Looking For Advice on Which Platform To Select

[Sproto]

Hey guys. I am currently a PTLE user and I'm building a new space. I am considering changing platforms and this seems like a good time to do it. Any advice? I am thinking Nuendo but have never gotten any real feedback from users. I am really looking for flexibility and simplicity, I dont like the lack of selection of interfaces with PLTE. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Steve

[kurt]

Stay with PT.

[tamasdragon]

I'm a nuendo user. Choose nuendo. I used pro tools for years, that's why I switched to nuendo.
Regards Tamas Dragon

[Sproto]

Can you give me pros and cons of Nuendo? I think that would help. I am also interested in programs other than Nuendo if anyone has thoughts.

Thanks
Steve

[Blenn]

I too went the Nuendo route. Love it to pieces.

However there are differences from the PTLE, you have, and a HD system. The HD system is still a great piece of kit.

If your budget is similar toa PTLE system and you dont need post production stuff then go cubase SX. Same engine as Nuendo.

Paul Blenn

[Sproto]

How is it getting around Nuendo? I worry that it is difficult to navigate. The thing that I like about PT is that is pretty straight foreward.

[Blenn]

Hmm - that's a tough one to answer. Just like I have friends who adore Logic and I hate how un-logical it is. It's different for different people. In my opinion it's intuitive and fairly simple. But a DAW with as many features as Nuendo has a lot to learn. But the basics like recording, basic editing, etc will come very easily.

You can always setup your own key commands and work to how that would suit you better.

PAul

[manning1]

sproto....
try what i use in my sig.
(pgmusic.com for demo).
for further details/references the pg site has video intros plus
a guest book of fans like myself commenting on the product.
nuendo is a fine product and one i respect.
but with the money saved you can buy yourself some nice added studio equipment.
you might also try the powertracks forum where some ptle users hang out occasionally and ask them why they like powertracks.
a lot of tools users use powertracks particularly due to the midi features......
which are huge. also check out band in a box while your at it.
which will let you create bed guide tracks faster than traditional sequencer approaches. its been updated recently in a major way...and i dont have time to type out all the new features.

[allencollins]

I like the 'sound' of nuendo better. But the VST link and VST instruments
made me switch from PT to Nuendo. I think there are some better plugins for PT
than VST but they aint that much better to outweigh the greater benefits of Nuendo.

Even though PT wasn't the first DAW it became the staple in the industry so everyone identifies with it. I think as more 'big name' and respected folks
in the industry start using nuendo I think youll begin seeing a large shift in the to Nuendo. There are always gonna be those protolls fanatics like Gibson and Fender
but it will be interesting in the future

Although they both have their pros and cons. I truely believe a Nuendo DAW
is more cost effective and more flexible.

Just my 3 cents

[phelbin]

Something has to be said for compatibility. I work in my studio on my HD system. When I travel I take my Mbox with me. And just about any commercial studio in the country is also going to have some sort of Pro Tools rig.

Nuendo users claim there are many advantages, but I don't think they're enough to warrant leaving the rest of the industry. They also claim it's gaining so much ground that it will eclipse Pro Tools by next Tuesday...it just isn't reality.

If Pro Tools were seriously lacking in power, flexibility, or any other major feature, then my argument wouldn't hold up. But it's debatable whether Nuendo actually offers any real advantages over PT.

[Blenn]

Originally Posted by phelbin

Something has to be said for compatibility. I work in my studio on my HD system. When I travel I take my Mbox with me. And just about any commercial studio in the country is also going to have some sort of Pro Tools rig.

Nuendo users claim there are many advantages, but I don't think they're enough to warrant leaving the rest of the industry. They also claim it's gaining so much ground that it will eclipse Pro Tools by next Tuesday...it just isn't reality.

If Pro Tools were seriously lacking in power, flexibility, or any other major feature, then my argument wouldn't hold up. But it's debatable whether Nuendo actually offers any real advantages over PT.

EDL convert cures that. http://www.cuibono-soft.com/Products...nvert_v41.html

Nuendo users can use their project withing Pro-tools and vice versa.

Pro-tools is a great piece of kit. There is no doubt. I think where I get annoyed is the fact that Nuendo can and does compete for less. There is a lot of the industry that refuse to accept that. But they will soon be dinasaurs. When you have big hitters like Bob Clearmountain, Chuck Ainlay, Elliot Scheiner, Rob Hill, Hanz zimmer, to name a few, being Nuendo converts then people need to wake up to the fact that it's here. It does do what it says it can do and it does compete.

Sure there are some fetures Pro-tools is better at. Routing being one. But it's midi is awful without Logic. Nuendo is an all in one. It's getting better, it's cheaper.

In my opinion - a good studio will have both. Because they are just tools like multiple mics. But please Pro-tools boys - you are not the only one who can make records.

Paul Blenn

[aussie_techie]

go and try nuendo its the only way you will know
i find protools is the easiest software to use, i came from a cubse background and tried many other systems but as soon as i sat in front of PT i knew i wasnt going back. there was no way of knewing that from a web site or someone else opinion, like anything else you have to try it for your self
you wouldnt shell out (insert price of nuendo) for a mic without trying it first.

[RCM - Ronan]

This is sort of like a post saying "I am thinking of switching religions, which one should I choose?" You will get tons of biased answers almost every one chiming in with what ever they are using know.

I use Pro Tools because its easy and I make money with it every day. I am not a really big MIDI guy these days. If I was I would proably switch over to logic.

[blumediaprojekt]

oh man....i have a protools hd v.7 rig and had to compose/mix something in cubase sx3 the other night

what a nightmare

thats just me though

i used cubase for quite a while before switching to protools, but now having used protools for over a year, i could NEVER switch back

cubase just seemed SO clunky

plus the lack of the TDM power quickly reminded me of how great TDM really is
i can do so much more so much quicker with TDM w/o having to break for bouncing audio or freezing tracks.....which in turn i think allows one to be more creative....the tool shouldn't get in the way of the artist

just my opinion though
i'm sure you'll find MANY different opinions here
it's all in personal pref.....but hardware DSP really is a great thing
if you DO roll with cubase or nuendo, def look into the UAD-1 cards and plugins

[Blenn]

That's not really a fair comparison.

Firstly you have to pay a fortune for a HD system and a whole host of TDM plugs. The quivelant would be a bunch of UAD-1 cards and plugs and Poco stuff.

HAving Cubase with a tone of UAD-1 cards is no different than having a Pro-tools HD setup and a ton of their DSP farm cards. The work is not done by the software (Cubase) but by the DSP.

And another thing which version of cubase did you go back to? Anyhting before SX v 2.0 was crap! The old vst 5.0 days where appalling!

Actually, and I am a nuendo user, I was using cubse SX 3.0 the other day. And even though the engine is identical with Nuendo I just cannot get to grips with SX's GUI. It's horrible.

I think fair comparisons would be
PTLE - CUBASE SX (no extra DSP) becuase it's native it depends on the host computer

and

PTHD with Nuendo (Dual opteron) and a whole bunch of DSP behind it as well. This is what I have and I definately prefer this to pro-tools. Like I said before - so does Bob Clearmountain, Chuck Ainlay, Elliot Scheiner etc.


Paul

[AlphaDingo]

www.sawstudio.com

[kurt]

Originally Posted by Blenn

Firstly you have to pay a fortune for a HD system and a whole host of TDM plugs. The quivelant would be a bunch of UAD-1 cards and plugs and Poco stuff.
PTHD with Nuendo (Dual opteron) and a whole bunch of DSP behind it as well. This is what I have and I definately prefer this to pro-tools. Like I said before - so does Bob Clearmountain, Chuck Ainlay, Elliot Scheiner etc.
Paul

By the time you have 40 high class I/Os, sync, Clock, MMC etc. (as I have), the cost will be the same & you will still have to dance rumba before you can get 192 audio tracks with all needed plug-ins without a computer on its knee..
It is true that many of the old guys on their way to the sixties, began their cariere as ATARI users in the middle of 1980 working with PRO24 & late Cubase. It is true that as a composition tool Cubase/Nuendo, Logic etc. etc. was & is much more sophisticated on the MIDI/VSTi side than ProTools. The gab is not so big anymore. I get upset when people who claim to know ProTools & who always forget the little LE sign after the name claim to know all about PT. Well, they don’t. Those people you claim use Cubase/Nuendo would newer risks sitting in front of a bigband or symphony orchestra with so weak setup. Never. They use software appropriate to the composition work.
In a recording situation in a real STUDIO you need Professional TOOLS if you want to survive the whole session.
Cubase user since 1985. ProTools TDM user since 1995.

