Compression: What do the Veterans Do?

[RockNashville]

So the question for you is... Do you know if there is a bulletin on here that would go through some different types of compressors and typical applications? I have a pair of distressors, and I think I know what to do with them to make things sound the way I want them to sound, and I've rented a vintage LA-2A a few times for vocals, but I'd like to hear from some of the seasoned veterans about what the protocol is for typical scenarios.

Tell me what the difference is between opto, electro, variable mu, 1176's vs LA2A's etc... and when you'd use what for what.

Sounds kind of elementary, but I've grown up in an age where people have been trying out new things for so long, that we're forgetting what is the standard.

Thanks, and major cudos to the guys who've been doing this for thirty plus years.

dB

[Methlab]

There is so much info here if you just use the search button. You will find out way more then just waiting for responses.

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by RockNashville

Tell me what the difference is between opto, electro, variable mu, 1176's vs LA2A's etc... and when you'd use what for what.

Sounds kind of elementary, but I've grown up in an age where people have been trying out new things for so long, that we're forgetting what is the standard.

Elementary? It's like chess -- easy to learn, hard to master, and then it just seems to turn into what thrillfactor would call the neverending quest for that last 3 percent.

Oh, yeah -- don't forget about the plugs, and not just the simulations (which I actually shy away from anyway) -- I mean, RenComp, Smack, Impact, Analog Channel, and the highly underrated Digidesign Digirack (you know, those unassuming grey ones)...too much fun...

I'd start out with the controls -- slow vs. fast attack -- I mean, you've probably already explored a bunch of this stuff, but just in case -- try slowing the attack to let the front edge of the sound through, compress a bunch, and then slow the release so the sound doesn't sound like it's squashing in and out of the mix.

Like, for instance, maybe it's a funky clean guitar part with a lot of muting -- you know, semi-percussive, and you're looking to make it "sit" a little better but still cut through. O.K., get rid of the garbage rumble freq's (lo cut below 50-200 Hz or maybe more if you're trying to make it smaller in context of a big mix), then try a comp hitting about 3-6 dB of compression with a 70-100 ms attack time. Adjust the "makeup gain" slightly to match the bypassed level with the effected level, and hit bypass (on+off) and listen -- both to the sound and the space around it in the mix. Try the threshold -- if you keep going down (i.e.: more compression), notice how the attack time affects how the front of the pick hit comes through.

Ideally, you'd be able to run PT for a few months in an analog studio watching the compressor needles on 1178's and Vari-Mu's and listening to what they do to the sound soloed and in context as a master mixer does his work. I was lucky enough to be able to do that early on. The compressor speed is sooooo important.

[RockNashville]

Greg you freakin rock. I was beginning to think that this site was completely dominated by retailers and gear makers rather than hands on music makers. Give me a little at a time here.

Is this right?

Vocals - start with opto? which is like an LA2A?
Drums - better with the 1176 sound?
and what the hell is "electro?" got a setting for that on my RenComp
Variable MU? is this really slow? is this more for mastering stuff?

[Jim Williams]

Here's a hint: If you learn to mix without compressors, you will become a better mixer when you use them.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[GPl]

As always, direct from the internot:

http://www.barryrudolph.com/mix/comp.html

[RockNashville]

that's a freakin awesome article

[Gregg Sartiano]

Originally Posted by RockNashville

Greg you freakin rock. I was beginning to think that this site was completely dominated by retailers and gear makers rather than hands on music makers.

Nope. Actually, the retailers here are some of the best participants.

Jim Williams is right -- also, on a related note, less is more.

Approach adding compression with a sense of purpose. Is a background percussive piano or marcato (or maybe pizz?) string line "poking" out too much, but is it getting distant too quickly if you just turn it down?

Well, here are some approaches:

* Fast compression will control those attacks & smooth it out.

* Taking out certain frequency ranges will "sit" it behind whatever it's poking out OVER. Are the mids too crowded? Is that 750-1.5k where the vocal needs to be prominent? Pull that band down. One cut is worth a thousand boosts.

On a related note, EQ'ing lows AND highs out gives the illusion of distance -- this is grounded in real-world experience: if a sound is distant, the mids are pronounced (or, actually, the lows and highs become less and less prominent with 'distance'). So, if you really wanna sit it >BEHIND< the rest of the mix, try an HPF at, I dunno, 200-400 (?) and pull that LPF down to 2k-7k (or more). Ren EQ 2-band will work for this, as will adding two 1-BEQ's (Digirack). I like the Sony Oxford EQ's filters.

* Reverb will also sit it "back;" Dave Pensado was referring to reverb as "pan-front-to-back" -- I tend to agree. Again, this is an illusion grounded in our real-world perception.

* Pan it off to the side a bit.

***combine any and all of these.

A lot of the other stuff you're talking about is, well, let's say, tonal color. You could seriously get a decent (not great) mix hypothetically ONLY using the Digirack comps & EQ's (and reverbs & delays) if your fundamentals are on target -- the whole "LA2A on the vocal" thing is, like, the last 10%, and the formulas don't really work all the time, anyway. Threshold, Ratio, Attack, Release. Threshold, ratio, attack, release.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by RockNashville

Drums - better with the 1176 sound?

I just got done mixing for the night, and found the UAD-1 LA2A at about 1db max limiting to be the thing while building the mix.

Later on I turned it off and those drums came back to life (in the mix).

Listen in the mix. No matter what you're doing, listen in the mix as that's where it's going to end up anyhow.

War

PS: I am not a veteran!!!

[SoundEng1]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Here's a hint: If you learn to mix without compressors, you will become a better mixer when you use them.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Word !

[Apemandan]

I'd recommend looking through some of the guest moderator archives on gearslutz..

[Gregg Sartiano]

Add 'riding volume levels' to my list above.

And this can mean drawing lines in volume automation on PT, so don't let lack of a fader box be an excuse. A lot of times it's actually FASTER to tweak levels of words on a vocal with a trackball/mouse -- and, after you get used to the difference between adding or subtracting tenths of dB's and what it does to a vocal's place in the mix (for a given word), it can be a precise and quick way to 'sit' a vocal phrase-by-phrase.

[lucey]

There is also the notion of "when"

Compression at tracking

Compression in mixing (parallel or series)

Compression on the 2 mix at mixing

Compression/Limiting at mastering.

in combo.



So you may prefer to compress hard at tracking and ride faders at mixing with only a small amount of 2 mix compression, then limit without compression at mastering ... for one example.

Or compress nothing at tracking (or tape compression), parallel comp the vocal, bass and drum buss, with no 2 mix comp and a tape machine.

Many options.

But remember this ... DYNAMICS ARE MOVEMENT, they are your friend.





Dont overcompress to be loud ... that just sucks most of the time. Everyone has done it, learn from our mistakes.

[max cooper]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Here's a hint: If you learn to mix without compressors, you will become a better mixer when you use them.

Word 2

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Gregg Sartiano

Elementary? It's like chess -- easy to learn, hard to master, and then it just seems to turn into what thrillfactor would call the neverending quest for that last 3 percent.

I love it....