MOTU (w/ Black Lion Audio mod) vs. RME?

[mustgroove]

I'm in the market for a portable firewire audio interface very soon, and I was totally leaning towards the just-announced RME Fireface 400, but I just got word from Black Lion Audio that they have a mod for the MOTU Ultralite...

So I'm interested to know whether or not people seem to think modded MOTU interfaces end up sounding better than stock RME interfaces... I'm aware that different MOTUs sound different, as do different RMEs, but I'm just looking for a general trend basically...

If anyone could chime in with their thoughts, that'd be rad! :D

[Mark Cattano]

I've got three words for you; RME, RME, RME!

Mark Cattano

Magneto Studios

P.S. I started off with an 896, and switched to a Multiface, and there's no comparison. The RME sounds fuller, wider, and has much more depth, IMHO.

[tamasdragon]

RME anyday anywhere!
Regards Tamas Dragon

[mustgroove]

Yeah I'm definitely an RME-head right now, but I've been hearing such glowing reports about the MOTU mods that I'm wondering if the mod ends up bringing the MOTU up to or even above the stock RME quality...

If anyone's in a position to do a comparison, please post!

[Velvetfreddy]

Yeah, I've been pretty curious as well.

[crypticglobe]

Definitely.... RME. No doubt.

[qtuner]

drivers drivers drivers. it seems rme has the best drivers.

[shanghaitang]

are the converter chips/signal path the same in the fireface 400 as the fireface 800?

[antiguru]

I dont have an RME to compare with, though I can say that the Black Lion mods made a big clearly audible (to me anyways, I think 96k vs 192k is night and day too so...) difference in my MOTU gear. The guy there is great to deal with too!

I reccomend it to anyone with MOTU gear without hesitation.

[CassidyGT]

Awaiting the return of my 828 from Black Lion Full upgrade - input stage and clock. Supposedly clock accuracy comparable to Apogee. Can't wait to get it.

[mustgroove]

*bump*

Just wanna bring this one up again... is there anyone who is in a position to do a direct comparison between a stock Fireface 400 and the modded (preamps and clock) Ultralite?

Anybody? :P

[brukkout]

Im about to get my Motu Ultralite modded by Black Lion.

I dont have an apogee of RME to compare to but I know the upgrade will be well worth it.

I'll let you all know my opinions after I get it back.

[bobx]

i went through the same dilemma a few months ago. i owned the motu 828mkII and was contemplating getting the mod or the fireface 800.

i decided not to get the mod because of warranty issues so i ended up going the RME route. i haven't regretted it one bit. the converters are a huge step above the motu. better seperation and detail especially when stacking tracks.

[Mark Cattano]

FWIW, a friend of mine got his 828 modded at Black Lion, it came back and he was really happy with the way it sounded, and then the unit started to F%&K up, and it turns out they put a bad clock in his unit. Time to ship the 'ole Motu back to Illinois, I guess.

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano

[beadgc23]

I have a Fireface 800, and I've nothing to add to the raves about the AD & DA converters - it's Great!

What really makes a difference between the FF800 and other boxes that I've used is the unconditional stability. Open & close apps & windows, use the network (including Wi-Fi which I rely on for communications while recording), change settings - it doesn't pop or click, hang or complain in any way, just goes on recording. It's also very fast in changing sample fc's or switching clocks. The drivers are solid, the TotalMix app is very dense but allows ultra-low latency monitoring while recording and several simultaneous headphone/sub mixes - it even allows multiple input sources to be mixed to disk tracks.

I'm working on a Mac, incidentally, I understand that Windows users have a lot more fiddlin' to do with Firewire interfaces but that's not an RME problem.

If you're looking for an audio interface it's worth checking out. If you're looking at another unit, do yourself a favor and make sure you're not instructed to disable networking ports - it's a very bad sign!

[feyshay]

I have a MOTU Traveler (in one work area) and a Fireface 800 in another area.
I've liked both interfaces. The Fireface driver has been more stable. I think the conversion and preamps are slightly better on the Fireface. Hard to tell really.

My problem with the Fireface 800 (and all RME products) is that you cannot properly ping them when using external effects (thru certain programs that allow delay measurement of external effects--like Cubase). The Traveler pinged external effects perfectly.

If external effect delay compensation is important to you, (You will not be able to do it manually and not get phase issues) then I'd go for the modded MOTU.

[uncovered]

anyone compared a BLA-modded MOTU 828mkII with an apogee ensemble? Will the mod put it in the same ball park?

