Hi everyone. This may well be inthe wrong section. If this is the case i aplologise.
A friend and I perform as an acoustic duo 2 or 3 times a week. I play acoustic guitar and sing, he plays bass guitar and provides harmonies. we play sat down so that i can play a stomp box to provide a beat for people to dance to. This has worked perfectly for some time. We have played a few gigs lately standing up rather than sitting down and have really enjoyed it and we feel we perform better. Unfortunatley, Playing the stomp box is really hard work while standing and we have to dismiss it.
We really miss the percussive element and I was wondering if i could buy a drum machine (alesis sr-16), program a four to the floor kick drum pattern and just start the kick drum sound by pressing a start/stop pedal. I could stop and start the pattern whenever i wanted throught the songs and i wouldn't be shattered after every gig from conatantly stomping my foot!! The Alesis allowes me to set different tempo's for the different songs by using the tap tempo function. this would mean only needing 1 or 2 programmed kick drum patterns (for the different time signatures) as i could just change the tempo for each song rather then having to program a different beat for every song.
I was wondering if anyone else performs this way or has any suggestions. I normally hate backing tracks but thought if it was just a simple, and rather subtle kick drum sound i might get away with it!
Keep it organic- either a cajon with a kick pedal or a small kick drum (ala the Avett Brothers). Or some transducers taped to the stage- they'll pick up your stomp.
one way have your cake and keep it organic too would be to get a looper
pound on the wood of your acoustic for a few bars and loop that
or sit for a minute at your stomp box, get it going and then stand up to play
it will give you whatever rhythm you set, it will go indefinitely just like a drum machine, but it won't be as electronic sounding
you could overlay string scratches, mouth percussion, even choral licks
You could just use it for a beat or get as fancy with it as you want, a decent looper should let you drop parts in and out, etc
the best part is, the audience gets to see you put it together in real time
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“What you ask about is music. What you like is sound. Now music and sound are akin, but they are not the same.”
— Confucius
one way have your cake and keep it organic too would be to get a looper
pound on the wood of your acoustic for a few bars and loop that
or sit for a minute at your stomp box, get it going and then stand up to play
it will give you whatever rhythm you set, it will go indefinitely just like a drum machine, but it won't be as electronic sounding
you could overlay string scratches, mouth percussion, even choral licks
You could just use it for a beat or get as fancy with it as you want, a decent looper should let you drop parts in and out, etc
the best part is, the audience gets to see you put it together in real time
I had thought about a looper pedal but im still unsure as to whether or not you can record a loop before a song starts ( in my case, record a bass drum sound on my guitar like you said) and recall it later when needed. I was of the impression that once you stop recording a short loop it plays automatically after you stop it???.......
i din't want to layer things up in a looper fashion. just wanted to start a kick drum pattern at different times in songs.
I have never used a looper pedal so forgive my rather stupid questions.
If you want people to dance, you need a constant beat. I have an SR18 (I bought my first Alesis drum machine in the 1980's, and I owned an SR16 when they first came out in, from memory, 1990). The sounds in the SR18 are much better, and it runs on batteries - i'm not so keen on the SR16, although it was a classic that has lasted a ridiculously long time in the market.
The Alesis drum machines are good for on-the-fly stuff with foot switches, because you can Stop/Start and switch between A and B patterns, and it puts in the fills, intro, outro etc. This is important because when people dance, you may wish to extend a song longer than normal - or shorten it as the case may be.
If you would rather work to pre-worked out arrangements, you can do that. But then you may as well look at using audio. You could use organic audio recordings - either make your own loops, or buy commercial ones.
It might be worth investigating loopers, which might give you the best of both worlds. I haven't gone there (yet) but i've often thought about it.
You can use loopers just as playback devices. It's sort of cool to make your own loops on stage - but I think it's a gimmick that many people are doing, and once you've seen it you've seen it. If people want to dance, they don't care how clever you are. Just give them a beat they can groove to.
I was of the impression that once you stop recording a short loop it plays automatically after you stop it???......
the looper can be set to a tempo and a click or flashing light can let you lock in. You slap out your rhythm and when you get a good one and step on a pedal, it is 'captured'
.
Quote:
i din't want to layer things up in a looper fashion. just wanted to start a kick drum pattern at different times in songs.
Most loopers can mute the loop or mute elements of the loop and you should be able to punch it back in. It should allow you to re-establish the downbeat.
Most of the loopers I have seen "forget" their loops when they are shut off. I have a friend who uses a laptop, Logic, and some MIDI pedals to do his looping show, so he can save old loops in the software if he wants to, but he never does.
You don't HAVE to use it to layer stuff. It sounds like maybe a basic drum machine is more suitable to what you want to do.
Personally I have a built-in negative reaction to that duo-with-a-drum-machine thing because I associate it with Lounge music. But as a drummer I certainly can understand the difficulty of working a pedal standing up.
the looper can be set to a tempo and a click or flashing light can let you lock in. You slap out your rhythm and when you get a good one and step on a pedal, it is 'captured'
.
Most loopers can mute the loop or mute elements of the loop and you should be able to punch it back in. It should allow you to re-establish the downbeat.
