how the fu** you achieve a great lows???

[analogica]

Im starting my mix from kick - bass - voice....

and I cant find a good kick sound, im mixing and re20 inside with drumagog...and it sounds OK but always agressive, I want somehitng softer but big and I dunno how to achieve it.

And im trying everything with kick and bass, If I make the "opposite curve" the bass seems to die, you can notice everything but not so lively.

Im listening to foals albums....where is that bass placed???
Foals - Olympic Airways (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube

Foals - Balloons (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube

I recorded a jazz bass though api-hamptone to auroras....so it can be possible???

And those kicks are always in your face, what should I do???....could u gimme a hand????

thanks

[jblacktnb]

Parallel compress wat ur looking for and add it into the original

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com

[basmartin]

Use distortion! Bass and kick seem to fit better in a mix with a little bit distortion.

[jblacktnb]

Originally Posted by basmartin

Use distortion! Bass and kick seem to fit better in a mix with a little bit distortion.

That works too...experiment. @basmartin I can get watever I want out of a sound by parallel compressing. But wit the low end...I can get distortion to work wit the bass line but wit the kick I can't achieve that...it always sounds like its too much n when I back off of it it seems like its not enough...wats ur opinion on that?

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com

[robertshaw]

big warm lows come from quality sources and quality gear, it should be automatic

[Unclenny]

I'm thinking that for a good kick/bass relationship you also need to look up there in the upper mids for some information.

The kick in that first sample seems to have some nice stuff going on up there.....gives room for the bass down lower.

[BLueROom]

Try finding the fundamentals of the kick/bass and mess with harmonics. Distortion, like the "Decapitator" are great as well. Mainly because they are adding in some of those harmonics for you.

[ARIEL]

I usually default to an AKG D112 and a Yamaha sub mic . If you are sampling your drums and replacing with D-gog try different velocities .You may find if you want it less in your face , a softer hit on the Kick will actually allow more low end . then mix in the sub Kick around 25 % . An Re 20 will be a bit more "boxy" sounding retro old school .Also experiment with close to the skin middle distance and at the hole . Also the refuse lowender plug in can add some mega sub . But you need a sub to hear what is going on with that . For DI I have switched to using a Reddi DI - has a great low end extension .

[santibanks]

place a big water bottle in front of the kick drum (the type that's used on those watertap machines—see the link for a pic), hang a little lavalier mic inside and blend with the other kick mics to taste.

[ARIEL]

After listening to your clips posted, sounds very cool , reminds me of my early band days back in 1988/1989 I think if your Kick is too aggresive , then pull it back from the skin a bit , again try different hits , hard , medium etc . Also type of Kick drum a skin makes a difference . I just sampled a Pearl master custom kick , with 5 different mics , in 3 positions with a BAE 1073 . With an Aquarian super Kick. I found there was a weird upper mid rang "plastick thwack tone" in all the mics and positions - So a Change of skin would be in order . It worked fine for slow stuff , but any thing double time or fast it really am out in a bad way . So dont get frustrated keep trying .

[edva]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

big warm lows come from quality sources and quality gear, it should be automatic

Exactly. This is one of those simple revelations that you finally hear, if you are fortunate or persistent enough.

[Melgueil]

Did you think it was going to be easy ? Getting the low end right is the biggest challenge engineers face. Ditto for controlling low frequency content via room treatment. Entire chapters have been written on it. That said - what is written here is true as well - the low end is typically where great gear shines - separates the men from the boys.

Good luck mate.
Cdlt

[j-uk]

Originally Posted by santibanks

place a big water bottle in front of the kick drum (the type that's used on those watertap machines—see the link for a pic), hang a little lavalier mic inside and blend with the other kick mics to taste.

Haha! Awesome, will try next time I record drums.

[robot gigante]

I am just going to post a dissenting opinion on the use of distortion, especially on kick. It will bring out harmonics and smear the kick, for sure, but this is not automatically a good thing. It may be in some cases. But in a lot of cases the right clean kick be it 808 or acoustic will cleanly punch through the mix and sit just right.