[Blenn]

Originally Posted by kurt

Those people you claim use Cubase/Nuendo would newer risks sitting in front of a bigband or symphony orchestra with so weak setup. Never. They use software appropriate to the composition work.
In a recording situation in a real STUDIO you need Professional TOOLS if you want to survive the whole session.
Cubase user since 1985. ProTools TDM user since 1995.

Kurt that's exactly what BOB CLEARMOUNTAIN does do. He uses Nuendo.

And if 1995 was the last time you used a native system then your 11 years behind of what it can and does do now.

Paul

[kurt]

Originally Posted by Blenn

Kurt that's exactly what BOB CLEARMOUNTAIN does do. He uses Nuendo.

And if 1995 was the last time you used a native system then your 11 years behind of what it can and does do now.

Paul

I know Bob C. as “close” as you. He is after all better businessmen than you & me. Don’t claim things you don’t know for sure. He is using Nuendo on the Steinberg forum & PT on Digidesign.
By the way, I have newer stopped using Cubase. It is still going strong on a separate MAC with 16 ADAT LighPipe channels going in sync & clocked to & from PT rig. It’s a great VSTi mother ship & my only MIDI machine. Still, in a live situation there is no time to restart it. That is live.

[Blenn]

Originally Posted by kurt

I know Bob C. as “close” as you. He is after all better businessmen than you & me. Don’t claim things you don’t know for sure. He is using Nuendo on the Steinberg forum & PT on Digidesign.
By the way, I have newer stopped using Cubase. It is still going strong on a separate MAC with 16 ADAT LighPipe channels going in sync & clocked to & from PT rig. It’s a great VSTi mother ship & my only MIDI machine. Still, in a live situation there is no time to restart it. That is live.

Firstly Kurt. Check the credit details on the latest (2002) album 'the naked ride home' by 'Jackson Browne'. I qoute: "all production work done in Nuendo at 24bit/96khz. Mixed by Bob Clearmountin".

Then go to Bob Clearmountains website and on his equipment list page "1
Steinberg's Nuendo Digital Audio Workstation Great compitition for PT"

Yes he uses Pro-tools as well.

And as I have said before,and contiune to keep saying, Pro-tools is excellent but it's NOT the only software that can and does get the job.

Chuck Ainlay does use it. He, right now as a guest on the Nuendo forums, is talking about how he has used it on the latest Mark Knopfler album.

Elliot Scheiner does as well.

It is even creeping in on the Hollywood post prod scene as well:
http://www.plugin.com/news/2477

The truth is, again I repeat myself, Pro-tools is excellent. BUT it is not the only tool to get the job done. And there are big pro's who DO prefer NUENDO over Pro-tools.

Proof that Native can and does compete.

Lastly Kurt - again I ask you what is your experience with modern native systems today - 2006? Cause 1995 was a very long time ago from a computer point of view. You say you still use Cubase on a seperate mac. Which Mac? Which version of Cubase?

Even the best of the best mac's dual dual core's are more than enough native power but still are not competing with Dual dual core opteron PC's.

I may be out of line here Kurt, and I apologise in advance if I am but it seems your experience's with native are not current, and like a few pro-tools guys I speak to, have no real idea just what Nuendo can do. I have heard ludicrous claims by others stating "you can't do more than 24 tracks with Nuendo and then punch in without a nose bleed"

I am totally gobsmacked by how naive some people in the pro-tools community are to what's actually out there doing the job right. These guys are supposed to be pro's yet their arrogance or stupidity is gonna leave them reeling very soon from an industry that's just going around them with them refusing or not knowing how to catch up.

Native CAN and DOES compete. FACT!

Paul

[Aearth]

OK I'll give you a different angle. My PT HD system has been out on hire for just under a month and gee I miss it. Now I don't remember anyone asking if they should hire a Nuendo system, infact the client that hired it has a Nuendo system. I'm not saying Nuendo is not good, it's just HD seems to be the prefered system.
Digidesign also has an upgrade program with hardware, who else has that.
But if you want to be completely different get a big console, 24 track reel to reel and a heap of outboard gear. Protools is looking cheap now.


