IS the Oasis worth it?

[jindrich]

Having not tried one yet, wich should definetely make me keep my mouth shut, my only problem with the Oasys is the price. I dont even want to think about what a fully loaded akai S1000 or S6000 or emuIII or whatever synth of the year cost when introduced. And they all have been clearly outdated both in sound and features.
Hey, just a simple iBook, which comes free with Garageband3, and a $99 midiKB runs around what a $200,000 Synclavier could do then.
That's not the case for instance with a $3,000 guitar or amp, they hold their value both in sound and dollars.

I personally think that the age of Keyboards, as we knew them, is gone. They're Dinosaurs which have been superseded by a new animal: computers. After all they were not that dissimilar to a computer, one that run a single program (play sounds) from a OS in ROM.

2-8MB of sounds? Current libraries run on the GigaBytes league.
It's the way it is. The only exception to this are the old analogue synths, they still can't be replicated with digital technology.


Thus my advice of having a decent hardware KB with nice touch and sounds that play instantly, a stable laptop (Mac, which btw does a thousand other things) and soft thingies/libraries -or just build your own-, plus a decent fast interface with nice converters.
If you need filters, i'd say get them from an analog fx processor, or get an old synth, minimoog.. you_name_it, and you're done.


but what do i know? I'm not peter gabriel, I just studied economics.


PS: i know it's sad for the KB manufacturers, now they have to compete with software, something people can unfortunately pirate relatively easy leaving no money for anyone.

My opinion is that current KBs are just the "dongle", the only secure way to sell softsynths/ ROM libraries.

[Dirty Halo]

Ok, I stand slightly corrected...but I STILL can get thousands for ANY one of my Moogs, Prophets or Jupiters (and yes, I own other hardwars synths, so I'm not only retro).

So 20 years later I can still get thousands for these synths PLUS they still sound amazing... what will the Oasys be worth even a year or two from now?

Really.

And lastly, why are you even arguing with me? Is the Oasys SO succesful that I'm the only one? Why not stop arguing and start listening to the people who buy, play and make albums with your gear?

What if you made a synth that was a cross between real analogue technology and then augmented by updatable soft like Absynth? THAT would be a cool sounding keyboard?!!

-a

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com

[Sharp11]

As a professional and an Oasys owner, I frankly don't care about its retail value, I only care about what it can do for me now in terms of new avenues to creativity and financial rewards.

I've been using the Oasys for about four months now, day in and day out, and aside from a couple of serious reliability issues (I'm on Oasys number 3, currently), the thing has paid for itself!!!

I'm just beginning to really delve into the Karma aspects of this machine, as a composer, I love this whole sort of "random" approach I can bring into my music - I may start off with a Karma pattern and not keep it at all, but I may end up writing something I'd never have written without it - when one considers the fact that a well placed television cue can earn considerable money, tools like the Oasys can really pay off in a hurry.

Perhaps the folks whining about the cost are not the intended market.

Ed

[Duardo]

If you're looking at the Oasys (or anything like that) as an investment, I'd say the only way it would make sense would be if you were able to make money with it right now. If so and it's able to pay for itself (and then some) over the course of its life then the resale value shouldn't be a concern. Sure, it helps if you can get a good percentage of what you paid for it on the back end but if it's paid for itself already that's just icing on the cake. I apologize that I don't remember who I'm paraphrasing but a house won't buy you an Oasys, but an Oasys can buy you a house.

Don't get me wrong...the Oasys isn't worth its price to me, because I suck as a keyboardist and I couldn't use it to bring people to my studio. I've heard it and thought it sounded great (most likely because someone else was playing it more than anything else) and I can see the value in it, but it's not for me (and based on the price, not for most people). More than anything else I'm fascinated by how angry people get about its price...there are obviously plenty of people who are willing to pay what they're asking for it, so why does its very existence get people so riled up?

-Duardo

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

So 20 years later I can still get thousands for these synths PLUS they still sound amazing... what will the Oasys be worth even a year or two from now?

