Using the DAC1 with a DA7...
20to20
Thread Starter
#1
27th August 2003
Old 27th August 2003
  #1
Gear nut
 
20to20's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Using the DAC1 with a DA7...

Hey all,

I'm having 'trouble' using my DA7 with a DAC1...

I'm currently going out the DA7's AES to the DAC1...

This completely messes up the mixer's talkback feature when tracking,
so I skip the DAC1 and use the DA7's D-A converters...

Then on mixdown I hook up the DAC1 again
and all is fine until I want to solo a channel...

The solo function only works for the analog outs...

I could go out of the DA7 analog then convert to dig
to then go into the DAC1 but that seems a little silly...

At this point, I only use my groovy DAC1 for mastering...

Any thoughts out there on how I can use it 'more often'...?


Thanks,

Bob Phillips
20to20soundesign

PS - I know that all of these issues are based
on the limitations of the mixer and not the DAC1...
#2
27th August 2003
Old 27th August 2003
  #2
Gear maniac
 

Have you tried changing the talkback routing options on the DA7? You may be able to route the TB to other outputs that don't affect the AES Out.
#3
27th August 2003
Old 27th August 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Brad McGowan's Avatar
 

I too have a DA7 and am considering getting a DAC1. I was aware of the solo limitations. However you can always just solo within the DAW for playback and just mute a bunch of tracks during tracking (via mute groups). I'm not sure how the talkbalk would get screwed up though. I route my talkback to the AUX sends, not the L/R bus. What kind of problems are you having?

Brad
#4
27th August 2003
Old 27th August 2003
  #4
Here's what I do with my ProControl

Turn monitor pot up full

Route DAC-1 to ProControl monitor in,

control volume with DAC-1

Only thing odd with this is - "mix to cues" is dependant on the DAC-1 levels & you have to be care full playing a CD back via a 2tk input as it will come BLASTING out at full volume (so I plug up the patch bay so I cant do this by accident)

Give it a whirl!

#5
27th August 2003
Old 27th August 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
Brad McGowan's Avatar
 

Unfortunately on the DA7 there is no "monitor in". There are only analog Monitor A and Monitor B outputs from the board. Monitor A is the control room outputs and you can assign this output to hear the L/R buss, any of the 6 AUX send pairs, 2trk input. Anytime you hit a solo button the channel that gets soloed only gets routed to the Monitor A output.

Brad
#6
2nd October 2003
Old 2nd October 2003
  #6
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

So, I'm curious, how big was the difference you heard between
the DA7 and the DAC-1?

I just got a lucid genx6 for my DA7 and couldn't really heard a
difference in the output quality and was dissapointed.

I am hoping not to make that mistake again if I was to purchase
a DAC-1. I know jitter issues would be should be taken care of already. I know the solo thing is a pain, I actually use the DA7's solo for mono and the daw's solo for "in place" that way I
don't have to switch it on the DA7. So, it's not a big deal until
more tracking..

I suppose I should get one on trail for myself, but I was
hoping their would be opinions on the two as well.
#7
2nd October 2003
Old 2nd October 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Brad McGowan's Avatar
 

If you couldn't hear the difference the GENx6 made then you may be hard pressed to hear the improvement with the DAC1. When I first implemented the GENx6 as my master clock, it was like night and day difference. Everything got deeper, wider, and clearer. Perhaps the rest of your monitoring path is not up to par? Cables, monitors, room, etc. The DAC1 was another incremental improvement over the GENx6 for me. It sounded a little more 3D, the high end seemed to exend a little higher, and the bottom end became more solid and defined. However, adding the DAC1 to my system with the GENx6 already in place, did not seem to make as big a difference in playback as I remembered the GENx6 making. But my memory could exaggerating what I thought I had experienced. The improvement was more along the lines of what I experienced when I upgraded cables...noticeable but subtle. I need to do some more listening and testing though. I want to compare the DA7 and DAC1 outputs with the DA7 clocked internally. I suspect the differences will be greater without the outboard clock hotrodding the DA7 D/A.

All in all, at this stage of the game it's a matter of inches, not yards.

Brad
#8
2nd October 2003
Old 2nd October 2003
  #8
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

Well, I sure thought I'd hear a difference as well:

I monitored through my HD 580's, (not 600's :( ) and also
have Event PS8's. The room is treated with auralux and some
home-made bass-traps.

Because I thought I'd hear a decent difference, I decided, well,
if the clock supposed to improve a/d d/a, then I'll just play some
stuff out the rec out's on the DA7, with and without clock. I did this, then phase reversed them, normallized the difference and all I hear is what seems to be the dither difference.

