Ok, I know this question has been done to death but that is just the reason why I can't seem to make a decison based on past threads. Too many options and opinions with no one coming back and saying, "I bought what you said an loved it...thanks".
I want to record my Acoustic Guitars at home and I'm not digging my current options. I have a True P-Solo preamp, and SM-57 and MXL V67 (I'm a low budget type). I'm also working on some API style preamps that, in testing, made the 57 sound pretty good at the 12th fret, but finishing that project is still weeks off.
I guess I'm thinking that I'd like to have an SDC option to play with and I'm not sure if a) I should go with low or mid budget option and b) if I should spring for a pair.... I'd set the budget at under $500 regardless.
I'm considering a pair of Rode NT5's or AT4041s based on other threads. I'm not apposed to the MXL or even cheaper options if someone has a great experence to share. Or do I go for a single mic with the full budget??? Oh, and I hate my room (recording in an apartment) so I don't think Omnis are for me...
This is for my own music and if I write acoustic, it's out in front and I'm attracted to stereo possibilities. My guitars are an Ovation Celebrity and A Carvin Cobalt in Mohagany.
Anyone want to through some better ideas out there?
Oktava MK-012 pretty much owns that price range, and if you get the multiple capsule versions I have to say their omni capsule is one of the nicest around too.
War
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The 4041 is one of the most honest mics you'll find. No hype, no additives of any kind. A large true to life soundfield and great sensitivity for the different styles of picking you'll be doing on the acoustic. Also a very very quiet, low self handling noise mic. Get the matched pair. They will work really well with the True Systems pre. and when you get finished with your API project they'll sound great on that.
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I've used the 57 for acoustic before and even tho it works, i just never liked the sound I got before moving to an SDC. For cheap, I've used an M-Audio Pulsar II with great results. Usually paired with a Fathead II. It also greatly depends on the guitar too. I've recorded some crap acoustic guitars before and got crap. Duh! But using the same configuration with a good Gibson or even a Martin (watch out for those overtones) I've captured some great sounds with those two mics.
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For a low ender budget, the Shure PG-81 is a pretty decent SDC. At 125 bucks, I consider it a great value that sounds very good at the 12th fret for detailed acoustic guitar work. I usually blend with an LDC for body/room in my set up, but I used to run it by itself live with very good results (runs on phantom power or a single AA battery for non-phantom boards and gear). Definitely one I would replace if something happened to the one I have.
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What do you mean "make it cut through the mix"? I've been trying all afternoon to bury it with a stake through it's heart!
Do you have a large diaphragm condenser already? If you do, then maybe just buy one sdc mic and use the two in tandem; or decide which one is better for certain styles.
The idea of "matched" pairs is great, but in practice you can make do with an SDC, an LDC, and a little bit of patience to avoid phasing issues. Sometimes you'll just use an SDC or LDC by itself and that will be fine. If you want a stereo image, it's usually cooler just to play the same part twice and pan it anyway. Obviously, this is a matter of taste and budget, but that's my two cents.
I've got an AT 4051 (not a or b) that I paid $225 for and I've never looked back. Plus, it sounds good on female backup vocals, tambourine, and all sorts of other stuff without the harsh high end. Don't cheap out too much, otherwise you'll waist the one thing that you still have plenty of - time.
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The Shure SM81, and the MXL 604 are great mics for acustic gitarr, like i have being saying in some other threads, the MXL 604 is a very under rated mic and sounds great. The Shure SM81, is a clasic, no need of presentation.
I'm another huge fan of a pair of MC-012/MK-012s on acoustic. It's my favorite combination in that price range. just a spaced pair pointed at the body and at the 12th fret. But you better be recording a nice sounding guitar, or the recording will be crappy no matter what mics you're using.
Oktava MK-012 pretty much owns that price range, and if you get the multiple capsule versions I have to say their omni capsule is one of the nicest around too.
War
That must be a push towards the "get one SDC for " option, they look to be more than half my budget as a single. Do you think there are more SDC samples for the clip-a-lator in the future?
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The 4041 is one of the most honest mics you'll find. No hype, no additives of any kind. A large true to life soundfield and great sensitivity for the different styles of picking you'll be doing on the acoustic. Also a very very quiet, low self handling noise mic. Get the matched pair. They will work really well with the True Systems pre. and when you get finished with your API project they'll sound great on that.
