If you write a number one???

[TLMUSIC]

I know this varies greatly depending on sales , points etc ... but out of fun and sheer curiosity what is the average kind of money a writer / producer should expect if they create a number 1 (single) record in the UK .. or even the US?

Sorry i had to ask...

[newbie123]

a lot depending on the points you retain and your deal and a lot of other things.

[chetatkinsdiet]

Right...do you mean for Chuck Berry or U2?

m

[TLMUSIC]

Originally Posted by chetatkinsdiet

Right...do you mean for Chuck Berry or U2?

m

Lol - like i said just an averge number one - could be anything from the Sugababes to Kelly Clarkson and so on - i don't mean massive massive hits just your typical hit - one or two weeks at the top.

Just a bit of fun ... anymore suggestions - or infact anyone had a number one?

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Adeama

I know this varies greatly depending on sales , points etc ... but out of fun and sheer curiosity what is the average kind of money a writer / producer should expect if they create a number 1 (single) record in the UK .. or even the US?

Sorry i had to ask...

I can only speak from my personal experience.

I've had a few number ones in various places in Europe, UK and Australia. My top position in the UK was #1 with a bonus track on an S Club 7 maxi single, and a #5 on the UK single chart with DJ Aligator's The Whistle Song, which I co-produced and co-wrote.

The Whistle Song has grossed just short of a million dollars in copyrights alone, not counting record sales and compilations, and moneys are still coming in many years after the release, but how much of it is from the UK I can't tell you exactly. And while this was a big hit in parts of Europe it isn't known in the US at all unfortunately.

How much money will also depend on if you both produced and wrote it, or just co-wrote it, etc. So it's really hard to be more precise.

But do expect to lead a more leisurable life afterwards, although you may be too busy with all the work people'll want you for now you hit #1. The sad part is that you'll end up spending all the money on new gear you don't need, since you already made a #1 with your old gear. LOL

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

But do expect to lead a more leisurable life afterwards, although you may be too busy with all the work people'll want you for now you hit #1. The sad part is that you'll end up spending all the money on new gear you don't need, since you already made a #1 with your old gear. LOL

or cars?? : ) congratulations on your success!!

[C_F_H_13]

You definetly make decent coin, but keep these things in mind.

-Whatever you make, tax half... 50% of what you earn (give or take) goes to the man.
-10-15% goes to your manager or lawyer (unless you have a retainer)
-SAVE YOUR EARNINGS. Silly people get a check for 500,000 or whatever, and forget about the prior two points I made. They spend it on a house, gear, cars, clothes, jewelery....then tax time comes and uncle sam wants 185,000 from you that you don't have....

[RobR]

Yeah, the upper bracket in the U.S. gets hit real hard if they don't have any clever ways of getting out of it. It's kind of unfair with most artists/engineers given they need to rely on large chunks to spread over low/no income months/years.

Rob.

[T_R_S]

If you write a number one???

You get to live in a chateau in Switzerland...

[C_F_H_13]

Oh Don't forget to, that if you write any song with any sucess, people will come out of the woodwork and try and sue you for stealing their ideas, or stealing melody lines. Then you'll have to spend more cash, on either a settlement or lawyers. Regardless of whether you did or not, you'll pay.

[C Heat]

Good question.

How bout some ballparks tho?

For example:
No.1 song for 2 - 4 weeks in the US
Writer (solo) only

In a few years you would expect to have earnt ??????? ($5000, $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 ???)

[TLMUSIC]

Originally Posted by C Heat

Good question.

How bout some ballparks tho?

For example:
No.1 song for 2 - 4 weeks in the US
Writer (solo) only

In a few years you would expect to have earnt ??????? ($5000, $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 ???)

Yea that's a cool way of guaging at it!

Thanks for the info / responses guys.

[allencollins]

I don't know about a #1 but I know a guy who had a top ten single
and he owns the publishing. Last summer I was driving around this lake near my house and I saw him raking a lawn. The house was huge probably worth 1.5 mil

I asked a friend of mine who used to drum for this guy. I said, I saw **** raking
his lawn. My buddy says 'He doesn't own a house' I said are you sure. He said
he's broke. I said but he had a top ten hit and he owns the publishing he recorded major label cd's blah bah blah.