The current OASYS will undoubtedly be worth somewhat less than its sales price today, just as with your analog synths - since that's what happens with technology. I trust that it will still sound great and be useful, however - just as it is today.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

And lastly, why are you even arguing with me?

I don't like to see mis-statements stay out there un-corrected.

I could ask instead - why are *you* arguing with *me*? You're the one who started off by trash-talking.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Why not stop arguing and start listening to the people who buy, play and make albums with your gear?

I listen to and talk with my users all the time, and have been doing so on the net for many years.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

What if you made a synth that was a cross between real analogue technology and then augmented by updatable soft like Absynth? THAT would be a cool sounding keyboard?!!

Personally, I don't use any analog synths at the moment. I sold my Jupiter 6 when I was confident that OASYS did everything I needed from it; my JX-8P and Matrix 6r are in the closet and behind the couch, respectively. (We also keep a mini and a prophet around the office, and bring in others from time to time.)

Waldorf has made a couple of products which are similar to what you suggest, however - the Q+ and their filterbank. The latter could be used in conjunction with soft-synths, I believe.

- Dan

[GYang]

This is Gearslutz and we discuss piece of synth (well more than just synth) that costs $ 8500.
Yes this is also for me a pain threshold for spending on sound source (I don't need samplers, sequencers, effects as I have much better out of such all in one solution), so considering that I look after THE BEST OF THE BEST I already spent 8000 $ + for fully loaded Omega 8.
8 voices + 4 different filters, 0 RAM, no effects = 8000 $+ =best spent cash on sound source (similar to some mics, guitars, Lexicon reverbs etc.).
In same time I can't imagine to shell out 8k for Korg, whetever is packed in it.
Sorry, I am fed up.

[Synth80s]

Maybe I'm confused, but there are an awful lot of strong opinions about how the OASYS isn't worth $8,500 because (insert kickass analog synth here) sounds better. Am I the only one who sees that the OASYS isn't designed to replace an Omega 8? I see apples and oranges here.

Ask yourself this: if you were a successful musician/producer (e.g. one who could afford the OASYS) who frequently travels and wanted to compose/arrange/record on the road, wouldn't an all-in-one system offering multiples forms of synthesis, recording, a good-sized screen and a good user interface be of value to you? Understandably, some might prefer a powerful laptop loaded with soft synths and some minimal outboard gear (firewire audio/midi adapter, USB keyboard), but I think the idea of a powerful, expandable all-in-one workstation is valuable for some people. Obviously it's not for everyone, but as long as it sells well enough to meet Korg's expectations and it proves useful to those who purchase it, why hate it? I think an OASYS and some good Sennheiser headphones could make for an ideal hotel room scratch pad.

It seems there's a lot of Gearslut respect for variety when it comes to expensive boutique pre-amps, compressors and mics, but some people seem to have a low tollerance for the OASYS. I don't get it. If you don't like it, don't buy one, but don't slag it off for not being a vintage analog synth!

-Synth80s

[goldphinga]

what it boils down to for me is korg spent loads on marketing the oasys as something incredible,keeping us waiting, adverts etc etct-its just a high specd workstation. The oasys is no hotel room scratchpad, the sheer size of the thing makes this impossible and this is added to with a case of course. I think a few years down the line korg will see this as a mistake, same as the overpriced and ugly radias. I believe imo they have lost their way in terms of creating exciting synths (not workstations) and too much goes into cosmetics, and unnecessary features. The phrase jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind with the oasys. I am saddened that a company such as korg would sink so much into this keyboard and not bring out anything that is really different.Same goes for the other big players. If they are not careful the same will become of Korg,Yamaha,and Roland that has happened to the major record labels. The consumers and players will move in droves to the more exciting and smaller companies that really listen to their customers needs and produce more cutting edge and risky designs. The workstation is a dead format, computers offer so much more for much less; i dont ever see myself wasting money on a digital hardware synth ever again.