Great input, thank you. If you're right then it certainly fits the bill for me.
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I've used an M-Audio Pulsar II with great results.
I haven't looked at that one yet, it seems to fit the budget and I've never been troubled by an MA product. I'll look into it.
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For a low ender budget, the Shure PG-81 is a pretty decent SDC. At 125 bucks
Another one! I'll check this one out too.
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Do you have a large diaphragm condenser already?
Yes, the MXL V69 is an LDC.... nothing to right home about but it works sometimes. It's not exactly a "true" mic, i'm afraid and I can practically hear my myself breathing when I play softly - hence the desire for a more localized too.
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The idea of "matched" pairs is great, but in practice you can make do with an SDC, an LDC, and a little bit of patience
Good advice
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If you want a stereo image, it's usually cooler just to play the same part twice and pan it anyway.
I cane never seem to pull that off well enough for my liking without comping the track. Even though,I'd like to tread in to the stereo mic'd mono source world a bit and see what I learn.
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the MXL 604 is a very under rated mic and sounds great. The Shure SM81, is a clasic, no need of presentation
I'm glad to hear that, the MXL was on my list, too. Lot's of debate around this and it's sister the 603. the SM81 I see described as honest like the 4041, but it's a bit too much if a want to spring for a pair.
Thanks everyone. If anything else comes to mind I'll be back.
A matched pair of Behringer C-2's might be the ticket.
C2s are a very special mic - ideal for certain situations. For example, if I found some gnomes burrowing in my garden, and all I had to defend my shrubbery was a pile of stones and some C2s, I'd lob the C2s at them to save wasting good stones. They really are that good.
It can be hard to find inexpensive mics which have greater value for recording than they do as ordnance. Two that stand out are the Oktava Mk012, ADK A6. Nice mics, both very good on acoustic guitar.
Kel HM-3C might be worth a look as well. Don't know enough about it but I have heard some clips which made me want to find out more.
On a tight budget I'd check out the oktava's as War said before..
Or a pair of shure ksm137 (used) could be found for less than 500..
Or try to find an Oktava used and buy a Violet Design Black Knight LDC, sounds really great on a lot of sources, like an ac gtr..
I'd buy the max quality pieces avalaible within your budget.
Just my 0.02$,
Bests,
Cheu
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The 012 pairs so nicely with a 4033 in stereo config's to my ears. And don't shy away from omni just because of your room. For mic'ing an AC guitar in mono (even in a crappy room), the 012 w/omni is fantastic imo.
The 4041 is so detailed it's almost freakish. A little bright but never brittle if amp'd by a competent pre like your p-solo and your eventual api thing.
To me the sm81 has always been too plain for instruments. Just sort of "meh". But a killer mic for reamping with, especially in a reverb chamber. They can handle sp's like nobody's biznass and have super-proper freq response for the job.
Line Audio CM3 - PM me as I have samples of acoustic guitars recorded with it... working on posting some online just haven't had the time yet. These little swedish mics will give you schoeps-like linearity at a budget price.
C2s are a very special mic - ideal for certain situations. For example, if I found some gnomes burrowing in my garden, and all I had to defend my shrubbery was a pile of stones and some C2s, I'd lob the C2s at them to save wasting good stones. They really are that good...
I recorded myself speaking into a couple of matched C-2's once...when I played it back I sounded exactly like a room full crazy people trying to chainsaw their way out of a forest.
i have a decent budget LDC (RODE K2) and I pair it up with a Shure SM-81 which is a SDC that gives you that iconic 70's acoustic guitar sound. (it will cut nicely in a dense mix)
The sm-81 is positioned in tight at the 12th fret, and I have the LDC positioned about a foot back from the bridge, in cardiod, pointing back across the body to the 12th fret. This picks up the full range of the acoustic sound. Small position changes can bring in more boom, so take you time. Adjust a bit for phase if neccessary, hit record.
c2s are a very special mic - ideal for certain situations. For example, if i found some gnomes burrowing in my garden, and all i had to defend my shrubbery was a pile of stones and some c2s, i'd lob the c2s at them to save wasting good stones. They really are that good.