My buddy said he only made 150 grand and he had to give half to his x-wife. After taxes he only got about 50 grand. He was raking the lawn because he's a landscaper now. Pretty sad. I won't mention his name but he recorded 4 major label albums with some very good producers and some very famous musicians in the BOSTON (hint) area.

oh well maybe they'll start playing his song on elevators or muzac at the grocer so he can earn some more $$$ residuals

It's a long way to the top....................
If u want to rock and roll

[heathen]

Quote:"The sad part is that you'll end up spending all the money on new gear you don't need, since you already made a #1 with your old gear. LOL"

Lagerfeldt your a true gearslut with a capital "G",hahaha.
Good work and well done. Just save a little cash for some food.

Good 1.

Heath.

[robmix]

Well, the basics are simple. As a writer you get about 8.25 cents per song/per CD sold. So on a million sold you get about $82,500. You may be asked to take 75% which is called statutory rape, I mean statutory rate. As a producer 3 points is standard, I've never been asked to take less. Assuming you split the points with other producers on the record, and you only produced that single, 3 points is worth about $28,000 - $35,000 per song/per CD depending on the number of songs, retail price and "standard" deductions. The math can be a little more complicated but these are the numbers I've seen. The mystery is airplay. I've never seen any formulas for that and we all know there are radio hits that don't sell and there are CD hits that don't get airplay. I do have a friend that had a huge hit with a boy band and the performance royalties on that song were well over 1 million $$$.

So, one song on a CD that's sells a million copies that you've produced and written is worth about $100,000 without performance royalties.

[doug_hti]

well for performance royalty, anywhere from $500,000 to probably 1.5million within a years time...obviously cases of less and more and probably an average of 1 million. This is for #1 on the hot 100. International airplay running on the tales of U.S. number one will be delayed by maybe an additional 6 months.

It really is difficult, because a lot of times a number one will have an lot of play from other sources, such as tv commercials, tv shows, movies, etc because it went top 5. But usually a number one pop song is going to result in a good million one way or another...and remember all the weeks it takes to get there....this is assuming the writer has a 100% share and traditional publishing deal where you get 100% writers share(a song is 50% writers share and 50% publishers share). Split in half if it's a 50/50 cowrite.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by robmix

Well, the basics are simple. As a writer you get about 8.25 cents per song/per CD sold. So on a million sold you get about $82,500. You may be asked to take 75% which is called statutory rape, I mean statutory rate. As a producer 3 points is standard, I've never been asked to take less. Assuming you split the points with other producers on the record, and you only produced that single, 3 points is worth about $28,000 - $35,000 per song/per CD depending on the number of songs, retail price and "standard" deductions. The math can be a little more complicated but these are the numbers I've seen. The mystery is airplay. I've never seen any formulas for that and we all know there are radio hits that don't sell and there are CD hits that don't get airplay. I do have a friend that had a huge hit with a boy band and the performance royalties on that song were well over 1 million $$$.

So, one song on a CD that's sells a million copies that you've produced and written is worth about $100,000 without performance royalties.

This is about as close as you'll get to an actual number. The big kickers at the end of the day is the splits on the songwriting/and the old record one problem. Does the label have to pay you your royalties from record one, or after they recoup. I've only seen this happen once...and man I feel for the guy. Sold 2 million albums, but the record was way over budget...he made about as much as a guy who sold 320,000 albums...decent chunk of change, but not 2 million albums worth. Publishing is where the real money is...if you don't get F@@@ed that is. Did you get 100% of the single, or a more likely 25-30%? Even 25% of a hugely successful single, will net you a nice check everyone so often for a good part of your life. I know a guy who still gets a check about every 3 months- a year from his publisher for a song he did 10 years ago....and they aren't small checks.

[dB7]

Sole writer, depending on publishing deal, $250k - 500k.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by robmix

So, one song on a CD that's sells a million copies that you've produced and written is worth about $100,000 without performance royalties.

I've never had a #1 in the US, but that seems to be very low figures. But I always strive to make the producer royalties go a long way. 4% can be worth a lot more than 8% if you're avoiding all the common mistakes, and avoid letting the company turn you into their personal f*ckdoll. I recommend reading All You Need To Know About the Music Business by Donald S. Passman, and then get a good attorney BEFORE signing.

Now you're talking US mechanicals.. rates are slightly different in Europe where you are not forced to statutory rape, I mean rates. :-) And performance royalties are much better here. I've collected many hundred thousand $ in performances, the song This Is How We Party with SOAP alone collected $350.000 in performance royalties. Add mechanicals, Gramex (performing artist, musician/producer) and royalties and things are looking swell.

However, do expect to be f*cked at every level, maybe by a partner (people tend to get greedy when a lot of money is involved), then by the record company (I've worked with just about every major, and Sony is by far the worst) and then your publishing company (currently on my second lawsuit now), and then finally by Tax Daddy.

