drum/recording question

[catfish11]

i am really considering getting a set of roland or pintech virtual drums and triggering my drum soundz, perhaps in conjunction w/ real cymbals
is this a feasible option?
i own gigasampler and some of the drum samples on that are just killer.
it just seems that one would gain alot by using samples as far as ones ability to control the sound options, no bleed ect.
i know many drum tracks are triggered........any thoughts? rollz rollz rollz rollz rollz

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by catfish11
i am really considering getting a set of roland or pintech virtual drums and triggering my drum soundz, perhaps in conjunction w/ real cymbals
is this a feasible option?
i own gigasampler and some of the drum samples on that are just killer.
it just seems that one would gain alot by using samples as far as ones ability to control the sound options, no bleed ect.
i know many drum tracks are triggered........any thoughts? rollz rollz rollz rollz rollz

It depends - do you want the sound of a real drum set? If so, it's really easier to get it from a real drum set. If you're looking for other things, then you may be able to use triggered drums to good effect. I will point out that several of the drummers I use swear by D Drums - they say that they trigger faster than any of the MIDI based versions. Even if you end up taking the MIDI out of the D Drum 3's, they say that it feels better when they play.

[e-cue]

I just did a session on the new roland V-drums, and the label actually called and bitched me out for renting a kit. (the V drums were a buddy's I barrowed for free-but of course, I told the label I picked up the tab, j.k.)... If the drummer KNOWS the virtual kit, I think the answer is yes... If the drummer is in-experenced working on these kits, no way in hell.

[vsl666]

tut i am going to fly in the face of convention here
and point out that these contraptions are the work of NUNS who are out to eraticate ROCK

they sound awful (yes they bloody do!)
i know modern music is not about realism but thats no exuse
for making things sound small and without a jot of personality or intrest

i hate these boxes i dont understand why they exist..it must be THE NUNS there is no other reason .. the only nearly sensible argument in their favour is that you can rehurse with them and
not drown everybody out ...
but thats a girls argument and the drummer that made it
was i suspect a NUN as no self respecting ROCK GOD could possibly be so mealy mouthed and sensible
its certainly no way to go about making any record i plan on listning to (unless im being paid)

so strike one back for our teamrollz and hit somthing with a stick
its more fun and in the long run costs alot more so your gear lust will be sated .. just redirected ...

once you stick that roland through your avolon you must really be rockin eq !



you just like the lights innit ?

[e-cue]

Ahhh VSL, It's good to see us disagreeing again. It does my heart good.

[vsl666]

fuuck

[catfish11]

i think it's one of those looks good on paper deals,
and i am not to bright and my memory is a bit....well, the word slips my mind.
anyway here i am wanting to open a studio and i have totally forgotton what that means MAKE MONEY!
and i have totally forgotton where i use to spend all my money when we went into the studio---------> SETTING UP DRUMS!
o well, nough said


one more word i just learned in pro tools jargon---->SOUNDREPLACER YEA BABY!

[alphajerk]

i would LOVE a set of V-drums so i could play drums well into the night without disturbing my wife and kid.

[e-cue]

Anyone that hasn't checked out the new V Drums IS missing out... You can choose mic placement, etc... real clever.

[vsl666]

*rolls eyes and makes a face*grudge

[alphajerk]

Originally posted by e-cue
Anyone that hasn't checked out the new V Drums IS missing out... You can choose mic placement, etc... real clever.

shell depth, tuning, cant you even change shell type, head type... all sorts of thing. and the action on the heads in unbelievable. they are VERY sensitive to even the most slick ghost rolls.

sure its not a REAL drum set. but damn.

[Jax]

Originally posted by e-cue
Anyone that hasn't checked out the new V Drums IS missing out... You can choose mic placement, etc... real clever.

Sorry, but v drumz sound like utter and complete shit. The mic placement thing is no better than Roland's attempts at "mic modelling" or their attempts at digital guitar "cab emulations". Maybe a different drum module than the brain that comes with the kit would sound better, but the stock setup is just garbage, and it costs too much. For the same price, you could buy 3 or 4 of the cheap kits surrounding the v drumz in the shop and do much better.

YMMV but I'll still laugh anytime I see one of these in the studio.

[mwagener]

I think e-cue hit the nail on the head:

If the drummer KNOWS the virtual kit, I think the answer is yes... If the drummer is in-experenced working on these kits, no way in hell.

On the other hand it takes about 4 times as long to get those drums to sound right than micing a real kit. A friend of mine (great drummer) sold his V-drums because the pads hurt his wrists after a while of playing. If I have a choice, I go for the real thing.

[e-cue]

I'd prefer a live kit, and I rent kits that fit the type of song we are working on, but if you looking into only buying one kit, the V drums do offer you a bunch of different kits in one set up.

Jax, have you heard the gigasample drums yet???

[alphajerk]

where the Vdrums excel is laying down beats that are NON-realistic.. and possibly midi output. there is a whole side of music that isnt based around "realism"...

i certainly wouldnt get them as my ONLY or even my MAIN kit...