[Vermeer]

Originally Posted by Synth80s

It seems there's a lot of Gearslut respect for variety when it comes to expensive boutique pre-amps, compressors and mics, but some people seem to have a low tollerance for the OASYS. I don't get it. If you don't like it, don't buy one, but don't slag it off for not being a vintage analog synth!

-Synth80s

I totally agree with you here. As I said previously on this thread, I think that some of us hate it mostly because we hate not being able to afford or justify buying it. I saw the same thing here on Gearsultz when the Digi Icon first came out. Many pros bought one and others just kept going on and on about what they could buy for that price (used SSL, Euphonix, etc.).

I've got a friend who paid 15,000K for a 60's strat. For me, as a guitarist, this is pure folly and a total misuse of resources, but for him it was a lifelong dream. You should not judge matters of the heart ;)

As a sidenote, I think Korg should definitely invest in a professional serie of DVD courses. Similar to Charles Dye's MILAR serie. I know this costs money, but it would help reduce the anxiety of buying such daunting piece of gear.

Vermeer

[Synth80s]

While I agree with some of your points to an extent, I don't think everything is so black and white.

Originally Posted by goldphinga

The oasys is no hotel room scratchpad, the sheer size of the thing makes this impossible and this is added to with a case of course.

Depends on who you are. I know Thomas Bailey (Thompson Twins) often brought his Fairlight with him when he traveled. Lots of prominent artists/prducers spend days/weeks/months here and there. The OASYS isn't huge and it's not beastly heavy. The 76-key weighs just under 60 pounds (sans case). I worked with a producer in the late '90s who used to travel with a giant Mac tower, a 19" CRT, a MIDI controller and a rack of gear all packed into 2 tall road cases. An OASYS on a stand, desktop or countertop isn't really that unwieldy for a guy who'se used to dealing with that.

Originally Posted by goldphinga

I am saddened that a company such as korg would sink so much into this keyboard and not bring out anything that is really different.

I think it's different because it has a dedicated, upgradeable OS based on a Linux kernel, so modes of synthesis and recording features can be added in software, not in hardware. The architecture is much less limited than that of a Triton or Motif. I view it more as a modern Synclavier or Fairlight, but much easier and less expensive to upgrade.

Originally Posted by goldphinga

The workstation is a dead format, computers offer so much more for much less; i dont ever see myself wasting money on a digital hardware synth ever again.

I've got some friends who work in music equipment sales. The Tritons and Motifs still move off the shelves primarily because they're much more reliable than most computer-based setups and they simply work out of the box with no loading and configuration of software, drivers, etc. I've been using DAWs since the age of the 286, so I'm no technophobe, but I know a lot of musicians want to steer clear of computers as best they can. Computers are obviously prominent in music, but a lot of people use them in conjunction with DAWs, not as a total replacement. Yamaha's Studio Connections work great since they purchased Steinberg.

If it fails, it fails, but I give Korg credit for trying to develop an elegant machine designed to streamline the process of making and recording music. I think it all comes down to the UI.

-Synth80s

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

The phrase jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind with the oasys.

I'd encourage another look at the synthesis side of things, then. 84 voices of high-spec'd VA that competes easily on both audio quality and features with the german VAs. Best available realtime PCM interpolation. Hammond model that's an improved version of the already well-received CX-3. Plucked string model that I'd encourage folks to compare with any other modeling synth, in both features and audio quality. Dynamic allocation (including overage protection) between all of these models, which no computer-based system offers. All modulation updated every 32 samples, and locked to the sample rate (no slowing down when you play a lot of notes). Etc., etc. I don't think it's possible to support the "master of none" premise on these counts.

[edit - added comments below:]

I think some may assume that because it's a workstation, it's somehow not a synthesizer. That's not the way we see it at Korg R&D, however, and I *hope* that's not the way it sounds or plays. We've worked on the Wavestation and the OASYS PCI; we did the synth parts of OASYS, in cooperation with the workstation team at Korg Inc. in Japan. All of our work has been focused on making it a kick-ass *synthesizer,* with different synthesis methods that sound as good as we can make them, and which interoperate smoothly. Yes, it also has a sequencer and HDR, but it can just as easily be used as a synth with computer-based sequencing/DAW systems -- which, as far as I know, is how many use their Tritons as well.

