SM57 Mod in the new TapeOP

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by wavcatcher

Call me crazee but,
I like that I know what to expect from a 57. If I need a mic quick during setup
I know what it'll do and how it will react. The last thing I'd want is to throw it up
and go - what the hell,where's all this low end coming from or why the heck is this signal so weak!?!.

I guess what I'm saying is, if I want a 57 I want it to be what it is because it's a solution I am familiar with and I can spend my thoughts on placement while eliminating an unknown variable. If I want something different, then I'll grab it. But I don't want to get fooled by some secret modded 57 during setup and get bit in the ass because of it.

So I'm calling on all modded 57's to come with huge labels. Stickers, color coded zip ties anything - but please mark those bastards.

Are you telling us you can't hear the difference and your eyes can't see the levels so you need a label?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[zakco]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I definitely wouldn't want to have an SM57 padded 10db, it's already low enough.

On a snare drum into an API 512 I could use about 10db less. Dunno about the low end bump though.....

-Z-

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Are you telling us you can't hear the difference and your eyes can't see the levels so you need a label?

I don't think that's it at all. He's saying that the 57 is a known entity and when you put one up you expect a certain result. When you hear something else, you'd start questioning other aspects of the source/signal path when the problem would actually be the modded mic. Personally, I'd find that annoying.
-Z-

[rainsinvelvet]

Well, I'm happy to report that I like what it did to the mic. YEs, I labelled it so you can't miss it. Will I use it on everything? Nah, but for snare drum through my api pre it was WAY better than a stock 57 plus I had fun doing the mod.

If you think it's a stupid idea then don't do it..
If you like to tinker and have plenty of 57's then try it..

it really doesn't matter

ERic

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

result has more low end, though 10dB less output. (hey, free pad!)

Wouldn't it be easier just to add some low end EQ
And Switch on the pad on the pre

[thejook]

Originally Posted by zakco

I don't think that's it at all. He's saying that the 57 is a known entity and when you put one up you expect a certain result. When you hear something else, you'd start questioning other aspects of the source/signal path when the problem would actually be the modded mic. Personally, I'd find that annoying.
-Z-

Yeah, I gotta go with Zak on this one...If I'd never read this thread (or the TapeOp article) and went to a studio I'm not too familiar with and threw up a 57 and started getting really weird guitar tones allasuden, I don't know if I would think:

"Ohhhhh. Someone must have *boiled* that 57. Of course."

[wavcatcher]

Originally Posted by zakco

I don't think that's it at all. He's saying that the 57 is a known entity and when you put one up you expect a certain result. When you hear something else, you'd start questioning other aspects of the source/signal path when the problem would actually be the modded mic. Personally, I'd find that annoying.
-Z-

Thank you Zack, you got my point.
Sometimes in the heat of a frantic setup the last thing you want to deal with is second guessing your known reliables. In this case a 57 is usually a pretty reliable mic to use in a number of applications. So, you can grab it put in a generally good position and get on to the next emergency! Now, when you've got a nice casual session and players who want to experiment with tones, Hey great, grab that modded 57 and lets re-invent the wheel. But I was just mentioning the downside of messing with a go-to standard.

And Jim, dang, you bet I use my ears for sounds and eyes for levels. My point was sometimes you getta get a sound NOW, and get on with it because the producer really wants to spend time with his diva not picking snare mics. So yes, I'm guilty, sometimes I've got to get a session moving for a producer and that requires some known starting points. I mean that's why they are paying me to engineer for them right. That I know what combinations of gear and placement will generally work in order to get a sesson going fast. Now, again, if they want to play around with options, and various tonal whimsey's then great, thats always the most fun and my favorite part of the gig mind you. But more and more sessions seem to expect an entire setup in negative time because heck it's gonna be in Pro Tools right - you can fix it there....

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Wouldn't it be easier just to add some low end EQ
And Switch on the pad on the pre

Hey - wouldn't it be a cool idea to use the ideal mic in the right spot, and not use any EQ?

Might that not potentially........ sound better?

and.... on some preamps using the pad will diminish the quality of sound slightly.

just a thought....