Nick

[Blenn]

Nah. I'll stick with Nuendo. I'm happy as are many others.

Paul

[Aearth]

I'm committed to Protools since I forked out a heap of $$$$ and my clients ask for it so that's that. But if I had to start over I would probably go with Nuendo, I'm really not convinced with Cubase.

Nick

[RPiper]

Originally Posted by Blenn

EDL convert cures that. http://www.cuibono-soft.com/Products...nvert_v41.html

Pro-tools is a great piece of kit. There is no doubt. I think where I get annoyed is the fact that Nuendo can and does compete for less. There is a lot of the industry that refuse to accept that. But they will soon be dinasaurs. When you have big hitters like Bob Clearmountain, Chuck Ainlay, Elliot Scheiner, Rob Hill, Hanz zimmer, to name a few, being Nuendo converts then people need to wake up to the fact that it's here. It does do what it says it can do and it does compete.

Ive noticed the term Pro Tools for some people seems to mean "the only professional DAW option available".. Which is rubbish. It become a buzz term and suddenly you have a whole army of people who barely know how to operate a porta studio, saying they have to record with pro tools next time they go into a studio.. I think they assume the whole concept of DAW editing and FX plugins etc is exclusive to Pro Tools..

It gained speed in the mid 90s through use of its DSP cards and being able to run up enough FX to mix properly when CPUs were barely pushing 200 mghz.. But thats kinda history nowdays and there are many options which are worthwhile.. Also the concept of DSP farming isnt exclusive to Digidesign but people seem to act like it is..

Im not saying its not great.. HD is kick ass, but my point is so are many other things and I find it hard to swallow when i hear people relatively new to the DAW world tell me they have a 002 because "you cant beat pro tools"..

[Andi Rauscher]

these DAW wars really start to bore me...
Think really hard about what you will / want / need to do with your system; and then choose from that.
No one can tell you what to do.
I have a fully loaded PT HD3 Accell rig here since December, have used PT LE before for 1,5 years, and before that Nuendo for 1 year.
There is no right or wrong, no better or worse.
Fact is, there is no system more stable than PT HD.
If you NEED this, you only will know.
Think also about upgrading to a basic PTHD rig (HD1 with 96io...).
and good luck with your place!!

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by Andi Rauscher

these DAW wars really start to bore me...

Originally Posted by Andi Rauscher

There is no right or wrong, no better or worse

Originally Posted by Andi Rauscher

Fact is, there is no system more stable than PT HD.

Hey bro, these statements seem a bit contradictory don't you think?...

How is there any possible way to conclude what 'system' is more or less 'stable' than the next?... and consider how fast things change.

You can find equal success and horror stories about any DAW. (Of course cept' probably RADAR)

Your point about choosing a DAW based on needs is spot on. IMO.... We have an abundance of excellent choices today...and there is just no way you can go wrong. They all provide excellent results.

Much Respect,

[RPiper]

Originally Posted by Andi Rauscher

these DAW wars really start to bore me...

Than read and reply to other threads.

[dirren]

Just some thoughts:

Originally Posted by Aearth

Digidesign also has an upgrade program with hardware, who else has that.

Digi has to have it as they use dedicated hardware. Nobody else is interested in offering that as most DAWs nowdays can use whatever i/o card(s).

Originally Posted by phelbin

Nuendo users claim there are many advantages, but I don't think they're enough to warrant leaving the rest of the industry.

Why would choosing Nuendo be leaving the industry? Most DAWs are capable of saving files and projects in multiple formats. Being able to adapt to different platforms is important.

Originally Posted by Blenn

I think fair comparisons would be PTLE - CUBASE SX

Comparing a < 40 channel system that needs specific hardware with a software capable of 100+ tracks on any soundcard doesn't sound very fair to me.

Originally Posted by Aearth

But if I had to start over I would probably go with Nuendo, I'm really not convinced with Cubase.

Cubase SX 3 and Nuendo share 98% of the features and capabilities, so it shouldn't matter much unless you are scoring for film and/or doing surround work.

I completely love working with PT. But Nuendo, at least to me, had a more acceptable price point versus feature set. That plus a working delay compensation system made me decide to go down that road...

/D