[Jonkan]

No, but I have compared a BLA modded traveler to the ensemble directly, and if anything id say the motu sounded at least as good if not a bit better. Its probably not much of an concern as either piece sounds good.

The ensemble seems to be a good piece of gear, except i had some problems with whine on the headphone out, whereas the headphone amp in my traveler is dead quiet.

I like the fact that the ensemble seems to very well built though.

/J

[Tomiboy]

There is probably no point in modding Motu gear because the build quality is bloody shocking! It may sound good for a while but you are throwing your money away in the long run. I had two travelers and an 828 and all were complete rubbish. You will get no more than two years out of them if you are lucky and then things will start falling off.......Buy RME, Apogee or Lynx gear. dfegadMOTU = Not worth the steam from my pee!

[frans]

My BLA modded MOTU828mk1 is nearly 10 years old and running smooth.
The difference of the BLA mod was big enough so that the drummer of a rockabilly band noticed it. The clock is much more stable, but wants to be the master in the chain. I got a MUTEC thingy to extract the clock from the MOTU's SPDIF to distribute it, works like a charm. To top that I would need a MetricHalo or something in the ballpark.

In short: MOTU, if you got a mac.
RME if you got a mac or a windows machine.

[phas3d]

RME has the best converters, easy. Jitter is very low. It is a big difference. You'll hear more detail with it. The mic pres are clean sounding. Also, the drivers are rock solid.

[TurboJets]

FWIW, I recently participated in a listening test here between the prism orpheus and an RME FF800 and blindly chose the FF hands down. To qualify this, I have a BLA modded 1814FW and love love love the conversion. If my FW box ever breaks down, there's no doubt I will replace it with an RME box for all the reasons listed so far in this thread. Depth, separation, dimension, etc. it's all there with the FF clear as a bell to my ears.

[kozlikha]

BLA advertise signature conversion of 003R comparable to a $20k system. What are they on about, which system?

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by Tomiboy

There is probably no point in modding Motu gear because the build quality is bloody shocking! It may sound good for a while but you are throwing your money away in the long run. I had two travelers and an 828 and all were complete rubbish. You will get no more than two years out of them if you are lucky and then things will start falling off.......Buy RME, Apogee or Lynx gear. dfegadMOTU = Not worth the steam from my pee!

I've had a 2408mkII for 12 years. My HD192 for 6. They've been working without a single issue through dozens of location changes.

[mikeka]

Originally Posted by evangelista

I've had a 2408mkII for 12 years. My HD192 for 6. They've been working without a single issue through dozens of location changes.

Same experience here ... ~15yrs with a MOTU 1224 and 2408MKII (both now BLA modded) and I've had no issues all these years. They're better units than many out here think.

[wonderlover]

I've owned MOTU gear for almost 10 years...the same units.
I have an 828 and a 2408.

I'm considering the BLA mod on my 2408. I use my Focusrite ISA 428's for my AD conversion and go ADAT from the Focusrite's into my 2408.

Would the BLA mod even change anything on my 2408 if the 2408 isn't even doing the AD conversion? (the focusrite is doing the AD conversion).

Is the MOD worth it?

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

I've owned MOTU gear for almost 10 years...the same units.
I have an 828 and a 2408.

I'm considering the BLA mod on my 2408. I use my Focusrite ISA 428's for my AD conversion and go ADAT from the Focusrite's into my 2408.

Would the BLA mod even change anything on my 2408 if the 2408 isn't even doing the AD conversion? (the focusrite is doing the AD conversion).

Is the MOD worth it?

No, especially if you're clocking off the Focusrite. Save your money.

[wonderlover]

my MASTER clock is the Big Ben but all the AD stuff is coming off the focusrite ... but if the BLA isn't gonna change much (they say it WILL), I'm not gonna waste my dough.

[Capstan Cappy]

got my MOTU 24i/o modded by BL it was one of the last ones they did, and i bought their microclock MK2, i couldn't believe my ears, i also have a 2408 MK3 unmodded still to do, big big difference, deff worth it have the units about 4 years now (the 2408 mk3 later) and never had a problem with drivers or anything

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by wonderlover

my MASTER clock is the Big Ben but all the AD stuff is coming off the focusrite ... but if the BLA isn't gonna change much (they say it WILL), I'm not gonna waste my dough.

From my understanding, BL will mod the analog stage and AD/DA, sometimes the clock. You're not using the clock and AD, so that would be moot.

IF you're monitoring out of the MOTU DA, then yes, there should be a difference. Sorry, I should have been clearer.