[DeepSpace]

Originally Posted by thejook

Yeah, I gotta go with Zak on this one...If I'd never read this thread (or the TapeOp article) and went to a studio I'm not too familiar with and threw up a 57 and started getting really weird guitar tones allasuden, I don't know if I would think:

"Ohhhhh. Someone must have *boiled* that 57. Of course."

LOL. You'd probably just conclude that someone had dropped it...

[zakco]

I just wanted to add that I don't see the mod as a bad idea (quite possibly a good one) it's just that I would expect that mic to be clearly marked as others have pointed out.....

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Wouldn't it be easier just to add some low end EQ
And Switch on the pad on the pre

If you add low EQ, the 50 hz roll-off will create a bump above the roll-off point. This causes "Juke-Box" bass. You cannot add with EQ something that's not there.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[wavcatcher]

Originally Posted by DarkSky

LOL. You'd probably just conclude that someone had dropped it...

Or used it as a hammer!

There's something special about the 57 that a live outdoor stage festival sound tech can pull a 57 out of his back pocket to pound down some nails of the stage and then use that "hammer' to mic up just about any of the instruments on the stage from drums to guitars to congas to horns. I mean come on; how many pieces of gear would you (or should you) even consider doing that with?? Gotta love it!

[Philip S Bova]

As an experiment I recorded some nice old Ludwig drums individually with a stock mexican 57, made a note of the exact mic placement. Then recorded the same drums again with the same mic after I removed its tranny. Upon A/B ing the two recordings I deduced that not only did the modified 57 have way better low end response (like it actually sounded good on a floor tom for once) but it also sounded much tighter. The stock 57 sounded flabby in comparison. That transformer really smears transients.

I'll post these recordings soon.

Philip Shaw Bova

[godcity]

i modded one. i'm digging it. sounds good on guitar and snare. more bottom. more crispiness. it's like the poorman's audix i5, which is the poorman's beyer 201. so i guess it's the really poor man's 201.
the thing i like most about this mod is that the off axis freq response sounds much smoother. nothing i hate more than the way the hi-hat sounds in a 57 on snare. it's much nicer in the modded mic.

[bickele]

Hi!

Any phantom power issues with this mod, since the tranny's gone?

b.

[Jim Williams]

Don't apply 48 volts to these. Any mismatch of the phantom distibution resistors will cause one end of the capsule's coil to be a higher voltage potential than the other, possibly frying the coil wire. Most phantom resistors are 6.81 k 1%. This could let around .25 volts difference from one end to another. If one matches these resistors to .1% that would keep the potential down to 25 mv or less.
The other effect would be to push/pull the capsule out of it's idle position, sort of like when dc offsets push/pull a speaker in a power amp.

Best to be attentive and keep that phantom switch off at all times.

Protect the Unidyne III's!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[bickele]

Thanks Jim, I thought so...

b.

[sheltersoton]

i just did the mod and tried it out i like the sound of it, its definately less smeary and thinned out in the mids... i think it'll be quite usefull!

Neil

[not_so_new]

Don't know how I missed this thread before but....

This is a old trick for sure but something that I just tried about a year ago for the first time myself. I did not bother with the boilding water I just drilled a hole right through the transformer and the glue on a 57 and a 58.....

Yes much better sounding. I use them for toms now, top only nice and meaty.

Worth the effort and by mistake I drilled right on through the side of the mic body on both mics, no I will not get them confused now.



Spend the $60 or $70 on Ebay, pick up a used one and give it a go (but don't say I told you so if you drill through your finger or something....).

[liquidorange]

one cheap sound guy i knew bought just the 57 mic head elements from shure.he would mount them in a pvc pipe and wire them up for drums.

