Can't capture the mids on a Django jazz guitar: mic?

binarymilton · 22nd August 2011

I have a Saga Gitane Macaferri jazz guitar. It's very Django-ey and definitely has that sound. Sounds somewhere in between a classical guitar and a National.

It has nice bright pingy top-end and a boomy warm bass but it's a bit scooped. Not a lot in the middle.

I'm struggling to mic it for certain songs without a ton of EQ.

I have a pair of Coles 4038s, which work quite well positioned above the guitar, especially on songs where most of the playing is up the neck. But songs played lower, that don't go far up the neck sound really scooped, like someone's removed all the mid-range.

AKG C414B gets those mids much better and would probably be the answer but it mellows the sound out too much. To check my ears weren't being over-fussy I tried hitting the strings as viciously as I possibly could, but the recorded results sounded like a gentle acoustic song; it was softening the transients way too much.

I have a C451B around somewhere which I'm pinning my hopes on.

Meanwhile, any suggestions?

doorknocker · 22nd August 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by binarymilton

I have a Saga Gitane Macaferri jazz guitar. It's very Django-ey and definitely has that sound. Sounds somewhere in between a classical guitar and a National.

Maybe it's a matter of too much roundness from the 4038 and/or compression.

I never recorded a Macaferri-type guitar but on dobro I found that the 4038 is way too soft sounding. Personally I really hate obvious compression on dobro/National-type guitars and maybe it's similar here. With 'compression' I don't just mean a compressor per se but also the attenuated transient character that you get with 4038s and other ribbon mics. It can work wonders on drums/guitar amps/etc but it may not be the right choice here.

Try the 451 and maybe bandpass the track later if you want a more 'aunthentic' Django sound. Remember that those beautiful old recordings were anything but a true representation of the natural sound of the guitar because of the amplification and the general state of recording technology at that time. Maybe some gentle overdrive/distortion might help.

If you still can't get the sound you want then I would do the obvious - use a different guitar!

binarymilton · 22nd August 2011

well in defence of the Coles, the reason it was in front of that guitar is that it's worked well on several previous songs on that instrument over the weekend.

But drawing a blank on this one particular song. Suspect some SDCs are probably the answer. The song's quite low all round - low notes on guitar, low male vocal. The vocal mic wasn't working either. Just basically took a raincheck on it and moved onto something else.

(I could do with buying a Parlour guitar at some point though - reckon that would kill on this track. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen this year.)

df1587 · 22nd August 2011

It has to do with mic placement more than the microphone. Use cans to listen as you do mic placement.....I set the mic closer to the soundhole for rhythm and pointed toward the bridge on the treble string are for solo work. You can get the Maccaferri honk pretty good that way, even with the Grand Bouche models.

Having said that, the Modele Jazz with longer scale and small soundhole gives a much better honk due to its design. Some guitars just have that distinct sound.

Lee Cardan · 22nd August 2011

keep in mind that compression will further bring into focus the most prominent frequencies. I can see the 4038 working for your purpose as it'll round off the tops a little, maybe cut a little low end and broad boost a few dB around the mid frequency you want to emphasize, then compress a bit and see what happens. could try a similar thing with a Senn 441, but you have to keep really still while playing

In saying that, if the guitar isn't sounding right in the first place then another guitar is really the only option

binarymilton · 22nd August 2011

Cheers. I'll do a bit more mic re-positioning this evening. Just got a bit weary of it after a while.

Let's put this another way: any suggestions of mics with a substantial 500HZ/600HZ ish bump?
(for future reference...)

binarymilton · 4th February 2012

Ressurrecting this old thread, for a belated conclusion: AT4047.

I got one on trial for 2 weeks (using the First Impressions scheme), plugged it in and... bingo!

I placed it in front of the soundhole and it grabs EXACTLY the sound I want, no EQ. I had been getting reasonably close to that sound by placing a Coles facing the wood in between the soundhole and the bridge, and a c451 on the neck.

But the 4047 seems to capture exactly that sound, only more clearly and precisely.

22nd August 2011	#1
binarymilton Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 1,389 Thread Starter	Can't capture the mids on a Django jazz guitar: mic? I have a Saga Gitane Macaferri jazz guitar. It's very Django-ey and definitely has that sound. Sounds somewhere in between a classical guitar and a National. It has nice bright pingy top-end and a boomy warm bass but it's a bit scooped. Not a lot in the middle. I'm struggling to mic it for certain songs without a ton of EQ. I have a pair of Coles 4038s, which work quite well positioned above the guitar, especially on songs where most of the playing is up the neck. But songs played lower, that don't go far up the neck sound really scooped, like someone's removed all the mid-range. AKG C414B gets those mids much better and would probably be the answer but it mellows the sound out too much. To check my ears weren't being over-fussy I tried hitting the strings as viciously as I possibly could, but the recorded results sounded like a gentle acoustic song; it was softening the transients way too much. I have a C451B around somewhere which I'm pinning my hopes on. Meanwhile, any suggestions?

22nd August 2011	#5
Lee Cardan Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,464	keep in mind that compression will further bring into focus the most prominent frequencies. I can see the 4038 working for your purpose as it'll round off the tops a little, maybe cut a little low end and broad boost a few dB around the mid frequency you want to emphasize, then compress a bit and see what happens. could try a similar thing with a Senn 441, but you have to keep really still while playing In saying that, if the guitar isn't sounding right in the first place then another guitar is really the only option __________________ Lee Cardan www.easternblocstudios.com

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

22nd August 2011	#4
df1587 Gear interested Joined: Oct 2006 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 16	It has to do with mic placement more than the microphone. Use cans to listen as you do mic placement.....I set the mic closer to the soundhole for rhythm and pointed toward the bridge on the treble string are for solo work. You can get the Maccaferri honk pretty good that way, even with the Grand Bouche models. Having said that, the Modele Jazz with longer scale and small soundhole gives a much better honk due to its design. Some guitars just have that distinct sound.

4th February 2012	#7
binarymilton Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 1,389 Thread Starter	Ressurrecting this old thread, for a belated conclusion: AT4047. I got one on trial for 2 weeks (using the First Impressions scheme), plugged it in and... bingo! I placed it in front of the soundhole and it grabs EXACTLY the sound I want, no EQ. I had been getting reasonably close to that sound by placing a Coles facing the wood in between the soundhole and the bridge, and a c451 on the neck. But the 4047 seems to capture exactly that sound, only more clearly and precisely.