Try:
-Finding that right volume balance between the initial attack and the decay.
-Making sure there is no fighting or beating in the lows.
-Making room in the arrangement.
-Not only should the timing of when it hits be right, but the decay time should fit right into the pocket as well.
-If using samples, avoid ones where a gate or editing chops off the decay resulting in a pop or crunch sound at the end of the sample. Hate producers who ignore this!

My favorite mic for the sound you describe is the classic AKG D12. For me at least I don't have to do much if any processing at all if the kick is well tuned and well played.

[Bookerv12]

Alcohol!

[sage691]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

big warm lows come from quality sources and quality gear, it should be automatic

You left the biggest one out -- great ROOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just recently tracked drums in a room with high wood ceilings, wood floors, & MASSIVE 703 bass traps.

Just had a plain old 421 outside the BD hole and got the fattest, roundest, biggest BD sound I've ever heard in my own tracking endeavors. Plus, the room mic adds ALOT more thump to the BD sound as well. No EQ needed -- NADA !!!

If you get it right at the source that is 99.9% of the battle right there !

Sad that most around here will have to waste years learning all this stuff the HARD WAY !!!!

[Jim Williams]

All analog gear except storage. Bandwidth throughout the system is 2 hz, no phase shift. Some is direct coupled, even better in the lows.

Low end is easy, the top end is where everything falls apart so easily. It's much harder to get a smooth, yet detailed top end without any harshness or digititus.

I remember back in the early 1980s when the multitrack digital machines came out. For a while, everyone loved the low end. All those analog tape roll-offs went away for the first time. We loved it.

Times change?

[kooz]

Originally Posted by sage691

You left the biggest one out -- great ROOM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just recently tracked drums in a room with high wood ceilings, wood floors, & MASSIVE 703 bass traps.

Just had a plain old 421 outside the BD hole and got the fattest, roundest, biggest BD sound I've ever heard in my own tracking endeavors. Plus, the room mic adds ALOT more thump to the BD sound as well. No EQ needed -- NADA !!!

If you get it right at the source that is 99.9% of the battle right there !

Sad that most around here will have to waste years learning all this stuff the HARD WAY !!!!

you beat me to the punch with your room comment...it's been my experience the bigger the room, the bigger the low end. my theory is that those frequencies have the chance to develop rather than being reflected or whatever within their 1st wavelength, allowing you more latitude in mic placement...but i'm probably wrong. Yeah, wood is important too...

[ddageek]

It all starts with being able to hear the what's going on ! Can't get great bass unless you can hear it Monitors , monitors, monitors.

[DannyMac]

low frequency waveforms take space to develop, hence moving a mic with good low end detail further away from the drum will yield more "sub" to the kick.
Take this signal and key it from a mic on the beater (side-chain)

[basmartin]

Originally Posted by jblacktnb

That works too...experiment. @basmartin I can get watever I want out of a sound by parallel compressing. But wit the low end...I can get distortion to work wit the bass line but wit the kick I can't achieve that...it always sounds like its too much n when I back off of it it seems like its not enough...wats ur opinion on that?

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com

On the subject of low end on kicks, if the the rythm played by the kick is busy, I like to keep the kick from being too bass heavy, because it eats up a lot of space in the mix.

Getting a good kick sound is one of the hardest things in mixing I know of. I spend more time tweeking the kick than any other element in a mix.

I like to distort the kick until it cracks up and then back off a little bit. I don´t do that everytime, but it helps to make the sound a little bit more compact and controlled.

If the kick is recorded with a "dedicated" bass drum mic, like beta52 or D112, I takes a lot of tweaking for me to get satisfied with the sound, because those mics are so heavily eq:d with a lot of subs. Filtering those subs out often makes the sound "wimpy" and if I boost in an other area of the low freq:s, it´s get´s to woolly with no real punch. In that case, I dial out some lows and add distortion to regain some percepted punch. I´m trying out this plugin Audio tube/valve overdrive plugin (AU, VST) - Tube Amp - Voxengo So far, I think I like it and it´s FREE!

