HD Radio sounds like junk

[Kiwi]

[wild speculation]Possibly this is a fault of the radio station processing? Maybe they are sending exactly the same signal to both FM and HD transmitters. The signal is probably hyped to hell and back to compensate for the inevitable losses from the analog FM medium. Maybe they need to create two very different feeds. Sort of like the early days of CDs, where the record companies used the same masters that were created for vinyl. Or maybe the fault is at your end - what converters are you using? I expect the station is cramming all the detail into the top 6dB, so if your converters are less than stellar the cheap analog section is probably crapping out.[/wild speculation]

Who knows. I expect it will turn out to be the operator, not a fault with the medium. Maybe it sounds like mp3s because they are playing mp3s ...

[oldeanalogueguy]

95% of people cant hear any freq higher than fm delivers
the other 5% are erasing the highs off their eardrums by playign mp3 too loud in their earbuds all day long

[Haskell Brooks]

Originally Posted by scud133

Here's my PSA for the day: HD radio sounds awful. Regular FM sounds more pleasing.

HD has a more extended top end, but the problem is that it's distorted and crunchy like an old low bitrate MP3.

When you switch back and forth between the same station on FM->HD, you can tell it gets more "open" and "clear" on the HD version, but the god awful top end is not worth it. It's painful to listen to, like a wall of white noise floating on top of the track.

In comparison, FM's lesser frequency range is actually an advantage because it sounds warmer, more pleasing, more soothing, whatever. It doesn't have that washy, grating top end.

/rant

I find that it gets crunchier on the "bonus channels," I can live with the difference on the primary channels, especially given the amazing ability my Sony tuner has to pull in weak (i.e. college) stations to which I would otherwise not be able to listen. I agree with your assessment, fortunately the weaker stations I like aren't hd.

There is a hack on the net to be able to switch off hd in the unit I own, the xdr-f1hd (crazy good unit for $100), but I really don't need to bother.

[scud133]

Originally Posted by oldeanalogueguy

95% of people cant hear any freq higher than fm delivers
the other 5% are erasing the highs off their eardrums by playign mp3 too loud in their earbuds all day long

so where does that leave people like us??? we don't exist?!? GAAAHHH!!

[Greg Curtis]

You have good ears, since HD Radio uses proprietary lossy compression. So, it will have less resolution than terrestrial radio. I also notice MP3-like lossy symptoms like the high end is crunchy; cymbals sound terrible, reverb has artifacts, etc..

-The "HD" in HD Radio" was originally called "Hybrid Digital" by the firm that owns the rights, iBiquity.

-The FCC gave iBiquity exclusive rights to this digital broadcast domain. Stations have to pay large amounts (6-figures?) for the unique equipment to air it, as well as yearly fees.

-Investors in iBiquity were also part of the FCC commission that gave it exclusive rights.

GC

[joeq]

Originally Posted by scud133

Here's my PSA for the day: HD radio sounds awful. Regular FM sounds more pleasing.

HD has a more extended top end, but the problem is that it's distorted and crunchy like an old low bitrate MP3.

haven't heard it yet, but that sounds like the sound of greed

maybe they are trying to squeeze too many channels in, it sure would not be the first time

[joeq]

Originally Posted by scud133

so where does that leave people like us???

For as long as I can remember, I am in permanent Boycott mode

they don't get me if it sounds bad

[scud133]

It's a shame because I've come across several alternate-HD stations that I really like, but they just sound terrible and it drives me crazy listening to them.

I like the music but I don't like the sizzly top end that sounds like a can of bees in the car... so I usually just don't listen. bummer...

[jaddie]

Originally Posted by scud133

Here's my PSA for the day: HD radio sounds awful. Regular FM sounds more pleasing.

HD has a more extended top end, but the problem is that it's distorted and crunchy like an old low bitrate MP3.

When you switch back and forth between the same station on FM->HD, you can tell it gets more "open" and "clear" on the HD version, but the god awful top end is not worth it. It's painful to listen to, like a wall of white noise floating on top of the track.

In comparison, FM's lesser frequency range is actually an advantage because it sounds warmer, more pleasing, more soothing, whatever. It doesn't have that washy, grating top end.

/rant

HD Radio should sound worse! It's even marketed as "near-CD quality". Near? We've be passed CD quality for quite some time. It's heavily bit-rate reduced with a lossy compressor.

FM is theoretically flat to 15KHz minimum, 17KHz maximum. Either way, it's actually quite good. Good tuners had an unweighted S/N of 70+ dB in stereo, the best ever nudging 82dB. No, it's not a CD, but if you apply weighting to the noise measurement, it's darn good. In fact, because of the limited dynamic range of the listening environment, and more than a bit of self-aggrandizing fanaticism, stations typically over process their audio for both FM and HD.

HD Radio is a bill of goods sold to broadcasters, then to consumers by a hand-full of zealots. It's not better than well received FM, it's compression system is audible, the more HD channels a station uses, the worse they all sound, and there are so few HD radios in the wild that it seems ridiculous for a station to spend a quarter of a mil to add HD. They can't make a dime more money off of it either.

Guess what you get out of your radio when the HD radio stream is corrupted by signal reflections to the point it can't be received? Oh, it falls back to good ol' FM.

But wait, there's more! Did you know that the addition of a HD signal to an FM station degrades the FM? Yup. Information theory at work. Add more information in a band-limited channel, and the recovered analog signal gets noisy.

HD Radio (we should the the HD removed, it's simply not true) should never have been done on the same channel as the analog station. And, for it to really succeed it should have offered buyers something they would preceive as an unmistakable improvement (it doesn't). More crappy channels isn't the answer. Outside the FM band it could have been a cellular type system, it could have provided broadcast 5.1 audio, it could have had receiver-based processing, all sorts of great things. Thank the NAB and the FCC for locking it into the existing bands.

HD Radio is hobbled, expensive, and pointless. Radio, in general, is nearly into a tail spin.

Whew. I feel better now. Thanks.

[scud133]

well I didn't know all that ^ ^ ^ ^ but I guess that explains why I don't like listening to it

[cdog]

Originally Posted by jaddie

Radio, in general, is nearly into a tail spin.

The only thing keeping it in the ballgame at all is cars. All cars come standard with AM/FM radio and now a lot of them have HD Radio too.

As long as cars are around, people will listen to the radio...

The long of the short of this whole tale is: Hifi is dead. The MP3 killed it and the Loudness Wars raped its corpse...

[jaddie]

Hmm. I have a car, drive quite a lot. I don't listen to radio, I have my iPod (w/ high rate aac or lossless files) my smart phone with podcasts, audio books, and Pandora. My first career was in radio for nearly 35 years, but my only radio use today is the AM all news station. No need for HD Radio.

[B3Nut]

I've only heard an HD radio tuner once...the artifacts in the treble were impossible to ignore. It sounded like a lot of the stations on XM/Sirius...nasty. It's a classic case of the butt-nekkid emperor parading around like he's the bees knees.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan