Cheaper mics you prefer over the Neumann U87?

[grhuntuk]

Really?

AKG 414. Fantastic mic. You can purchase a matched pair for almost half the price of a 87.

However I have three 87's, and thats my go to for everyfink.

[JoRillo]

You'll probably hear every mic over $400 and under $1.5k. lol

There's a lot of U87 fans, and a lot of haters. I have unfortunately never had the please of using one, heard one in use, but not for singing, just a teachers demonstration. :(

[jaredfmansfield]

I have this "A/B" Cd by Steve Carr. Here is a A/B Comparison of a Neumann U87 and a Shure SM58.14 Neumann U87 Shure Sm58, No EQ Compensation by JaredMansfield on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

From the beginning of the track its the U87, then where it repeats is the 58. Then again the 87 when she sings solo, then the repeat is the 58.

[asdfdsa]

Originally Posted by jaredfmansfield

I have this "A/B" Cd by Steve Carr. Here is a A/B Comparison of a Neumann U87 and a Shure SM58.14 Neumann U87 Shure Sm58, No EQ Compensation by JaredMansfield on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Cool thanks for posting, you can definitely hear the difference, do you happen to know any details of the chain?

[hasbeen]

That was excellent! Thanks for the post.

[Beyersound]

Telefunken AK-47 II. More mid forward and less sibillant, with a healthy presence and openess. Have mixed a bunch of vocal and acoustic guitar tracks using one. Takes EQ well, and never seems to need much. Outstanding mic for well under $2000.

[sonic dogg]

Originally Posted by asdfdsa

Cool thanks for posting, you can definitely hear the difference, do you happen to know any details of the chain?

My guess is the parts that have a bit more bass on them are the 58 and the other parts arent.

Theres a touch more articulation in a couple of those examples. Those would be the 87.

I have both. As well as few 'other' mics and have spent a lot of hours with even more. I ALWAYS put the 87 up in case its perfect. Its not always 'perfect' but when it is, nothing sounds better. I really dont get the "better than an 87" thought process. "Better" is a very subjective point of view and one that cant really be qualified in a way that could clearly be one way or the other. Since tone is limited to the listener and their own particular hearing abilities, I can't see any test being valid about "better". I'll easily agree to 'different' or a 'preferred choice' but "better" isn't the way I personally think about gear. Cheaper is good. A better value might even be a provable commodity.

With the plethora of mic choices these days its no wonder that many people end up with this comparison. Everybody seems to want the U87 sound though a lot less want to pay for it. I suppose that this is some sort of justification for not ponying up for the high bar. I certainly dont know. They're all just tools with different flavors to me. I will say that my U87 is my favorite U87 I've ever had the pleasure of working with. And thats exactly why I bought it.

[jaredfmansfield]

Originally Posted by asdfdsa

Cool thanks for posting, you can definitely hear the difference, do you happen to know any details of the chain?

That I don't know. But as far as the A/B cd is concerned, every single detail matters when A/B.

Not sure why more details weren't given on that track.

The most that was there was "No EQ Compensation"

[lectric]

I have 3 beyers M69 (n) and are very good for vocals.

[Lee Cardan]

I've got a pair of Gefell MV692 + UM70 mics that reputably rival the U87 very respectfully.
I haven't spent enough time with either to comment myself though

so far so good is what I'll say

[6th_World]

I'm not a hater of u87, but there are some cheaper models (but not too cheap) with fine sound quality and I could point 'em as competitors... Depends on the sources of course, but I suggest you should check out brauner phanthera and valvet models, gefell umt 70s, violet amethyst vintage..

[skybluerental]

Neumann KM86 or Gefell UM70.

Sony C38B or C48.

Coles 4038.

i would probably rather use an old AKG 414 EB or B ULS as well.

[ddageek]

SM7b
Gefell um70
Soundelux 195
C414
Sony c48
RE20
RE2000
Beesneez Arabella GT
Nevaton mc416
AEA r84
MCE 834
Lawson 47fet

All are cheaper than an 87 and have been picked over the 87 at least once .

[jaredfmansfield]

Originally Posted by sonic dogg

My guess is the parts that have a bit more bass on them are the 58 and the other parts arent.

Theres a touch more articulation in a couple of those examples. Those would be the 87.

Right On.

You said it here "A touch more articulation" In just this one recording, is the touch more of articulation worth the $3,900.00 more than the $100 mic?

If there was EQ Compensation, bringing the sparkle out from the 58 do you think it could match up in this recording?

[asdfdsa]

What do the Gefell UM70's go for (used)? I can't find any on the bay.

Digging the replies btw.

[AudioSoundzz]

M Audio Sputnik. Just amazing sounding on many vocals, guitar, percussion. Smooth and Rich and Detailed with no high end fizz. Price just went up to $1000.00 but old price is still available.

[sonic dogg]

Originally Posted by jaredfmansfield

Right On.

You said it here "A touch more articulation" In just this one recording, is the touch more of articulation worth the $3,900.00 more than the $100 mic?

If there was EQ Compensation, bringing the sparkle out from the 58 do you think it could match up in this recording?

In a multitude of layered tracks , yes.

My point was this. All of these comparisons always seem to point to the U87 as the ONE to be compared against. I think maybe its the price thats causing this. A new U87ai is an expensive mic. Its always been a relatively expensive mic. Its certainly a mic that once you buy one, theres a large likelihood you'll keep it forever. Maybe you'll buy three $1500 mics looking for that ONE that does it all.

I try not to sell mics any longer. I did in the past and now it haunts me with the pieces I moved away from.

