LDC allrounder: Bock 195/Miktek CV4?

[Songwriter]

Hi,

Looking for an LDC in the $ 1000-1500 area, as a compliment to my Shure SM7B. I like the SM7B on my (male) vocals, but I also need a mic for acoustic guitar/drums overhead, and will try to limit it to one mic that I can also use on vocals next to the Shure (as opposed to any SDC/LDC combo). The mic will mainly go through a Pendulum Quartet.

It seems that Bock 195 and Miktek CV4 are good choices, and I´m leaning toward either one of those. Outsiders may be Neumann TLM 102, Neumann TLM 49, AKG 414, AT-4050 and the like, and honestly exact price is not paramount here. Cheap is good of course, but as long as I get a mic I´m happy with, I don´t care if it costs $ 750 or 1500. I´ve read plenty of threads here on GS, but would like to be further enlightened, both regarding the Bock 195/Miktek CV4 and any other mic you fellow sluts may think I rather should get. What is your experience with them?

What I want is a full-bodied, smooth, focused, revealing mic that is not brittle/sharp in the high frequencies.

Looking forward to your thoughts

[aaronsternke]

Both great choices!

I have owned the u195 for years, and I JUST purchased the CV4. The u195 is a great mic, sounds really really good on almost everything. It's a bright mic, but rarely harsh. To me it sounds very "u87-ish".

The CV4, by comparison, I'd say is a little smoother in the midrange, a hair more air on top, and bigger on the bottom. Sexier than the u195. I would suspect, althought I haven't tried it yet, that it may not work on as many sources so well... but it is fabulous on vocals.

Anyway I'd say you're on the right track! Can't go wrong with either mic.

Aaron

[Songwriter]

Thanks for posting! Great to hear from someone who has both and can compare them.

"U87-ish", that sounds good to me And universality is an important aspect here, so that kind of similarity is something that would pull me towards the 195.

A smoother midrange for the CV4, does that mean that the 195 is a little more present/strong in those mid frequencies? And that the CV4´s sound is a little more "scooped"/less punch in the mid frequencies? Or is it simply the character of the midrange that is different?

A thought I have regarding the CV4 is that since it´s a tube mic, and I have a tube channel, there might just be too much "tubeness" altogether with that combo.... making things wooly and unedgy, especially if the mids in the CV4 are not that strong. I don´t know though, because I´ve never owned a tube mic. Anyone with an opinion here, feel free to post

[aaronsternke]

Yeah, you described it well: The u195 is a little more present in the midrange, and the Miktek a bit more scooped. Sounds really good on my voice, as I am a bit nasally and can be harsh in the 2k range. So the the smooth / a little bit scooped mids of the Miktek are really nice for me personally.

I'm not sure if I'd be too nervous about being to "tube-y"... Tube mics don't necessarily all have a "sound", really. Just because it has a tube in it doesn't mean it's necessarily going to sound a certain way. So I wouldn't make the decision based on that alone.

Having said that, the 195 is really a safe bet for an "all-arounder"... You can't go wrong. The Miktek of course gives you multiple patters, which opens it up to a whole other world of uses. Again, they are somewhat similar to each other, but different enough that I decided to own them both.

Aaron

[aaronsternke]

Also hey, if you want to hear them side-by-side, I just did a rough shootout of a few mics, including both the u195 and the CV4. The results are here. The mics are as follows:

Mic A: Telefunken AK47
Mic B: ADK TT251
Mic C: Miktek CV4
Mic D: Beesneez Phelicity
Mic E: Soundelux u195

Check it out! Hope it's helpful.

Aaron

[halcyo]

I've never used the CV4 myself, but I have heard many recordings done with it and it sounds like it has more 'character' than the 195, which I USED to own. Whether that is good or bad for you is really a matter of application. I get the impression (very possibly mistakenly I suppose!) that the 195 is a lot more versatile, while the CV4 is maybe more impressive on lead vocals. That being said, the 195 is really very nice on vocals too.