Lately I´ve been recording bass drum with a Beyer M88 just outside the hole of the front head and I find it much easier to mix. No more overhyped freqs... I´m not a fan of the inside kick mic sound,

[Suda Badri]

sounds like sidechaining like up to 45Hz or its like a maxxbass type effect but subtle

[uncle muscles]

low end is 75% feel, 25% how it interacts with everything else.

[Kiwi]

There are probably more people using subharmonic processing than those who admit it. Even in 'vintage' days, the trick of gating a sine wave with the kick was used more than once.
Room sound is nice, and quite possibly what you need, but it isn't necessary for a massive low end. Plenty of records made with 808 or 909 kicks and Moog bass should prove that point.

I've studied a lot of bass tones over the years, and Paul McCartney is one of my heros. I'm often amazed at the techniques he used to get the bass tones we accept as pretty normal now. Quite often he layered basses ... sometimes in octaves, sometimes a fat deep bass with a skinny sounding bass.

My point being that what you hear on any record, even ones that sound fairly normal, aren't necessarily a single kick and single bass. There can be multiple layers or psychoacoustic processing going on. These days, sample replacement gets a similar effect to what was achieved the hard way in the past.

IMO - you need to decide early one whether the deepest lows are going to come from the bass or the kick; and which one dominates the other. Most modern genres would have the kick bigger and lower than the bass, but that's not always the case. Knowing what the goal is certainly helps.

Ducking the bass with the kick, or at least compressing them together, quite often helps.

Ideally - your bass & kick will sound huge on tiny speakers. So they need to have information in several different frequency ranges. That's where harmonic distortion really helps - it creates new information where it's needed, higher up the spectrum.

I find that referencing some loops taken from CD's helps to get into the ball park and stops me tweaking things too far.

[Liquid360]

Great bass? This is where the art meets the science. Everyone does it differently, as long as it works. You have to "feel" it first, and then improvise to make it "work".

[NEWTON IN ORBIT]

I am mostly always cutting low end tracking to digital. Rarely do any major boosts.

Never seems to be a shortage. Just don't cut the good stuff.

john

[jblacktnb]

Originally Posted by Liquid360

Great bass? This is where the art meets the science. Everyone does it differently, as long as it works. You have to "feel" it first, and then improvise to make it "work".

Yea, I've seen a lot of gud technics in this thread...although I have my way I'm still gonna try out some of these tricks...thanx slutz!

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by NEWTON IN ORBIT

I am mostly always cutting low end tracking to digital. Rarely do any major boosts.

Never seems to be a shortage. Just don't cut the good stuff.

john

This is my experience as well. Though I'm talking about mix, I rarely eq while tracking.

[nrup]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

There are probably more people using subharmonic processing than those who admit it. Even in 'vintage' days, the trick of gating a sine wave with the kick was used more than once.
Room sound is nice, and quite possibly what you need, but it isn't necessary for a massive low end. Plenty of records made with 808 or 909 kicks and Moog bass should prove that point.

I've studied a lot of bass tones over the years, and Paul McCartney is one of my heros. I'm often amazed at the techniques he used to get the bass tones we accept as pretty normal now. Quite often he layered basses ... sometimes in octaves, sometimes a fat deep bass with a skinny sounding bass.

My point being that what you hear on any record, even ones that sound fairly normal, aren't necessarily a single kick and single bass. There can be multiple layers or psychoacoustic processing going on. These days, sample replacement gets a similar effect to what was achieved the hard way in the past.

IMO - you need to decide early one whether the deepest lows are going to come from the bass or the kick; and which one dominates the other. Most modern genres would have the kick bigger and lower than the bass, but that's not always the case. Knowing what the goal is certainly helps.

Ducking the bass with the kick, or at least compressing them together, quite often helps.

Ideally - your bass & kick will sound huge on tiny speakers. So they need to have information in several different frequency ranges. That's where harmonic distortion really helps - it creates new information where it's needed, higher up the spectrum.

I find that referencing some loops taken from CD's helps to get into the ball park and stops me tweaking things too far.

[peepee]

Originally Posted by robertshaw

big warm lows come from quality sources and quality gear, it should be automatic

It's actually as simple as that. Good gear, a good room.