Midi Guitar or real Guitar ?

[MACHINE]

I don't know if alot of people hade experience with Midi Guitar I do know its a small market, but Im thinking of getting a guitar or midi guitar, I guess the real question Im asking is, wouldn't a midi guitar and real guitar be the same ? I guess you can use midi guitars in programs like Kontakt 2 and etc..... and you can't use real guitars, anyway Im doing some research on it and it seems like its going to be a bit more complicated then I thought so Ill end this post with, what are my options if I want to use the guitar sounds in my midi based computer modules and have them sound real.

[el cochino]

I'd get a real guitar, install a midi pickup and use it with an Axon guitar to midi converter.

http://www.midi-classics.com/p9753.htm

[MACHINE]

That would work for programs like Kontakt 2 and Reason ? How much is a average midi convertor and how much is a axon guitar is there a special reason you mentioned that one and not another ? Would the chain go from quarter inch to midi convertor to midi input ?

[el cochino]

Yes, it will work with any midi capable sampler, but you need a special pickup. There are several types of guitar to midi systems, but Axon have a very good reputation and very fast and tracking. They're also the most expensive units, I think. The Axon AX 100 MkII plus a AIX 103 pickup will cost around $1000. The might have a cheaper box without internal sounds, though. (The AX 100 has 500)

[MACHINE]

So If I wanted to use the guitar as strictly a midi controller would I need one or both ? As far as I can understand the Axon AIX 101 is something that would enable my guitar to have the capability to have my quater inch output turn into a midi output and then be inputted into a Axon AX 100 MkII and then be put into my midi interface. But if thats the case I don't really need a Axon AX 100 MkII to use my guitar as a midi controller I can just install a Axon AIX 101 and go directly into my interface. Unless Im missing a part of the equation here, anyway thanx alot for your advice, I really appreciate it, the whole Midi guitar thing has been something that has been bothering me for a while.

[el cochino]

Originally Posted by MACHINE

So If I wanted to use the guitar as strictly a midi controller would I need one or both ? As far as I can understand the Axon AIX 101 is something that would enable my guitar to have the capability to have my quater inch output turn into a midi output and then be inputted into a Axon AX 100 MkII and then be put into my midi interface. But if thats the case I don't really need a Axon AX 100 MkII to use my guitar as a midi controller I can just install a Axon AIX 101 and go directly into my interface. Unless Im missing a part of the equation here, anyway thanx alot for your advice, I really appreciate it, the whole Midi guitar thing has been something that has been bothering me for a while.

No, it doesn't work that way. The pickup doesn't put out midi, you need the AX 100 to convert the signal from the pickup to midi notes.

[MACHINE]

OOOO I think I get it now, hey does it matter what kind of guitar I get ? Can I get any electric guitar as long as its built good and won't break on me or should I care ?

[peterr]

Godin (three voice models) and Brian Moore (Iguitar models) both make decent quality cost-effective guitars with built in Hex outputs for use with Roland VG guitar synths (VG units convert the Hex pickup output to midi, can trigger internal VG Synth sounds and/or output midi to your DAW)

The Axon unit is the same principal I believe. Roland also have an external pickup which you can install on most guitars.

I've haven't extensively tested any of them so I cant comment on how good they are. Just letting you know whats out there.

It really is easier to use a real guitar to record real guitar sounds and use a keyboard for synthesised sounds. I find these things to be a bit of a gimmick.

[manning1]

machine...
if your going the midi guitar route.
what i use in my sig has a couple of interesting features you might find usefull.
a midi guitar fretboard display, (also displays bass)...and a way of cleaning up midi guitar tracks.
a de glitch routine that removes glitch notes...based on velocity and duration .
you can specify adjustments for each string in milliseconds.
also there is an adjust latency feature to compensate for midi guitar latency.
theres just too much to type in this response. so if your interested
just try the demo from pgmusic.com. you might also peruse the pg forums.
because a few weeks back there was a very in depth discussion of the best combo of guitars and midi pickups etc to use. if i get time i'll try and find the link for you.