- Dan

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by goldphinga

what it boils down to for me is korg spent loads on marketing the oasys as something incredible,keeping us waiting, adverts etc etct-its just a high specd workstation. The oasys is no hotel room scratchpad, the sheer size of the thing makes this impossible and this is added to with a case of course. I think a few years down the line korg will see this as a mistake, same as the overpriced and ugly radias. I believe imo they have lost their way in terms of creating exciting synths (not workstations) and too much goes into cosmetics, and unnecessary features. The phrase jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind with the oasys. I am saddened that a company such as korg would sink so much into this keyboard and not bring out anything that is really different.Same goes for the other big players. If they are not careful the same will become of Korg,Yamaha,and Roland that has happened to the major record labels. The consumers and players will move in droves to the more exciting and smaller companies that really listen to their customers needs and produce more cutting edge and risky designs. The workstation is a dead format, computers offer so much more for much less; i dont ever see myself wasting money on a digital hardware synth ever again.

Yes to all the above and if you don't want to listen and rather argue, then you may find yourselves in the obsolete club.

Yes, I can afford this keyboard, quite easily, but I look at it and see nothing really new.

And as for those comparing it to a new Fairlight or Synclavier, uh...this STILL doesn't compete sonically (nor even the same animal)...and yes, I own both of those too.

The comparing to vintage synth argument, apples & oranges...used only to point out the relevance of some technology and it sound compared to other flavors of the month.

And yes I own those AND plenty of modern synths of all kinds. Pro Tools HD, soft synths, granular synths, etc.

THE POINT?

Korg... you aren't listening.

How are sales? Is the Oasys THE best you guys can do or was it an idea to package and re-package previously developed work and market?

Hey, I understand, you're defending your job, but your R & D job should be "Research & Development," not "Repackage & Dismiss."

Hey, I'm done here. If the few people who already bought one want to make themselves feel justified and go on and on, fine, a few of us care and want to see sommething REALLY new... the others (of us) stopped bothering to even check this post out and now look to the smaller more interesting designers, like someone else here said.

Yes, we're Gearslutz here and will pay a ton of money for agreat mic pre, compressor, whatever...but the key word there is "great."

I have nothing invested in spending my time here, other than I'd love to see the future of gear be better, but if that's not valued, I'll use it somewhere else.

-a

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

And as for those comparing it to a new Fairlight or Synclavier, uh...this STILL doesn't compete sonically (nor even the same animal)...and yes, I own both of those too.

You're right; the Fairlight and Synclavier's wave sequencing, VA, hammond modeling, physical modeling, etc. are far superior. Oh, wait, I got that wrong; the Fairlight and Synclavier don't even do any of those things (though Synclav system R has basic, additive-based wavetables).

I'm curious - before making the statement above, did you actually place the OASYS (not your OASYS PCI) up against the Fairlight and Synclav in your studio, or in anyone else's?

Please note also that I spent a summer on a big Synclav with Poly, and owned a small Synclav system as well (FM only, if you please).

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

How are sales?

As has been noted, they're pretty good so far, and the price has remained steady over the year it's been out. I'm not in sales, though; I do product concepts, specs, manuals etc.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Is the Oasys THE best you guys can do or was it an idea to package and re-package previously developed work and market?

Hey, I understand, you're defending your job, but your R & D job should be "Research & Development," not "Repackage & Dismiss."

WTF? Either you haven't been reading what I've written, or you're willfully disregarding it to continue an argument. If anyone else is curious, see my posts above; it's quite difficult how anyone who knows much about OASYS could characterize it as a "repackaging."

I'm sorry that you have a negative impression of the product, however. Different strokes for different folks.

- Dan

[Sharp11]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

And as for those comparing it to a new Fairlight or Synclavier, uh...this STILL doesn't compete sonically (nor even the same animal)...and yes, I own both of those too.