Of course there are ways to optimize your economy, you don't have to make it easy for the tax people to rip you off. In Denmark I pay 68% tax of my last earned money. So you can imagine there's a big incentive to avoid this "equalizer". Denmark is truly a communist country, not literally but the government wants everybody to be equal, so nobody's supposed to be rich.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I've never had a #1 in the US, but that seems to be very low figures.

Nope, that's the real numbers based on my royalty statements over the last 8 years or so. Of course there are alternate income streams. That number strictly represents record royalties and publishing off 1 million in CD sales.

[nadumr]

Originally Posted by robmix

As a writer you get about 8.25 cents per song/per CD sold. So on a million sold you get about $82,500. You may be asked to take 75% which is called statutory rape, I mean statutory rate.

To my understanding, the US statutory rate is currently 8.55 cents per song - the 75% is just a lame "tradition" that the record companies attempt to create an agreement to (so they dont have to pony up all of their mechanicals). It is possible obviously to negotiate a better mechanical rate (such as 100% of the statutory rate)...

ar

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

(I've worked with just about every major, and Sony is by far the worst)

You can say that again ! Sony sucks, they owe me a s**tload of money that I will probably never get. dfegad Sony

Sorry, had to rant. Now back on topic.

[C Heat]

$50G and props, I'd be happy fo sho.

Kinda makes you wonder tho what D. Warren/Realsongs makes pa, huh!

Livin' LARGE!

L A R G E.

[TLMUSIC]

Originally Posted by C Heat

$50G and props, I'd be happy fo sho.

Kinda makes you wonder tho what D. Warren/Realsongs makes pa, huh!

Livin' LARGE!

L A R G E.

Yea - i cant even imagine what people like Linda Perry etc etc are making!

[CaliTone]

Diane Warren just needs a couple of more hits and she'll be as rich as Bill Gates! HAHAHA

[robmix]

Originally Posted by nadumr

To my understanding, the US statutory rate is currently 8.55 cents per song - the 75% is just a lame "tradition" that the record companies attempt to create an agreement to (so they dont have to pony up all of their mechanicals). It is possible obviously to negotiate a better mechanical rate (such as 100% of the statutory rate)...

ar

Could be, it's changed again and I haven't checked. I think it's due to go up to 9 cents at some point. The 75% is a lame tradition and in some cases the label doesn't even ask for it. Often they'll put a cap on the number of songs and if the artist goes over that everyone has to take statutory. If you're a big songwriter with a number of hits you can negotiate it out.

[doug_hti]

Originally Posted by robmix

Could be, it's changed again and I haven't checked. I think it's due to go up to 9 cents at some point. The 75% is a lame tradition and in some cases the label doesn't even ask for it. Often they'll put a cap on the number of songs and if the artist goes over that everyone has to take statutory. If you're a big songwriter with a number of hits you can negotiate it out.

I think putting a cap on the songs (paid at full rate) is quite a bit more common...a lot of record deals state 10 as being that number

[heathen]

Just imagine if everyone of us gearslutz here could fork out $1000 and create our own massive distribution company/conglomerate for all gearslutz artists,$1000 would equal say 1000 shares or even 10,000 shares. Charge a flat rate of 20% of wholesale and let the artists have 80%( roughly 20% as a small profit is justified).
It could just work as nearly everyone in the music industry has heard of gearslutz. Online distribution would be basic and could be near free to do, cd's are extremely cheap to make.
The thing is if each artist was charged say $2000 dollars upfront for distributing 1000 cd's (artist would pay for thier own cd's) and everyone could be happy,the artists music would be for sale either online or in stores depending on popularity and if it does'nt sell you only lose a few grand not a few hundred grand. If the company was run well it would also turn a mild profit for share holders as each artist would be charged a small amount upfront. Thats if a cd could fetch at least $10 a pop.

Hmmmm I hope this does'nt sound like communism,anyway I'm daydreaming.Back to work.

[robmix]

Originally Posted by doug_hti

I think putting a cap on the songs (paid at full rate) is quite a bit more common...a lot of record deals state 10 as being that number

Oh yeah, I don't think I've ever seen an artist contract without the cap.

[billwarner]

I'd like to find out first hand what a #1 pop cut pays. But I can tell you that in the country market, a multi-week #1 pays a total of about 1 to 1.5 million. Usually split between 2 publishers and 2 writers. Since many country artists only sell gold or possibly platinum, there's typically not as much in mechanicals, but there sure are a lot of radio stations playing country. Performance royalties are where it's at. BTW, network TV pays great and cable is just O.K. It will be interesting to see how the internet revenue stream shakes out.
Bill