That must be a push towards the "get one SDC for " option, they look to be more than half my budget as a single. Do you think there are more SDC samples for the clip-a-lator in the future?
Well at the time of this writing they are $75 above your budget for a cardioid pair.
We are always adding mics to the Clipalator, I have 12 more getting uploaded tonight. In the SDC realm we are adding the CAD e70 and the Beyerdynamic MC 930 on overheads and acoustic guitars.
War
PS: The Kel HM3C is another great suggestion, and lives in the very natural sounding realm.
Oh ya? I must have been looking at the wrong model/package.
Right now I think I'm leaning twards the at 4041 because I like reputation for "honesty" and its a good name and in budget. Right now I need to get some cash so I'm selling off the lesser used stuff. That gives me another week or to decide.
I've got an MXL 991 that I use alot on acoustic guitar with great results. I usually put it at the 12th fret and then pair it with a 414 B-ULS or AT 4050 on the body. I've used it by itself and gotten good results along with many compliments on the guitar sound. Around $30-$40 bucks on ebay, you can't go wrong. If you don't like it, you still have most of your budget to go a different direction.
C2s are a very special mic - ideal for certain situations. For example, if I found some gnomes burrowing in my garden, and all I had to defend my shrubbery was a pile of stones and some C2s, I'd lob the C2s at them to save wasting good stones. They really are that good.
It can be hard to find inexpensive mics which have greater value for recording than they do as ordnance.
I'm considering a pair of Rode NT5's or AT4041s based on other threads. I'm not apposed to the MXL or even cheaper options if someone has a great experence to share. Or do I go for a single mic with the full budget???
Brian
The Rode NT5's are a bit scooped, but can sound nice on the right acoustic. The top comes through bright but not excessively so. The MXL SDC's are brighter on the top, but usable (again on the right acoustic). BTW, just about all of the SDC models from MXL are essentially the same - don't be fooled (the 991, 551 and the 603 are different in name only!).
The problem with this question is that the "right answer" is so depenent on your guitar. I have a Larrivee OM 03 (which is a bright guitar with lots of sparkle) and it is too bright for my NT5's (IMHO). The stock MXL mics are a bit bright on it as well. But put a Neumann KM184 on it, and it sounds heavenly. On the other hand, I have a a Blueridge BR43 (which is a darker guitar) and the Neumanns sound wrong on it. It sounds better with the Rode NT5's.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's important to match the right mic with the right source. For the individual recordist, that means buying mics that match your instrument/voice. For the studio owner, it means acquiring a collection of mics with different tonal characteristics so you have the right tool for the job.
What exactly does the Behringer C-2 set do to the sound of an acoustic guitar to make it so devastatingly bad?
I can't tell what your trying contribute here. Are you for or against the C2 Mics? If its the former do you have a sound clip to post? There's not that much out there for info on them.
I don't want to back pedal but does anyone want to push me further on the direction of the Octava 012? Would folks recommend it as strongly for other sources?
You should consider the Line Audio CM3, cheaper and better than the Rode NT5 and the Oktava MK-012. Here attached a test on piano. Same take for the 4 mic pairs. Schoeps MK 21 is for reference.
I can't tell what your trying contribute here. Are you for or against the C2 Mics? If its the former do you have a sound clip to post? There's not that much out there for info on them.
I don't want to back pedal but does anyone want to push me further on the direction of the Octava 012? Would folks recommend it as strongly for other sources?
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I think what I'm trying to say is...the C2's will do the trick. Your acoustic guitar will still sound like an acoustic guitar and if you're lucky the .5% improvement with other mics will go largely unnoticed by maybe you and probably your listeners.
What am I on about though...this is Gearslutz...where filling your boots with...gear is the name of the game!
Good luck mate.
Actually...I'd love to try some NT5's...I do have the C2's...they were cheap and make my acoustic sound like an acoustic...it's a Martin D-28...so what more need I say...great sounding guitar....great recording...or I imagine it would be better if I had a great tracking room...but that's another story. And it would be even better if I had great monitors in a treated room to be able to hear exactly what my trusty C2's are capturing...but that's a problem for another day too.
I'd like to hear NT5's or something touted as great/ good...just to see if I really should start using my C2's as gofer projectiles.
It's a complicated issue for sure...I'm staying out of it...
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