Most of the loopers I have seen "forget" their loops when they are shut off. I have a friend who uses a laptop, Logic, and some MIDI pedals to do his looping show, so he can save old loops in the software if he wants to, but he never does.
You don't HAVE to use it to layer stuff. It sounds like maybe a basic drum machine is more suitable to what you want to do.
Personally I have a built-in negative reaction to that duo-with-a-drum-machine thing because I associate it with Lounge music. But as a drummer I certainly can understand the difficulty of working a pedal standing up.
It is a very similar beast yes. As i have said, i dont like drum machines either and i would never use one to create a full drum kit sound. we are just thinking of ways to get a steady kick drum sound without having to constantly play. I have tried it with an actual kick drum but still find this quite hard. It sounds daft but i thought i could hide the drum machine and just set the stop/start pedal up! the kick drum sound only needs to be very subtle. not as prominent as a modern kick drum.
Really appreciate the help folks. I guess i have some decisions to make!
regarding the self looping technique, a la the KT example:
I am always impressed with this, I have a friend who performs locally like
this. He does it very well, and it's fun to watch.
And yet, this is one of the modern performing trends that annoys me the most.
It highlights the era of musicians in bedrooms, creating in a bubble.
I mean, is ensemble performing *really* that played out, that we all have to
show off how tech savvy we are by cloning ourselves live onstage with
looper pedals...?
Get a drummer!
Modern alt-blues duos... get a bass player! ARGGHHH
regarding the self looping technique, a la the KT example:
I am always impressed with this, I have a friend who performs locally like
this. He does it very well, and it's fun to watch.
And yet, this is one of the modern performing trends that annoys me the most.
It highlights the era of musicians in bedrooms, creating in a bubble.
I mean, is ensemble performing *really* that played out, that we all have to
show off how tech savvy we are by cloning ourselves live onstage with
looper pedals...?
Get a drummer!
Modern alt-blues duos... get a bass player! ARGGHHH
sorry, rant over
We do have a drummer that joins us when he can but we play as a duo more often than not. Drummer means less money for my friend and I. I dont mind admitting that we do these gigs for the money so that we can fund other projects we have going on.
I agree with you on the looper pedal. It has become far to fasionable and extreemly predictable. As for modern alt-blues duos (i assume you mean The Black keys, White Stripes, left lane Cruiser etc) offending you by having no bass player, chill out, dont listen to them. There are lots more annoying and worrying things happening in the music industry!!!!
Thank you everyone for their input. Still not sure which option to take!!!
You know what could be really cool ... a robot foot that actually played a kick drum. This could make a good school project in robotics ... a simple solenoid arrangment could hit the drum skin directly (no need for a pedal). This could be triggered with midi - probably an iPhone or iPad.
Actually - you could probably simply mount a speaker driver into a kick drum and send an audio impulse into the drum. Maybe use an 808 or 909 sample, tuned and filtered to the resonant frequency of the drum ... the drum would provide the color and a bit of natural variation.
How about some audience participation? I remember a music teacher from many years ago who had a bunch of unual percussive devices. E.g. a boot filled with concrete, on a stick. This could be used to stomp on the floor - get a volunteer who can keep time. He also had a toilet seat and a few other gimmicks ... lots of fun.
r...
And yet, this is one of the modern performing trends that annoys me the most.
It highlights the era of musicians in bedrooms, creating in a bubble.
I mean, is ensemble performing *really* that played out, that we all have to
show off how tech savvy we are by cloning ourselves live onstage with
looper pedals...?
Get a drummer!
Modern alt-blues duos... get a bass player! ARGGHHH
I think this is far more an example of people forced into a certain position by economics than a widespread desire to 'clone oneself' or be trendy and techy.
There are fewer and fewer clubs, paying less and less money for "bands". I know people who are semi-famous, have records out, a following, a 'name' if you will, who would love to have a band, but can't book a tour that can support it. They do a solo or duo act - an 'unplugged' version of their record - because the logistics of a tour are prohibitive.
Drummers and bassists come to look like "mouths to feed". I am not condoning this, in fact, I am a drummer myself, and these days I think, I should have learned piano or guitar so I could get those solo or duo gigs.
regarding the self looping technique, a la the KT example:
I am always impressed with this, I have a friend who performs locally like
this. He does it very well, and it's fun to watch.
And yet, this is one of the modern performing trends that annoys me the most.
It highlights the era of musicians in bedrooms, creating in a bubble.
I mean, is ensemble performing *really* that played out, that we all have to
show off how tech savvy we are by cloning ourselves live onstage with
looper pedals...?
Get a drummer!
Modern alt-blues duos... get a bass player! ARGGHHH
sorry, rant over
I totally hear where you are coming from... and yet, I perform live with a looper pedal! I like it because I can still play out solo (only having to worry about whether I'M on time) and still "spice" it up every once in a while with some harmonies or a second guitar part. That being said, here some of my looper ground rules:
1. Don't use it for EVERY song.
2. Don't use it throughout the WHOLE song that you use it in.
3. Don't loop 400 times until your sound becomes unrecognizable mush.
4. If you have to stand and stare at your pedal in deep concentration during your song, you probably should practice more.
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