Nonsense, I spent the entire year of 1985 working on a Synclavier - it was pretty hot in its day, but it's nothing like what's available today (I still have tapes of our work produced on that machine).

As I recall, it had a pretty nice additive synth engine, using four tone modules, but its sampling was primitive as was its sequencer etc. The mono sampling option cost 60k and the stereo, an astounding 250k - and that was in 1985 dollars.

The separate CPU was the size of a small refrigerator.

Besides, it's a dead product, long dead.

Ed

[Duardo]

Speaking of Korg bringing out something new and innovative...Dan, any chance of the Wavedrum ever coming back? There was a product that was way ahead of its time...

-Duardo

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by Duardo

Speaking of Korg bringing out something new and innovative...Dan, any chance of the Wavedrum ever coming back? There was a product that was way ahead of its time...

-Duardo

I liked the Wavedrum; it was made by some very clever folks at Korg Inc., using our SynthKit for algorithm design. But, sadly, it didn't sell well at all.

We had one around the office for a few years; I was truly bummed when I found out that someone else had bought it.

It would be cool to make a new version based on the same concept (percussive audio input through DSP processes), but I don't know of any plans to do so right now...

- Dan

[Dirty Halo]

Are you SERIOUSLY going to tell em that the sonics, converters and build quality is better than a Synclavier? No way!

And no, the Synclavier wasn't a jack of all trades box like the Oasys.

It was cutting edge NEW technology and pushing the evelope in ideas and sonics...I'm saying that the Oasys isn't doing that nor can it still compete on build, just take ONE D/A converter and compair the two!

You're right, the Synclavier was expensive, I don't think anyone could even afford to build them today, but thank god someone did!

-a

[Dirty Halo]

Are you SERIOUSLY going to tell em that the sonics, converters and build quality is better than a Synclavier? No way!

And no, the Synclavier wasn't a jack of all trades box like the Oasys.

It was cutting edge NEW technology and pushing the evelope in ideas and sonics...I'm saying that the Oasys isn't doing that nor can it still compete on build, just take ONE D/A converter and compair the two!

You're right, the Synclavier was expensive, I don't think anyone could even afford to build them today, but thank god someone did!

-a

[kclisby]

My humble opinion....

The oasis can do everything..... and do it pretty well i might add... after sitting down with a korg rep for hours and basically being shown numerous of options in West LA music a while ago....

Honestly, there are a lot of other things out there that can do most of the options of this board better... but you have to put that together and make it work.... This thing is all in one, right there in your face, no compatability issues....

Will i buy one, probably not, but if I was someone wanting an all in one solution with great sounds for a studio, then maybe?? But I could probably make $8000 go a little farther....

Also, I have tons of keyboard sounds right now.... Motif, triton, roland, emu, etc... but i will say there was this one piano patch.... It was a damper piano setting that blew my mine that day.... The best piano i've ever heard on a keyboard... It was like playing a real one the way the sound resonates after hitting and sustaining a lush chord... you choose.. minor, major, diminish, whatever... that one patch really surprised me.... And i always thought i loved the motif es pianos.....

Dr. Clisby

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Are you SERIOUSLY going to tell em that the sonics, converters and build quality is better than a Synclavier? No way!

I didn't start this comparison - in fact, I don't think it's particularly useful, since the Synclavier, while innovative in many ways in its time, is such old technology at this point. But, since you ask, I'll respond.

First - I haven't said anything about build quality. However, I think that you'll find the build quality of OASYS to be pretty high; you can check it out in a store and see for yourself.

In re sonics: as noted elsewhere, one of the things we're particularly proud of with OASYS is the bandlimited interpolation of the PCM oscillators, which results in very low aliasing. See this comment from the Sound On Sound review of the Prophet 2000, in re aliasing and the Synclavier:

From http://www.analoghell.com/studio//p2...age=sos-review
From subsequent use in studios I have found the Prophet sampler to be second to none in terms of accuracy and flexibility. It has the fidelity of an AMS with the analogue processing capability of the Emulator. It suffers less from aliasing than the Synclavier when you replay the sample lower than the original pitch and yet any aliasing that starts to creep in can be quickly and easily dealt with using keyboard-tracking filters which the Synclavier system doesn't have.