[massimo]

I have been into having a guitar produce synthesizer sounds since 1978 (Electro Harmonix micro-synthesizer). Then it was a Korg X- something (maybe 911, I am not sure). Then via CV and trigger outputs to MS20 and MS50 Korg synths. This worked without having to install a dedicated pickup, and it was pre-MIDI. Then the midi Roland stuff (GM-something), with dedicated pickup. In short, after several levels of disappointment, I eventually landed in Axon-land in 1999. I use this with a pickup-equipped classical guitar. It works very well, very fast and very tweakable. That said, inputting midi data into a sequencer with this setup can be very, very frustrating. I recommend this for realtime performance (audio recording, live) strictly. One very nice alternative is the Ztar midi controller, of which I am a great fan. Best use is without its fake strings, just its keys on the fretboard. This is wonderful, but you have to re-learn/re-invent your playing partly, which is exciting as well. This is the least guitaristic solution in terms of playing, but the one that allows a guitarist to use synthesizers and voice chords almost like a keyboardist does, still making full use of his/her left-hand guitar technique. With the guitar+Axon solution, you still play a real guitar, with its advantages, but chord voicing and use of intervals is strictly guitaristic.
Hope this helps
best regards
Massimo

[max cooper]

What are you guys using MIDI guitar for?

I hadn't used it since the earliest Roland, then I used the Ibanez system for one project and haven't used one since.

Would you use a MIDI guitar to play guitar samples? That sounds kinda funny, but maybe it makes sense in some way.

I think I'd use a MIDI guitar to play almost anything but guitar samples.

Anyway, not meant to be any kind of comment, just wondering.

[MACHINE]

Why would you use guitar not to play guitar samples ?

[camitchell]

I use the Axon as well. The best thing about the Axon is it can push any sound module. I currently use a Fantom XR but I could just as easily run gigasampler, etc.

[cramseur]

Originally Posted by MACHINE

Why would you use guitar not to play guitar samples ?

For the same reason many use a keyboard to play non-keyboard sounds...because it's their main/familiar instrument, and they want to add other sounds to their songs WITHOUT learning a new instrument. Like strings or horns or organ for instance.

BTW Godin's are fine midi guitars. I'm waiting to buy a new Axon AX-100 MkII to drive it with (I use a Roland GI-20 now).

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by MACHINE

Why would you use guitar not to play guitar samples ?

this is getting kind of conceptual. I guess that what I know of guitar samples would lead me to believe that anyone who has a bit of dexterity with a guitar would feel limited by using it to trigger guitar samples.

Of course, there may be something great in that that's not possible with a guitar.

[sleepwalker]

Originally Posted by MACHINE

I don't know if alot of people hade experience with Midi Guitar I do know its a small market, but Im thinking of getting a guitar or midi guitar, I guess the real question Im asking is, wouldn't a midi guitar and real guitar be the same ? I guess you can use midi guitars in programs like Kontakt 2 and etc..... and you can't use real guitars, anyway Im doing some research on it and it seems like its going to be a bit more complicated then I thought so Ill end this post with, what are my options if I want to use the guitar sounds in my midi based computer modules and have them sound real.

Yeah. Get a Midi Pickup, and you'll need another device to get the midi out to the computer. I used a Roland GK2 pickup, and it was fun, no replacement for actual guitar, but cool to use the guitar as a midi controller. Good luck.

Oh, and for the love of Jesu. Please don't play guitar samples from the guitar. It's just plain dirty.

[cramseur]

Oh, and for the love of Jesu. Please don't play guitar samples from the guitar. It's just plain dirty.

thumbsup

guitar samples = dfegad compared to real guitar...most of the time.
I will admit to having strayed though (fingerstyle arpeggios are not my best skill, yet).

[Jim Williams]

I, also a long time Axon user. I have the old Shadow box, the AX 100 mk 1 with the mono input jack and the new AX 100 Mk. 2.

It's important to have a great guitar as controller. I use a Fernandez Dragonfly with the sustainer system installed. This allows infinate sustain on any note or group of notes. It overcomes the dreaded "midi note off" problem inherent with all guitar controllers.

Imagine, you got a snarly Jimmie Smith Hammond patch going... and you want to hold a 9th chord for 4 bars, can no do with regular guitars, can do with the Fernandez.

Or, you got some mean Mini Moog lead line going and you want to get crazy all over the fingerboard and dive bomb the whammy bar down a couple of octaves, it will keep on going until you stop the string.

Now that's fun!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[max cooper]

Jim:

Is the Sustainer easy to install on other guitars or do you suggest getting a Fernandes?

[Jim Williams]

There is an aftermarket version called the Sustainiac, designed to install in a Strat or LP. I have one in a Fender Roland-ready Strat and it's somewhat hit/miss. It does have more harmonic options, but drive levels are not as good as Fernandez and there is more driver leakage.

I don't believe Fernandez sells the sustainer system alone, they do sell the Roland kit that you can install into the guitar.

One drawback of all driver systems is the driver leakage into the rear pickup. This is a gritty, low level grunge that you can hear. Fernandez does a pretty good job of eliminating it at the expense of filtering the audio pickup's output in the highs. I've modified mine to allow more top end through at the expense of a small amount of leakage, this way the guitar sounds decent.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades