If pitch correction devices DIDN'T exist?

[chessparov]

If there was no Autotune, etc., how would the record industry be different?

How much typically would the overall level of singing/musicianship improve, for example, with no "safety net"/crutch?

Chris

[pan]

...would not be satisfied as fast as they are nowadays, it's not that much about ability, but about studio time...is it?


...no!

[doorknocker]

Originally posted by mdbeh
What bugs me more these days is hearing people who can sing pitch corrected to death.

Exactly! Is the best drummer the one that plays dead- on-the-beat?
Great artists all have their own sense of pitch, things like being just a tad flat on a major third etc... part of the reason you recognize great players or singers after one or two notes, just think of Miles, B.B King, Frank Sinatra...
Auto tune is just a tool and useful when used right (stike i.e Emergency) but it's totally offending on a great singer and the resulting 'perfection' dfegad makes for dull and safe music.....

Andi

[studjo]

If pitch correction devices DIDN'T exist?

the record I produce at the moment would take forever

but I have to agree there are too many singers who can sing burried in auto-tune-mania.
I can't listen to top 40 radio at the moment - but that doesn't has to be a bad thing

Jo

[Jules]

Good question, er............ where's my Valium?

Vocal production with a semi-lame singer used to be THE MOST mindbending grind.

Before auto tune folks were doing it with Eventide HD3000's and other tricks..

[Kenny Gioia]

It's extremely interesting how the invention of Autotune and the Total Collapse of the Recording Industry happened at the same time.

(Actually Autotune came first, but you have to give it some time to crumble the labels)

Things that make you go Hmmm.

[Midlandmorgan]

If it didn't exist, maybe consumers would be forced to listen to people with actual talent.

It would change everything.

BTW-how many Eventides have you seen in live racks lately, all under the same MIDI control running lights, keyboard patch changes, etc? (sigh...)

[studjo]

but we had this talk allready. It's not the tools it's the user who abuse the tools.
Autotune saved a wonderful vocal performance last weekend. I'm sure the singer couldn't do another take with the same mood (we tried ).
I love it but don't abuse it. It's the same way with soundreplacer.

Used sparingly they are what they are: tools to save an artistic statement.

Jo

[chessparov]

Thanks for all the interesting responses so far.

IMHO, much of this has to do with the musician's work ethic

Could you imagine someone like Charlotte Church, or any other
top opera/classical musician asking for some 'tune on their stuff?

As it has been said before, "a professional is someone who can do
it TWICE".

Chris

[Brad Blackwood]

People would just go back to using H3000's w/ DX7s and comp'd vox...

Tuning vocals has been around for a long time.

[Stick]

Originally posted by chessparov
Thanks for all the interesting responses so far.

IMHO, much of this has to do with the musician's work ethic

Could you imagine someone like Charlotte Church, or any other
top opera/classical musician asking for some 'tune on their stuff?

As it has been said before, "a professional is someone who can do
it TWICE".

Chris

Actually, I had an amazing opera singer in my studio not long ago. We were doing a quickie demo for a friend, so when I whipped out the PitchDoctor and fixed a note here and there, she freaked out. "I can't believe you can do that! That's so cool... hey can we fix this note too?"

But yeah, I have no doubt she could've sung it as well or better on the next take.

[DigitMus]

Yeah, I heard someone (AE or producer) talking about a classical album on a public radio program. He mentioned (in the course of praising PT and computers in general) that there were over 3000 edits on that album.
It seems that the soundbyte-length attention span syndrome has infected everyone...

[amanitas]

"I don't mean to sound snotty, but I wouldn't consider Charlotte Church a "top classical/opera singer". "Highly successful novelty act" perhaps.

The only one worse is Andrea Bocelli. He could use some autotune. Or perhaps a mute button."

---exactly!

[chessparov]

It didn't with Toscanini around!

My last vocal instructor, who is a (tremendous) dramatic baritone,
sang with "Mr. T" conducting, along with the NBC Symphony Orchestra
back in the 50's. Toscanini wouldn't accept less than anyone's best,
and would certainly let you KNOW that.

I'm sure, mdbeh, that your ears are more educated than mine.
Sort of easy going with the "operatic standards" of those
like Church, Bocelli, et al, personally.
We could pretend I said "Ruffo" or "Caruso" instead.

Anyway...

How different would the music industry be if there was no
"cheating" ala Eventide's, varying tape speeds, etc., just
sounds au natural?

Chris

[BevvyB]

If Autotune hadn't have been invented

Then Antares wouldn't have had enough success to create it's other stuff

If you could have a world without autotune, would losing Antare's other products be worth it? (It's not rhetorical, it's just a straight question)

[e-cue]

Wasn't he the same dude that invented those machines that clean the alaskian oil lines to the con. us? I have a feeling he's doing okay, if so.