And, in re converters: converter technology has advanced significantly in the twelve years or so since NED ceased production on Synclavs. I've just checked the Synclavier reference manual, and while it's very specific on pinouts and other service-oriented information, it doesn't offer much information on audio specifications per se, especially for the outputs. All of their converters were 16-bit, although they enhanced the effective dynamic range of the outputs by using analog amp stages post-conversion.

OASYS uses OASYS uses TI PCM1793 converters for all analog outputs:
24-bit
192kHz (OASYS currently uses 48kHz)
Dynamic Range: 113 dB
THD+N: 0.001%

I can't comment on the relative sound quality in comparison to Synclav Poly voices, since I haven't listened to the two side-by-side. The Synclav will run at up to 100kHz, which would be an advantage in some cases. On the other hand, OASYS uses 32-bit floating-point processing, and 24-bit converters, both of which should reduce quantization noise.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

And no, the Synclavier wasn't a jack of all trades box like the Oasys.

???

Synclavier: Multiple synthesis types (sampling, FM/additive synthesis), sequencing, HDR

OASYS: Multiple synthesis types (listed elsewhere), sequencing, HDR

There are many differences betwee the two, and I don't think that an x vs. y comparison between them would be particularly meaningful, but the general concepts - at least from a music production standpoint - are pretty similar.

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

It was cutting edge NEW technology and pushing the evelope in ideas and sonics...I'm saying that the Oasys isn't doing that

I believe that this has been addressed in detail in previous messages in this thread and elsewhere. Since you keep returning to this, however - in what ways do you feel that what the OASYS offers is not new technology? if you talk about details, then we can address them one by one if you like.

- Dan

[David R.]

Let me preface this by saying I have the utmost respect for Dan Phillips. He has walked through the fire of the Oasys PCI newsgroup at the worst of times and never lost his cool. It's great to have him here as a Gearslut. Welcome Dan!

Korg, I'm not so hot on. They stranded users of the Oasys PCI card by not releasing drivers for OSX and Win2K. They would not even open the code so someone outside could make a driver and keep the fan base alive. Many people paid $2000 for the card.

Great card, great sounds, it is sitting unused in my studio. I'm not going to set up another computer in the studio just to run OS 9 and the Oasys.

Years before, Korg also stranded me with the 1212 i/o (remember those?) They would not release an ASIO2 driver.

[Dirty Halo]

Ok, fine. You win. Good job.

You say I missed the point...perhaps you did.

Only time will tell.

Let's see what stays int he history books and valued in music, the Oasys or the Synclavier.

Lastly, you missed the boat alltogether, you had a user asking for more relevant product for us, the users and all you really did was justify and defend.

-a

[Dan Phillips]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Let's see what stays int he history books and valued in music, the Oasys or the Synclavier.

Lastly, you missed the boat alltogether, you had a user asking for more relevant product for us, the users and all you really did was justify and defend.

As you know very well, I didn't bring up the comparison between the two. I asked you some direct questions, which you did not answer; I'll still be happy to read your replies. I certainly did correct a number of misconceptions and inaccuracies; an accurate and informed discussion can only benefit this forum. Note that I'm not the only one disagreeing with you, either. I genuinely don't understand where your hostility is coming from.

If you have specific things that you'd like to see in our products, then I'm very willing to listen. I did notice your request for a hybrid analog/digital machine, but that is unfortunately impractical for various reasons (expense, lack of flexibility, lack of polyphony, integration issues with onboard effects, and finally I think our digital filters are already quite good and so obviate the need for this in the first place).

- Dan

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Lastly, you missed the boat alltogether, you had a user asking for more relevant product for us, the users and all you really did was justify and defend.