And yes to the first part. I think that the 58 can get very close in quality to the U87 in this example. I've always been one of those people that think a great sounding record can be made with a bag full of 57/58s as long as the rest of the chain is good quality.

I still think its odd that the U87 has been picked as the pinnacle to shoot out with.

[uncle duncan]

I had a U87ai here for a short while. What it seems to do that the other mics mentioned in this thread don't do is present a very balanced version of the source, with a full midrange and beefy low end. The frequency response graph shows it flat up to about 6K, with a small peak at 9k-10k. Because of this relatively neutral response, it's easy to EQ, and works okay on a lot of sources. The other mics mentioned all have peaks and valleys in the response curve, which means they would be less neutral, perhaps sounding better on one source, worse on another source.

The concept noobs don't seem to get is that a mic is like an EQ device. Whatever mic you choose is imparting its own built-in EQ curve on the source. (The frequency response graph on the manufacturer's website, or at recordinghacks.com shows the EQ curve.) If this EQ curve happens to bring up an unpleasant aspect of the source - say too much 3k (a "hard" frequency) or too much 6k (the beginning of the sibilance range) it's very difficult to "erase" those frequencies after the source has been recorded. The flip side is finding a mic that accentuates the good parts of the source. The singer puts on the phones, sings a couple of lines, and is so inspired, they do an amazing take that probably wouldn't have happened on a mic less suited to their voice. That's the payoff for matching the right mic to a source, and that's the reason a good studio will do a vocal mic shootout on a new client (or put up their trusty U87 and hope for the best.)

The closest I got to a U87 with a cheap mic is a mxl V67g modded by JJ Audio. I have tried other mic mods in the same price range, but the modded V67g just seems to have the "weight" that puts it in the U87 ballpark. The modded V67g (and U87) is considered boring by some people, and I don't use it for everything, but when I want a natural sound on a singer in the C&W or folk genre, it's my go-to mic. I also use it for VO and books on tape. Several of my "better" mics - a 1980's vintage 414eb, Gefell MT71s, several $1k boutique tube mics - lack the fatness of the V67g/U87 but work better on sources that would be too boring sounding on a neutral mic. (The ADK S7b and Hamburg IIau both have a similar vibe to the U87. Between these two, the S7b is a little warmer, the HB IIau a little more hyped in the mids and a little more "presency".)

[PaulMac]

the U87 doesn't make sources sound natural to me, therefore there are plenty of mics that do this better. My favourite is the AKG C414B-XLS.
a lot of people like the U87 on acoustic guitar - where as it sounds thin to me and the top end isn't to my taste. On vocals I'd say it has it's purpose although it doesn't take compression as well as I'd like on a vocal mic... when using one with a Neve VR onboard pre (which usually sounds good) I had to de-ess more than twice as I would with something like a Blue Babybottle, which is one of my favourite vocal mics if the vocal's sitting in a "big" mix e.g. electric guitars, bass and drums.
My favourite all-round Neumanns are the KM84 and TLM193 and I own them both. I'll probably be testing more out soon to add the the list but the U87, vintage or modern, probably wont be one of them. I'm yet to hear it on piano and plenty of other sources, though.

[Adlen]

Virtually everything. I really don't like it!

AKG C2000B
Oktava MK219
AKG C414 B-ULS

To name a few which, for me, blow the U87 out of the water. Super-cheap in comparison too.

[djanogil]

Beyer mc834, Amazing flat freq response, natural sounding , though I didn't a/b'd with a u87. Great mic!

[UnDeFiNeD]

The u87 is to mics what the SSL sound is to consoles. Very polyvalent, clean without being boring, and safe as a go-to option.

I like it on a lot of sources. drum room, voice over, rap, male vocals usually shine in a good way with this. Not so special on the more dirty work.
Overall sitting good in the mix.

Is the price worth it? Well, that depends what you do.

For the home studio/(private) project studio I would say no. Go out and look for comparable lowered price alternatives.

For the commercial studio? Yes! what? You don't have one?
It's a mic any serious engineer knows what to expect from, so when external engineers or producers come by your facility, they don't have to spend costly hours trying out your obscure mic collection, instead they set it up and know what it will sound like.
It creates confidence with your clients, just like the PT HD system, or a butload of 57's, or a roll a gaffa tape.

It's easy to just compare prices and shootouts and determine that there are cheaper options, but thats not taking into account other factors like the ones stated above.
And in the end, it looks good on your gearlist

Alex

[cjogo]

U 89

[binarymilton]

sony c38b

[Radiogal]

Originally Posted by yotonic

Depending on what you pay for a new 87 all of the ADK Custom Shop high end mics beat it, they are very nice mics and I have shot them all out (47, 67, 251, c12) against an 87.

I second that. Same experience here!

[rogerbrain]

you don't have to have a U87 but if you can afford one they are pretty nice

for a rod steward type male or husky female voice ..414 does just fine

screaming tenor - re20 or sm7

belt it out rocker - AT4060 or 4050 do a very good job

there is no reason to get one other than nothing else I have sounds like one and the sound is really good and it works for a lot of things

[capnreverb]

Originally Posted by ddageek

RE2000

Did not know there was anyone else in that fan club but me!

[jimmyboy7]

Blue Kiwi, blind A/B, picked the Kiwi try it, you will like it

[Diegel]

Imo there are many situations where there isn't a better mic on the planet for the job the an original u87. And some situations where there are many mics better for the job. Like on my voice a shure sm7 which I bought for $200 sounds much better on me than a u87. Yet on a female singer I recorded we tried about 20 mics including u47, u67, 251s, c12, blue, coles, audio technica, shure etc... and the u87 was just the money.