[stealthbalance]

i can't even tell you how many mix sessions i've done where the producer just randomly has an autotune plug-in on the lead vocal in auto mode - without even carefully setting it up ! never done in graphical....just thrown on.

[Ted Nightshade]

I've been shocked by how quickly the classical folk have taken to all the corner cutting. Who will hold out for au natural- the bluegrass nuts?

[amanitas]

jazz musicians

[Jay Doucet]

Before auto tune folks were doing it with Eventide HD3000's and other tricks..

Yep Jules, I remeber the days of tuning with the eventide. It was mostly rare occasions when a vocalist couldnt get one note. Certainly not an entire song. Today, things are rediculous when it comes to autotune. Im a protools hd guy too, but come on.. Cant people just sing in tune anymore? Or, are they too lazy or do they just suck? e

I recently had a group record at my room and when they called to book me, the first thing they asked, was did I have Autotune? Not my rates or what days were avail? Just, did I have Autotune. Lucky for me, I do... Or am I really lucky.. Cause I wanted to die during that session. Every Vocal sounded like Cher on steroids. I wanted to Pull out the last bit of hair that I have left on my head.
<End of Venting Session>


Jay

[alphajerk]

autowhat? never used it.

[Jay Doucet]

Auto-When?

ALWAYS.. Come on guys.. tell your artist to learn
how to sing. Autotune is a great tool. But definitely overused these days..


Jay

[Robotnik]

Originally posted by chessparov
If there was no Autotune, etc., how would the record industry be different?

How much typically would the overall level of singing/musicianship improve, for example, with no "safety net"/crutch?

Chris

It just means that I'd have to do more punch-ins and the singer would get really pissed-off or cry a lot sooner.

[chessparov]

Motown had a "house band"-how about a "house" vocal coach?

If all the engineers would double as vocal coachs, think of all the
extra $$ (and headaches ).

Chris

[DigitMus]

Originally posted by chessparov
Motown had a "house band"-how about a "house" vocal coach?

If all the engineers would double as vocal coachs, think of all the
extra $$ (and headaches ).

Chris

I've already pretty much been doing that on just about every vocal session I've done in the last 10 years...

[Richie Monroe]

Without autotune, The Back Street Boys would be waiting on tables, and Britney Spears would be standing on West 42nd street asking "Wanna date?"-Richie

[thenoodle]

Pitch correction has always existed. We used to call it vari-speed. And we used to call it "punch-in". And we used to call it comp tracks.

And great singers used our primitive pitch correction tools constantly. Barbra Streisand (who can sing a little) would often punch in individual lines..words...breaths..etc where she didn't feel the thing was spot on.....we called that pitch correction in 1962..1965..1967...1969..1970 etc etc.

Barry Gibb...who can also sing a little, would "pitch-correct" words, lines, breaths...and then overdub those corrections 3 or four times on separate tracks...in the process, even redoing the overdubs...line by line..word by word...breath by breath.

So, pitch correction has always been here. Same topic, different decade.

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by Richie Monroe

Without autotune, The Back Street Boys would be waiting on tables, and Britney Spears would be standing on West 42nd street asking "Wanna date?"-Richie

The backstreet boys (well all but one) can really sing. I think a better example would be Hilary Duff, who even with auto-tune is still out of tune and time.

[David R.]

I only use it as a last resort. I use mainly a Digital Performer, not the latest version. I don't even have it for MAS, only for Cubase. For me to use it, I have to export the file and open it in Cubase.

Pain in the neck.

[Rodney Gene]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

Pitch correction has always existed. We used to call it vari-speed. And we used to call it "punch-in". And we used to call it comp tracks.

And great singers used our primitive pitch correction tools constantly. Barbra Streisand (who can sing a little) would often punch in individual lines..words...breaths..etc where she didn't feel the thing was spot on.....we called that pitch correction in 1962..1965..1967...1969..1970 etc etc.

Barry Gibb...who can also sing a little, would "pitch-correct" words, lines, breaths...and then overdub those corrections 3 or four times on separate tracks...in the process, even redoing the overdubs...line by line..word by word...breath by breath.

So, pitch correction has always been here. Same topic, different decade.

Co-Sign.

I always wondered if engineers from the 60's and 70's hated transistor radios and lo-fi stereos...or AM radio Mono?

Lot's of folks spend alot of time complaining about the quality of MP3's...

But considering the majority of the population listen to music in that format...how is that any different than the thin scratchy sound of an AM radio?

Not much actually changes...

We still need good songs...

P&R