Should i ditch my sennheiser hd-25's for audiotechnica's ath-m50 s?

[Woody Aki]

As much as I own a a pair of Genelec 1029A's, I'm only able to use them at very low levels thanks to my (suspiciously racist bully) neighbour. Furthermore, I don't own a bassbin to compliment the 1029A's for two reasons - I'm still suspicious as to how much this helps me achieve a balanced mix (guide me to some debates about this, especially if you think I'm wrong), and for financial reasons.

With all that combined, my mixdowns are done mostly on a pair of Sennheiser HD-25 cans, with 112dB's Redline Monitor to achieve what I hear in my monitors as close as possible. Yes, you can argue till the cows come home on how headphones do not compensate for monitors, but after you have read the above, you might understand...

Now, as much as I love my HD-25's, I seem to lack a bit of bass, or I'm being naive enough to crave a bit more 'ooomph' out of my headphones at risk of colouring my mix unnecessarily. I've been reading through many posts on Gearslutz about how good the AudioTechnica ATH-M50 S headphones are...should I go for them, or should I stick to my HD-25's?

Furthermore, any constructive feedback around the nature of my query will be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your time and attention!

[Black Shadow]

Why is this an either/or situation? Just get the ATH-M50s as additional headphones.

I never export a mix before checking it with my speakers as well as at least two pairs of headphones (among which the M50s).

[Woody Aki]

Sorry, I totally gave you a wrong picture there. I intend to keep the HD-25's...
So I'm assuming that 'The Man From Del Monte, he say yes' on the ATH-M50 S.

What's your take on using plugins like 112dB's Redline Monitor and other plugins of that ilk?

[Black Shadow]

I've never tried them, and maybe they're awesome.

But I'd say, what's the point if you have monitors? Use your headphones to check your mixes in a headphone environment - nowadays it's just as important as listening to your mixes in monitors imho.

[Woody Aki]

Granted, but...

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

As much as I own a a pair of Genelec 1029A's, I'm only able to use them at very low levels thanks to my (suspiciously racist bully) neighbour. Furthermore, I don't own a bassbin to compliment the 1029A's for two reasons - I'm still suspicious as to how much this helps me achieve a balanced mix (guide me to some debates about this, especially if you think I'm wrong), and for financial reasons.

With all that combined, my mixdowns are done mostly on a pair of Sennheiser HD-25 cans, with 112dB's Redline Monitor to achieve what I hear in my monitors as close as possible. Yes, you can argue till the cows come home on how headphones do not compensate for monitors, but after you have read the above, you might understand...

[Solidtube]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Now, as much as I love my HD-25's, I seem to lack a bit of bass, or I'm being naive enough to crave a bit more 'ooomph' out of my headphones at risk of colouring my mix unnecessarily. I've been reading through many posts on Gearslutz about how good the AudioTechnica ATH-M50 S headphones are...should I go for them, or should I stick to my HD-25's

I think the ATM-50 is becoming the headphones equivalent to SM7B here at Gearslutz.
HD-25 lack of bass? To me they are bass neutral at best, in fact I think they are bass heavy. The ATM-50 are every more basss heavy so definitely not going to be better for mixing.

[Woody Aki]

Originally Posted by Solidtube

I think the ATM-50 is becoming the headphones equivalent to SM7B here at Gearslutz.
HD-25 lack of bass? To me they are bass neutral at best, in fact I think they are bass heavy. The ATM-50 are every more basss heavy so definitely not going to be better for mixing.

Hmmm, food for thought there.

Before I ask your recommendation for an alternative pair of headphones to complement the HD-25's, I thought it would be wise to point you to my Soundcloud site (Woody Aki's sounds on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free) in order to get a better idea about the type of music I'll be using them for.

I really appreciate your advice...keep it coming!
Thanks...

[Black Shadow]

I didn't get that they were 5" speakers, sorry. Getting ATH-M50s should be helpful with your low end.

Still, I sincerely doubt that a plug-in can make a headphone listening environment resemble a monitor environment and I probably wouldn't shell out money for it. However, as I've never tried it my opinion is worth nothing.

I'd suggest you keep doing what you're doing (using the HD25s as main mixing tool), except that you add the M50s to your arsenal to check your low end.

When the mix sounds good on your speakers as well as on both sets of headphones, I don't see why they shouldn't sound good anywhere else.

EDIT: Damn, I thought HD-25s would be something comparable to HD-600s and the like, which are pretty bass-light for headphones. They are however not:



My advice is: don't get the ATH-M50s but a pair of headphones that's open-backed (like the HD600s or 650s) and therefore has less bass response. Those should complement your HD-25s better.

[Woody Aki]

Damn, judging by the comparative chart that you sent me, it seems that I won't be getting too much from the ATH-M50...if anything, the HD-25's seem to perform marginally better...am I right here?

Also, since you mentioned the HD600's...would you consider them as, say, the h/phone equivalent of Yamaha NS10's (just for argument's sake!) when compared to the HD-25? The difference in bass response makes me think so...

[Black Shadow]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Damn, judging by the comparative chart that you sent me, it seems that I won't be getting too much from the ATH-M50...if anything, the HD-25's seem to perform marginally better...am I right here?

Normally I'd say the flatter the frequency response the better, but there isn't much difference between the HD-25 and the ATH-M50s (at least according to the chart). However, you could consider headphones as different types of glasses: sometimes you need glasses for reading, other times for looking at something distant - the "best" kind of glasses depends on what you need them for.

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Also, since you mentioned the HD600's...would you consider them as, say, the h/phone equivalent of Yamaha NS10's (just for argument's sake!) when compared to the HD-25? The difference in bass response makes me think so...

I've never used NS10s so I only know them by reputation.