All in all, I CAN personally vouch for the 195, and I think you will be absolutely overjoyed with it next to the Sm7b. The 195 is gonna give you smoothness and presence that will make your Sm7b sound like a very boring microphone!

I think you would be pretty happy with the 195/Quartet combo too. Too much tubeness IS something to consider in my opinion, although not a rule per se. The 195 is a great instrument mic- shiny, 'sit in a mix' acoustic guitars/present and realistic drum OH/ and a FABULOUS outside kick drum mic placed a couple feet in front with the Fat switch and Lo-cut switch enabled!

[Slikjmuzik]

Try the Advanced Audio CM47.

[chris@theblue]

I've been using u195,s for a 10 years daily use. . .
OH's Drums, Grand Piano, Ac Gtr's, Cello, Bass, Guitar Amp. . .
VO. . . Sax, Bone,
high spl. . . good sound.

thank you Dave

[Songwriter]

Interesting replies, I feel like I know twice as much about these mics now! Thanks everyone. (Haven´t heard about the Advanced Audio CM47, will look it up.)

Really cool that you have made those clips, Aaron! I have tried to listen to them, but apparently I need some additional software on my Mac, although I can´t seem to figure out exactly what (it doesn´t say!). Looking forward to a listen when I figure it out, and will probably send you a PM with my guesses on which is which. Good idea not to name them, because it makes it easier to listen with an open mind.

If my SM7B will sound boring next to the 195, that´s a great thing

I hear your opinions on the tubeness subject. Valuable with that input for me, as my experience here is limited. Probably difficult to generalize regarding this, also given that different tube gear will sound different.

I think the 195 is in the lead right now. Sounds like a mic that will really suit my purposes. And then I´ll se what those soundclips may reveal....

A good weekend to everybody!

[Slikjmuzik]

Yes, those Advanced Audio mics are stellar. The u47fet they make I'm sure is fine, but doesn't have a k47 capsule of a real 47fet, nor does it look like a 47 body. The u48 they make is a 3 polar pattern u47fet mic with a k47 capsule, locut filter and pad. It is outstanding. Has the u47 longbody look too. Check them out. www.aamicrophones.com

[Songwriter]

I guess I can´t quite seem to make up my mind... and I´m starting to wonder if the Bock is going to be too bright... (?) Will I get tired of it, when it´s my only condenser? Will my ears long for something more neutral?

Would it be safer to just go for a KSM 32 or something like that as my first quality LDC? Or would that just be boring...?

I´m thinking of going to audition some mics on Thursday, probably the Bock and maybe the KSM 32 (which has come more and more to my attention during my research).

Another thing I´m curious about here, is the transient response of these mics. They´re both supposed to be good for acoustic guitar, but I´m just wondering if the KSM may be a hint more useful here, being a 3/4 LDC (faster response = better for acoustic guitar?).

And any other outsider suggestion is still welcome.

[aaronsternke]

My first mic was the KSM44 (KSM32 with multiple patterns). I replaced it with the Bock195, and the Bock has been better on everything – except acoustic guitar. I still love the sound of the 195 on acoustic, but the KSM44 was better, maybe for the reasons you were mentioning. Seemed a little "closer" for lack of a better word.

The 195 on vocals though is DEFINITELY a cut above the KSM44/32. And the Miktek, to my ears / on my voice, is in another league on vocals (waaaaaaay nice).

[Songwriter]

Yes, I guess both the Bock and the Miktek simply seem a little more inspirational all over, from what I can gather before having heard them... something special, instead of just something that "never lets you down" (as many posters write about the KSM 32 (44)). But I can imagine that the KSMs might have a slight advantage on acoustic guitar. (As drums OH, both would probably be great for me, as my drumming is as amateurlike as can be, so a quality LDC would not be the limitation anyway...)

Maybe a best possible vocal sound is what I should concentrate on first after all. It´s probably difficult to get everything at once/in one mic. And whichever one I choose, the step up from recording acoustic guitar with the SM7B will probably be substantial anyhow, as that isn´t really an ideal type of mic for that...