[Jim Williams]

That was done back in the 80's here on the left coast. I remember Chad Wackerman had 2 57 elements mounted into the snare drum, with single elements mounted in the toms internally when he toured with Frank Zappa. There were XLR connectors mounted into the sides of the drums for quick set up for live.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[warhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

That was done back in the 80's here on the left coast. I remember Chad Wackerman had 2 57 elements mounted into the snare drum, with single elements mounted in the toms internally when he toured with Frank Zappa. There were XLR connectors mounted into the sides of the drums for quick set up for live.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

A friend had that same setup with Vistalites, they looked like the drums were built that way though? Didn't look custom to me anyhow, and the short versions of the SM57 were SM56's which were a little over 4" long.

http://www.shure.com/pdf/discontinued/sm56.pdf

War

[TornadoTed]

What about an SM58? Is the mod desirable with that too? I have 3 57's which I use all the time but I've got a 58 and a Beat 58 which rarlely get used.

[De chromium cob]

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

What about an SM58? Is the mod desirable with that too? I have 3 57's which I use all the time but I've got a 58 and a Beat 58 which rarlely get used.

Yes- I modded one 57 and one 58 and like both....

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

That was done back in the 80's here on the left coast. I remember Chad Wackerman had 2 57 elements mounted into the snare drum, with single elements mounted in the toms internally when he toured with Frank Zappa. There were XLR connectors mounted into the sides of the drums for quick set up for live.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Remember those Legend amps? Some of 'em had SM57 capsules behind the grille cloth. Too bad they didn't sound so good. I think they were solid-state amp/tube preamp deals.

[karatemanjohnny]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I'd rather do that than start a new one..

I am doing the SM57 mod and have a few questions. I believe my SM57 is one of the newer mexico ones; there are only two wires coming off the capsule, (green+ yellow-).

1) Can you just attach the green and yellow wires to a neutrik XLR-male connector, and then solder the ground pin to the jack's casing for grounding?

2) What kind of wire do you use? Some people have mentioned mogami wiring, do you just use the thin strands within their wiring? I have a bunch of quad mogami cable.

In my mind, it seems as if I can just take off the shure wiring, use the thin mogami wiring, attach the wiring directly to an XLR connector, and not use the mic body/handle. So I am only left with the top half of the original mic (the part that screws off).

Thanks for any help - I have never done a mod before and have done VERY little soldering or electronic work. Please forgive my ignorance on these issues.

- John

[dbbubba]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

That was done back in the 80's here on the left coast. I remember Chad Wackerman had 2 57 elements mounted into the snare drum, with single elements mounted in the toms internally when he toured with Frank Zappa. There were XLR connectors mounted into the sides of the drums for quick set up for live.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Those were probebly a May Mic setup.
May (sp?) offered those short little 57s inside snares, toms and kicks of many upscale drumkits... maybe it was the upsacale drum makers that offered the is a better way to put it.They were quality designed and built, but...

Other than the internally mounted kick mic THEY SOUND LIKE S H I T!!!!

I had to contend with them in many a live situation back during their heyday in the '80s. There is/was ZERO chance I'd use them in the studio although I have used the internally mounted D112 a top studio drummer I use has in a few of his kick drums.

The problem is that the sound inside the drum has nothing to do with what a drum sounds like outside of the shell! In fact, quite often the drummer would be an opening act and there was no time to screw around with EQ to get them close to decent drum sound. You get isolation (maybe good... maybe bad) but the sound is AWFULL! The snare sounds the worst!

Of all of the Zappa drummers I knida' think Chad had the weakest sound. Being a certified Zappa nut, I never liked Zappa's later drum sounds. the Synclavier stuff is mighty cool, but the later kits never worked for me. Chad is a great technitian however.

Dnny Brown

[karatemanjohnny]

BTW - I did the mod just as I said I would in the prior post.

It seems to work fine - signal drop, little different sound.

However I've got no reference, so I'm not sure. Also, the signal drop really doesn't help my noisy preamps - I thought the sytek mpx4aii were quieter.. oh well.

To me, it's like a little different sounding SM57 with a pad on it. Sounds like I'll be using it on snare!

[casadios]

I've got a couple of 80's SM77s around... they are quite similar to the 57s but with a shorter body, no transformer and the sound is like what you describe with the mods... fuller and less harsh on the mids. I think I read somewhere that capsules are made of different material, but there's very little info on that mic around.

I may still have some audio samples of a comparison I did some time ago with a stock 57. If anybody is interested I can post them.

Regards,
Juande

[dpel]

only works with a little salt and garlic.