I'm not sure you speak for "us, the users" any more than I speak for "us, the users." The key is recognizing that we each carry our own biases and opinions that may or may not be shared by everyone and may or may not result in a profitable product. All major companies do market research when they're brainstorming about and designing new products -- if there were thousands of people clammoring for an analog Absynth, someone would be producing it by now. The most likely answer is that there's either no demand or not sufficient demand to justify a profitable product in the marketplace. Selling musical tools is a business just like selling music is a business.

It's really quite simple: if you don't like the OASYS, buy something else, but what's the point of badgering a company who is trying hard to make a viable musical tool? Like you've said in many posts, there is lots of competition out there -- that's a good thing. I love real analog (old and new), but I'm not going to criticize Korg for trying to design the ultimate self-contained workstation even as 100% computer-based rigs are becoming more common. The big 3 (that's Yamaha, Roland and Korg in my book) aren't going out of business any time soon and they're not going to be overtaken by (excellent) boutique manufacturers like Moog, DSI or anyone else making synths that might appeal more to you. Remember Waldorf? Sequential Circuits? Excellent synths, bad business management.

As far as Korg goes, I've never been a fan of the Triton line (I personally didn't dig any of their workstations after the T series), but I'm not going to ignore the enormous success they've had in the marketplace. The Electribes have sold very well from what I understand and I think the Legacy Collection is great (I use it all the time). Why not focus on the positive, or better yet, start your own company and bury Korg with your earth-shattering product?

-Synth80s

[DaveH]

I’ve read this thread with interest.

I have no comment about Oasys one way or the other.
My comment is the synth business is in a sad state of affairs.

So much time and energy focused on bringing out software emulations
and even hardware DSP emulations of old technology.

(I have a DX7, Prophet-5, Access Virus T1, Korg Triton, Roland V-synth,
Roland FantomXR, Nord Rack3, Nord Modular G2,Yamaha Motif, Poly-Evolver over 40 synths here in all).

As a new product designer I saw Karma like software in Israel in
the late 80’s

Where are the REALLY new breakthroughs????????????

It is time to stop emulating old stuf. (Yes it sounds good, but
is it slowing down progress)?

Time to stop patching together a bunch of "pieces" of exsisting stuff
and calling it "new".

============= Raving stops ========================

My answer to initial question still is, don’t borrow money.
If you must have it, work hard, save, pay cash !!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, what a boring answer ..........................

[duvalle]

i did test the oasys for some hours. i thought it got some very very nice sounds. but for the price it's something for the big studios imho which don't care for money. i do have to watch my budget! so because of the price i would not / can not get it.

but one problem for all who gonna get it, will be the loss of value in the future. i personally got very angry about korgs price policy (read here) and lost € 400 in a very short time. ofcourse it's "only" 400 - but when going for something highpriced it could easy be thousands ... so i don't trust them anymore.

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by DaveH

Where are the REALLY new breakthroughs????????????

It is time to stop emulating old stuf. (Yes it sounds good, but
is it slowing down progress)?

When you look at the more innovative synths of the last 20 years, most have not sold well. The Kawai K5000 comes to mind as does the Yamaha FS1R. I bought one of each when they were being blown out at crazy prices, used them for a while and sold them years later for the same price. They were both very capable, but they were also extremely complicated to program and had poor UIs. Maybe today, with the advent of a good computer-based software editor and a USB port they might have succeeded.

The big manufacturers are building what the masses are looking for: do everything workstations, virtual analog and "yo, you can make a phat beat with this" desktop boxes. So many people idolize analog synth legends that it's like the quest for the holy grail to emulate, emulate, emulate. It's like asking why Fender doesn't ditch the strat and move on. As long as retro music is big in pop (Killers, Bravery, Bloc Party, etc.), virtual analog won't be going anywhere and as long as hip hop is mainstream (which it has been for 10 years), you can expect lots of "me too" products for that set.

I don't see anything other than subtractive synthesis (even if emulated) and sample/wavetable playback becoming mainstream any time soon. If you really want something interesting, use a Kyma!

What alternate form of synthesis do you think or do you wish would succeed in a mainstream product?