[edva]

Originally Posted by aaronsternke

. The Miktek of course gives you multiple patters, which opens it up to a whole other world of uses.
Aaron

+ 1 on this.

[skythemusic]

Originally Posted by Slikjmuzik

Yes, those Advanced Audio mics are stellar. The u47fet they make I'm sure is fine, but doesn't have a k47 capsule of a real 47fet, nor does it look like a 47 body. The u48 they make is a 3 polar pattern u47fet mic with a k47 capsule, locut filter and pad. It is outstanding. Has the u47 longbody look too. Check them out. www.aamicrophones.com

I don't see mention of a U48???

[Songwriter]

Originally Posted by skythemusic

I don't see mention of a U48???

Me neither... anyway, these mics are not for sale in my country Norway, so it´s not possible to check out what they sound like.

Kind of difficult to know what to think of narrow/small brands the stores don´t have, unless someone has clips.

[shatz]

Originally Posted by aaronsternke

My first mic was the KSM44 (KSM32 with multiple patterns). I replaced it with the Bock195, and the Bock has been better on everything – except acoustic guitar. I still love the sound of the 195 on acoustic, but the KSM44 was better, maybe for the reasons you were mentioning. Seemed a little "closer" for lack of a better word.

The 195 on vocals though is DEFINITELY a cut above the KSM44/32. And the Miktek, to my ears / on my voice, is in another league on vocals (waaaaaaay nice).

Just to correct something here, the KSM 44 is NOT a 32 with multiple patterns. Two different mics. With that said I prefer the 32 on vocals and overheads over the 44.

[aaronsternke]

I stand corrected!

[Songwriter]

Was planning to go and check out the Bock and the Miktek today, but all the CV4s were sold out when I called... so will probably go there next week instead after they get a new delivery straight outta Nashville, and take both home. To return one of them....

[Johnkenn]

I continue to love my CV4 - and that's saying a lot considering what a gear ***** I am. There's not much to dislike about it. Try Peppersproshop.com - they usually have them in stock.

[Musiclab]

Other mics to consider are the Peluso or Pearman mics. the Pearman TM-1 is just a tiny bit over your budget at 1600.

[audiomidijace]

Originally Posted by aaronsternke

My first mic was the KSM44 (KSM32 with multiple patterns). I replaced it with the Bock195, and the Bock has been better on everything – except acoustic guitar. I still love the sound of the 195 on acoustic, but the KSM44 was better, maybe for the reasons you were mentioning. Seemed a little "closer" for lack of a better word.

The 195 on vocals though is DEFINITELY a cut above the KSM44/32. And the Miktek, to my ears / on my voice, is in another league on vocals (waaaaaaay nice).

I've been using the CV4 for over a year now. Personally I use it with an Aphex Channel mic pre. I get great results on acoustic guitar and vocals. The folks at Miktek are very nice and very helpful too.

[Songwriter]

Originally Posted by Johnkenn

I continue to love my CV4 - and that's saying a lot considering what a gear ***** I am. There's not much to dislike about it. Try Peppersproshop.com - they usually have them in stock.

Sounds good. I´m sure that´s a great shop, but I reside in Norway, and my local store seems to have quite competitive prices (so I would probably even save money on getting my mic there + that it could be nice to be able to bring it back easily if there is a problem in the future).

[Songwriter]

Originally Posted by Musiclab

Other mics to consider are the Peluso or Pearman mics. the Pearman TM-1 is just a tiny bit over your budget at 1600.

I keep reading about these here on GS. However, I don´t think they sell any of these brands in my country (and not Mojave either, which I also understand have some very good stuff).

Originally Posted by audiomidijace

I've been using the CV4 for over a year now. Personally I use it with an Aphex Channel mic pre. I get great results on acoustic guitar and vocals. The folks at Miktek are very nice and very helpful too.

Good to hear. Have you tried it on other sources?