[dzn]

hi,

some workarounds that might help in your situation:


workaround a) lowpassfilter everything e.g. @ 62,5 hz and compare it to a similar professional mixed / mastered song with the same settings to really focus on the lowend on headphones. after fixing this region increase your lowpassfilter to 125 hz and compare. you can do the same with highpassfilters to check your highend.


workaround b) you can play your project at 2x rate without pitch correction. your 50 hz will shift to 100 hz and be more "audible". pretty cool to check professional music @ double speed and compare it with your song. it's quite easy to level your lowend (or vocals) this way and at least to me it's much easier to check for any nasty frequencies in the highend / upper midrange sticking out too much.


workaround c) your analyzer might be your best friend. it is at least possible for me to get in the lowend-ballpark by just watching and interpreting it.



i also have sennheiser hd25 and bought them because of their lowend translation to compliment my akg k701. heard the ath-m50's once and they were great fior the money. but even if they have more bass than sennheiser hd25 i can interpret the bass on my sennies better. more defined and as punchy as it can get.


daniel

[Woody Aki]

Currently compiling headphone graphs like mad.
I'll let you know what 'glasses' I'll find - stay tuned!

[Woody Aki]

Some nice tips there Daniel - cheers!
Yeah, the analyser is my best friend here...

[Woody Aki]

Right, after some furious comparisons with the HD-25-1's frequency response chart, here are the the nominations...

AKG K240 Mk.2 - Front-runner for the price/performance ratio. Seems to give a bit more welly in the 30-800Hz and the 3000-10000Hz areas.
Beyer Dynamics DT990 - The best performer in every department, except for a slight lag between 1500-2500Hz
AKG K702 - Makes up nicely where the HD-25-1 lacks in the 2000-8000Hz category.

The dark horse: AKG Q701 Quincy Jones - better in the 50-800Hz area, and performs better between 2000-8000Hz. Bloody expensive though...

Remember guys, I've never went this anal on headphones, and something tells me that my findings might be naive. So, a penny for your thoughts!

[Woody Aki]

Hmmm, should have read Headroom's 'how to' on reading headphone measurements...
Getting excited about this one - Denon AH-D2000 - it might complement my HD 25-1's nicely as a second listening source.

[The Byre]

I know it's not an answer here, but you seriously need to think about getting a new neighbour - and then get a sub!

[Woody Aki]

Don't worry about him - I can handle the c**t...
That's the first time my dual heritage came in handy!

[guavadude]

I love the ATM-h50s. Perfect for tracking, comfortable and they are the only phones I've used where at some point I forgot I had headphones on.
I've given several pairs as gifts and everyone loves them. You can get a new pair on eBay for $100. Are they ruler flat, I dont know, I don't care. They help me make better music.

[Woody Aki]

So far, the ATH-M50 and the AH-D2000 are on my shortlist.

I would love to find some shop based between Cambridge and London where I can take a reference CD and my HD 25-1 II's and be able to A/B them...

[van Overhalen]

I own an old pair of HD 25's. Bought them in the 80's.
Bought a second pair in 2011.
Had to send the new ones back because they were bass- or I should say low mid heavy.Weird.
Ended up buying ATM H50 instead.
I think they 're pretty comparable. A little more open on top compared to my HD 25's.
Pretty similar in the low end department.
Do yourself a favour and stop comparing headphones by looking at graphs.
The designs sound so different from each other (open, half open and closed).
Being used to the HD25's which give me the illusion of being able to "feel" the punch of a bass drum, I was shocked how weak some of the praised and more expensive models were in that department.
I had to send at least three of the models that you refer to in one of your posts back because I couldn't stand them. No balls.
You NEED to listen to them, otherwise you can not make any reasonable decision.

[Woody Aki]

If you followed the progress of the thread, you would have realised that I stopped comparing charts and am actually asking for a place where I can test them.

Analyse, test, buy (as opposed to buy, test, send back and repeat).
Not everybody has the luxury of doing what you do - no offense...

[van Overhalen]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Remember guys, I've never went this anal on headphones, and something tells me that my findings might be naive. So, a penny for your thoughts!

Sorry for taking your words literally.
Seems you know it all already.
(me privileged bastard got it all the wrong way around...)
...and sorry for not following your thread in the right way, too.

[Danz03]

Was the OP referring to HD25-1 or HD25 SP? Because the HP25 SPs are very bass heavy whereas the HD25-1 aren't. The most neutral pair of headphones I've every used are the Audeze LCD-2s, If I have to mix with headphones, they would be my only choice, not that I would if I could avoid it.

Originally Posted by Black Shadow

EDIT: Damn, I thought HD-25s would be something comparable to HD-600s and the like, which are pretty bass-light for headphones. They are however not:



My advice is: don't get the ATH-M50s but a pair of headphones that's open-backed (like the HD600s or 650s) and therefore has less bass response. Those should complement your HD-25s better.

[BTByrd]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

So far, the ATH-M50 and the AH-D2000 are on my shortlist.

I would love to find some shop based between Cambridge and London where I can take a reference CD and my HD 25-1 II's and be able to A/B them...

I have a pair of AH-D2000s which I use primarily to monitor bass in my untreatable studio (all the walls are old, rattly windows and I rent). The bass extension is very nice, but they're kind of heavy - especially compared to the Grados I used to own. This just means I have to take breaks when mixing on them, which is actually a good thing (because it lets my ears rest too).

I also use Futuresonics Atrios, which are very small (in-ear-monitor style), have great bass extension, and are very efficient so you can get them plenty loud.

[Woody Aki]

Originally Posted by danz03

was the op referring to hd25-1 or hd25 sp? Because the hp25 sps are very bass heavy whereas the hd25-1 aren't.

hd25-1 ii