-Synth80s

[Syki]

Originally Posted by Synth80s

When you look at the more innovative synths of the last 20 years, most have not sold well. The Kawai K5000 comes to mind as does the Yamaha FS1R. I bought one of each when they were being blown out at crazy prices, used them for a while and sold them years later for the same price. They were both very capable, but they were also extremely complicated to program and had poor UIs. Maybe today, with the advent of a good computer-based software editor and a USB port they might have succeeded.

The big manufacturers are building what the masses are looking for: do everything workstations, virtual analog and "yo, you can make a phat beat with this" desktop boxes. So many people idolize analog synth legends that it's like the quest for the holy grail to emulate, emulate, emulate. It's like asking why Fender doesn't ditch the strat and move on. As long as retro music is big in pop (Killers, Bravery, Bloc Party, etc.), virtual analog won't be going anywhere and as long as hip hop is mainstream (which it has been for 10 years), you can expect lots of "me too" products for that set.

I don't see anything other than subtractive synthesis (even if emulated) and sample/wavetable playback becoming mainstream any time soon. If you really want something interesting, use a Kyma!

What alternate form of synthesis do you think or do you wish would succeed in a mainstream product?

-Synth80s

Yep......http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin...oducts/WebHome

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Synth80s

When you look at the more innovative synths of the last 20 years, most have not sold well. The Kawai K5000 comes to mind as does the Yamaha FS1R. I bought one of each when they were being blown out at crazy prices, used them for a while and sold them years later for the same price. They were both very capable, but they were also extremely complicated to program and had poor UIs. Maybe today, with the advent of a good computer-based software editor and a USB port they might have succeeded.

The big manufacturers are building what the masses are looking for: do everything workstations, virtual analog and "yo, you can make a phat beat with this" desktop boxes. So many people idolize analog synth legends that it's like the quest for the holy grail to emulate, emulate, emulate. It's like asking why Fender doesn't ditch the strat and move on. As long as retro music is big in pop (Killers, Bravery, Bloc Party, etc.), virtual analog won't be going anywhere and as long as hip hop is mainstream (which it has been for 10 years), you can expect lots of "me too" products for that set.

I don't see anything other than subtractive synthesis (even if emulated) and sample/wavetable playback becoming mainstream any time soon. If you really want something interesting, use a Kyma!

What alternate form of synthesis do you think or do you wish would succeed in a mainstream product?

-Synth80s

"The big manufacturers are building what the masses are looking for..."

Umm, sorry, but I've worked for some of the "big companies" and you'd be suprised why things REALLY get made and if you really think everything is done just because it's what the masses want then turn on the radio and tell me THAT is really what the masses want.

You're wrong. Sorry. Just wrong. You're more then welcome to subscribe to whatever theory you like, but acting like sheep and saying, "well, if that's what the masses want then gee, great, I'll accept it and not speak up!"

And if you think the success or failure of a company is only based on the product, again, go back to business school. There's more to business than that, much more. Kyma and the Capabyra, yes VERY innovative. Huge? Nope... Poly-Evolver, great synth! Huge? Nope.

I guess we should just accept your idea and whatever the BIG copanies put out is what the masses really want...I'll go order my $8,000+ Triton/Kyma PC now.

-a

[Syki]

No disrespect to ANYONE!! I've read through this entire thread. And this is getting REDUNDANT!!

I see your point of being angry Dirty Halo, but IMO all the big 3 screw you at one time or another. I do feel your pain with the Oasys card. Was it Dans fault?

I have not heard the Oasys yet but i'm willing to give it a listen.

When you invest into companies like Korg, Yamaha, and Roland , now a days
Mac, Dell, Chevy,Ford etc.. the minute you take it from the store it depreciates (which I recoup some on my tax returns)

Can you make it pay for itself as discussed earlier..or.( screw that ) I'm buying it because I like it and maybe I can't play one lick so frickin what ...my prerogative!!

I think it's cool having Dan hear...JMO... but this is getting tooo personal.

What was the original topic........oh yea....buy the damn thing ,check it out in a day or two...if it's for you keep it , if not return it.