Is that a valid test anyone? I'm d/a ing out through the rec out and back in through the a/d on two channels. I throught I'd hear
fairly large differences, but all I hear is what seems to be noise floor/dither and the signal.
#9
2nd October 2003
Old 2nd October 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Brad McGowan's Avatar
 

I noticed differences just playing old mixes I had done out of the Monitor A outputs to my monitors. I would set clock to internal (disconnecting the Lucid) and hook up all wordclock cables appropriately and listen. Then I would make the Lucid the master clock and slave the DA7 and sound card (MOTU 2408 in my case)to it with wordclock cable. When I pressed play to listen again, things sounded noticeably improved, especially in the high end and with regards to the width and depth of soundstage. I just used my ears, no scientific tests necessary.

Brad
#10
3rd October 2003
Old 3rd October 2003
  #10
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

Well, I did that first, the easy listening method. But I didn't hear it. Maybe I should do it again.. I'm of course mixing with the lucid as master because I spent the $, but it's not like I can just
play something through it, wait for the w/c's to switch and notice.

Maybe I should go find some q-tips..
#11
3rd October 2003
Old 3rd October 2003
  #11
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

brad, I did this again last night, I think I can tell but I have to listen really hard, it's not something that obvious. I also didn't disconnect the cables, as you were saying, I just put the da7's w/c out into the genx6 and set it for distribution. Then I would switch between internal and the genx6 external clock. (This way I could get proper clocking to my rme.)
I suppose I could try a total disconnect, but I was trying to mimimize the time between listens to compare them better.
Is it possible the lucid fixes/enhances clocking on distribution only? This would be only to my rme I am assuming, because I am fairly sure the 7 grab's it's clock internally according to the diagram in the manual when it's in internal, even though it's probably seeing it's own clock coming back on the w/c in interface as well.
#12
3rd October 2003
Old 3rd October 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Brad McGowan's Avatar
 

Did you set the wordclock termination on the DA7 properly each time? If the DA7 is receiving clock it needs to be set differently than if it is sending it I think. Consult the manual to double check on that.

I would try comparing when the DA7 is set as the master clock, with the wordclock output of the DA7 just straight into the RME wordclock input. Then unplug everything and set it up so that the GENx6 is master with one wordclock cable going to DA7 and the other going to RME. Set the DA7 to external clock and set the termination per the manual.

This is really the only way to find out if your new setup is better than your old one. It's not a very good test if you are introducing gear in the chain that wasn't there before (i.e. using the Lucid for distribution).

Good luck.

Brad
#13
3rd October 2003
Old 3rd October 2003
  #13
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

Right, I will try that tonight.

I left termination on in both cases, because it turns out that's right, it's on the "end" in both cases.
#14
23rd July 2004
Old 23rd July 2004
  #14
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

BTW, brad

I baught a DAC1,

it made a huge difference.. Don't know why per say..
But it did, now I have to deal with that solo issue somehow,
I got some idea's floating around up there inbetween my ears,
but the dac sounds better for sure.. still need that lucid for
the a/d stuff around here, but darn, it was different with the dac1.
#15
23rd July 2004
Old 23rd July 2004
  #15
More cowbell!
 
natpub's Avatar
Yeah, we're all tapping our feet waiting for the ADC1 to come :-)
#16
23rd July 2004
Old 23rd July 2004
  #16
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by natpub
Yeah, we're all tapping our feet waiting for the ADC1 to come :-)
You and me both.....
#17
24th July 2004
Old 24th July 2004
  #17
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

well..
it's actually a issue for me cause I don't have a clever way
to solo channels today. great d/a, I plan on blowing
off the entire weekend getting to know my
room and speakers listening to tunes again
because of this dac, but uh, I have a problem kind of.
could work around it, but don't really want to, need a/d.
a bummer.
#18
5th August 2004
Old 5th August 2004
  #18
Gear maniac
 
drmad69's Avatar
 

So I had to do this situation last night:
And I came up with this:

I routed the rme's asio direct stuff out spif to the dac's spdif's in, so I got two channels direct that way (the solo) and then out of the aes from the da7, I took the monitor chain from the daw through the channels out the mon b to the guitar player with the full mix and then used the dac1 selector to get both. that way i got soloing with the dac1.

don't know, it worked a little better than another pair of speakers on mona. interestingly enough, though I think I found a issue, every once inawhile it sure seemed like it sounded different when things got routed over lightpipe to the da7 out the aes to the dac1 instead of directly out the spdif to the dac1, da7 is clocked to a lucid as is the rme.. interesting.. but I couldn't get cubase to solo hear a stereo out and not interrupt the player while tracking and solo without such a configuration.
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
MACHINE / So much gear, so little time!
2
Way Of The Heart / Low End Theory
15
MIKEHARRIS / High end
7

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.