[catfish11]

thanks all
i too have not been impressed w/ the sound modules avail.
but the giga drums, from various producers are in another league-
i am not a drummer, though i have some experience at beating various items,..........cough........cough

perhaps some of you experienced drummer types could give me a clue on the best kind of kit for multiple uses.
you have to remember i am on a rock in the middle of the ocean
and our music store doesn't even keep 1 kit, much less several
my main use i believe would be in the rock, reggae vein.
maybe someone is aware of a relatively moderately priced kit that sounds pretty solid.

thanks

[vsl666]

mainly rock and reggae?
well i know its a personal thing but i think these
are AMAZING ... and not as expensive as you might imagine..
talk to KEVIN at the BEARING EDGE...takes a while but
the day will come and you will be PHAT

http://www.bearingedge.com/

[Jay Kahrs]

What's your budget for a kit in USD? There are some great deals on used kits out there if you don't mind buying used and off Ebay. I bought my current studio kit new and while I'm happy with it and my clients are too I don't know if I'd ever buy another new kit. If you can, break it down to what you'd like to spend for drums only and then all the other stuff like snares, cymbals and hardware. Half the trick to making drums sound good is playing and tuning. I've recorded DW kits that sound horrible and Pearl Exports that sound great while it should actually be in the inverse all the time.

[Jax]

Originally posted by e-cue
Jax, have you heard the gigasample drums yet???

If I've heard them, it wasn't known to me that they were used. Gigasampler would probably be a vast improvement over the stock Roland v drum brain, but I doubt many people wouldn't go through the trouble of setting up Giga as a sound module for the kit.

How simple is it to bring in a v drums, then wade through Giga for each individual drum element, and assign each sound to trigger through each drum? Time and convenience-wise, Compare that to having even one good drum kit ready to go with mics on it. Then remember SoundReplacer.

[adam_w]

I think everyone should suffer and be forced to make Pearl Exports sound good for a while ! You'll learn to tune drums and everything! And maybe even go buy some decent drums for the kids ! IMHO those kits are great for practice at home, but have no place as a substitute for a real kit played by a real animal. Soundreplacer-ing here & there is OK, and if you're getting
eeelectronic then right on, but..No matter what you do, it won't sound right if you're trying to pretend you recorded real life stinky drums and use a vdrum setup. where's the pedal squeak ? the snare rattle ? the charming tom overtones ? the drummer farts ?

[adam_w]

Why does Mr wavy hand not like the word substitute ? Don'y ya love computers !

[Jules]

"Tee U Tee" is the code for Mr tut I can change that...... sometime!

[Spokes]

As a drummer who´s recorded some records with a pad/hihat setup, overdubbing the crashes, I´ll say you can get the feel but not the sound of real drums. If they´re not real drums, they won´t sound like real drums. Those sessions were always due to the studios setup or lack of. Let´s face it: There´s nothing like the real thing.

[bump]

There is nothing like a real kit. No argument there. If ya gotta go with triggers, the Sonic Implants Blue Jay Drum Series is the best bunch of kit sounds I've ever heard by far, both for the sounds and the response. The "loose" kit was sampled with snare buzz on the toms and kick. Very cool. The variations in tone switched by velocity has got to be heard to be believed. I think there are 6 samples per note. I used to think that soundfonts were for kids but I gotta say, Sonic Implants turned my head. (Love the Mellotron as well)

[vudoo]

As a drummer, i must say there is NOTHING that's even close to a well tune/WELL PLAYED set of acoustic drums.
Of course, electronic is great too but, for me, i use them to complement my acoustic NOT to replace them. I see them as two different instruments.
To get a great drum sound/performance...you definitely need an excellent drummer, good sounding kit and room..if you have the above, go for the REAL thing.

[zarathoustra]

hello mr e-cue,
i just read your post about the roland v-drums... i have just a question: the kit you used was a TD-8 or a TD-10 ?
thanx

[e-cue]

Originally posted by zarathoustra
hello mr e-cue,
i just read your post about the roland v-drums... i have just a question: the kit you used was a TD-8 or a TD-10 ?
thanx

We had a TD-10 with the pro set (not the rubber pad v drums). We had a session not too long ago where Omar Hakim played his v drums along to a 2 mix he was sent, and just emailed us his "performance". This worked out great because the producer likes to try out a lot of different directions on each song. Gigastudio is sometimes used after the fact with the midi files, but that is more on the producer, not me.

[Jax]

e-cue, you know how fortunate you are to be working with people like Omar Hakim? Even if he wasn't there in person, being able to work on anything he played on would be a dream come true for me. Although working with him in person would be the ultimate. You're one lucky dude.. which isn't to say you don't have talent, also. Plus you're hella young to be working at that level.

sheesh

[e-cue]

Yeah, I felt pretty damn cool that day. I would've perfered an ISDN, or better yet, in person session, but it was great non-the-less. (sidenote: I was a session drummer at age 13, so it was one of those "never thought I'd see the day" things)