Mix question on SSL: where, in the chain, do big name mixers put their outboard?

[Local 47]

Hi,
is there a general rule where to put your outboard in the signal chain when mixing on an SSL? I'm talking outboard gear you know.
Like, do you put your outoard comps/eq's before you hit the console (before the line amps) or do you put them on the insert sends/returns? Or do you, like for instance MB, send the untreated channel to a comp and return it on another channel?
How do most of the big names, like AW, TLA, CLA, JJP, J. Scott, Brendan O' B (and many others) do this?
Do you go for the shortest signal path? Or for the most flexibility?

thanxabunch

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Local 47

Hi,
is there a general rule where to put your outboard in the signal chain when mixing on an SSL? I'm talking outboard gear you know.
Like, do you put your outoard comps/eq's before you hit the console (before the line amps) or do you put them on the insert sends/returns? Or do you, like for instance MB, send the untreated channel to a comp and return it on another channel?
How do most of the big names, like AW, TLA, CLA, JJP, J. Scott, Brendan O' B (and many others) do this?
Do you go for the shortest signal path? Or for the most flexibility?

thanxabunch

They do whatever sounds good.


Usually that means both.

[Local 47]

What do you mean?
What I'm trying to say is that somehow it seems like a lot of people seem to think (going through some older posts) the sound is degrading too much when using the channel inserts (sort of like what MB was saying, that he hardly ever (if ever?) uses comps on the channel inserts). On the other side there is of course the added routing flexibility when using the inserts. So, you think it's a non-issue, right?

[Jules]

Do you mean - are mixers not using insert points and instead bypassing that for improved sonics?

During tracking this is a game plan for some people... plugging mic pre signal into insert returns.. (to bypass desk pre and other electronics...)

But for mixing..er.... I just used to use the insert points..

But folks may have different tricks for different consoles to achive what they deem the 'optimum' sound

Anyone?

[robmix]

Originally Posted by Local 47

What do you mean?
What I'm trying to say is that somehow it seems like a lot of people seem to think (going through some older posts) the sound is degrading too much when using the channel inserts (sort of like what MB was saying, that he hardly ever (if ever?) uses comps on the channel inserts). On the other side there is of course the added routing flexibility when using the inserts. So, you think it's a non-issue, right?

Depends on the engineer, but like Thrill said it's usually a combination. CLA used to use all three methods. Most comps would be on the insert but occassionally he'd put a comp before the line input as well as on the insert. And just about every big engineer that I've ever worked with used some sort of drum sub using the busses to send the kit to another compressor. It depends how hard you want to hit the channel and the compressor.

[djui5]

Yeah, it depends on the engineer.

It also depends on what your doing. If you wanted to comp the sends to a reverb, you wouldn't use an insert, you'd patch it in post send and pre verb. If you wanted to use a couple comps on a drum buss, you might use one post buss send, pre line in to console, and another one on the insert post eq.


bla bla bla.

[TonyBelmont]

Usually, whatever is the most convenient...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Local 47

So, you think it's a non-issue, right?

No it can be.

Not all SSL's have balanced inserts.

The inserts tend to load the gear differently.

For years i've prefered to chain the gear together coming of the converters because it sounds better that way.

Also the gear loads differently.

[shproductions03]

Its up to your ears to make the call. They all sound different, many people return there tape returns (Pro Tools - Tape - DAW - Etc. in the insert return and not the line-in because they say it sounds better then going in the line-in where the signal must pass through the micpre circuitry again. Going in the insert return is post micpre. Many will return inserts in new channels for further EQing ability and the ability to mix the return with the original channels. Drums, old big drums 80's trick take you drum sub mix send it into one of you groove little stereo compressors you own, compress the living crap out of it -20db so it sounds like shit then, return it into two new channel, take the high end EQ and crank the shit out of it like 12k-ish 12db then go low and take like 80Hz and crank that up 12db then mix that compressed return really low under the original mix of your drums and it will help make you sound like the man, some say.

[phelbin]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

For years i've prefered to chain the gear together coming of the converters because it sounds better that way.

Does it give it a more even sound that way?

Originally Posted by shproductions03

mix that compressed return really low under the original mix of your drums and it will help make you sound like the man, some say.

That trick has made me sound good on a bunch of tracks! Every time I do it, I get compliments on the drums.