Drawmer 1968 or Tube tech SMC 2B on the 2-bus for mixing dance/electronic music?

[Tom Sigmond]

Hello,


Almost a year ago I bought myself a Massive Passive.
I wanted a good eq for my synths and on the 2-bus.
After a year I have to say that I don't use it that much though... .
It shure did shine on the occassions I used it especially
for tracking some (synth)sounds/samples.
But, I often use the eq of my Soundcraft Ghost mixer more to color the synths
instead of the MP.
On the 2-bus I don't like it that much. The highs dissapoint me a bit.
I think they sound a bit harsh and thats not what I like for my mixes.
So all in all, I think I don't do justice to the MP.

That said; in the past I've tried both the DBX Quantum and the TC finalizer
digital multibands on the 2-bus. Neither delivered the thing I liked.
On the moment I try it with the C2 of Alan Smart but that one also
doesn't work for me.

Maybe its becausse I shape all my sounds from the beginning already.
I eq them, compress them to my like and mix instantly when I'm producing.
Maybe thats why a compressor on the 2-bus doesn't work for me I don't know.
Maybe its becausse I didn't find the right combo for me yet.

I was thinking about the SMC 2B or the new Drawmer S3 which is to releasse
coming weeks and give up my Massive Passive for one of those.

I also heared good things about the Drawmer 1968 which is significantly less
expensive so I could ad that to my setup and keep the MP.

My productions are (melodic) trance/techno productions for the clubs.
So there is a lot of sound going on at the same time in my mixes and
the kick and bass are important to stand out and the lows even get more
pronounce/punch with a good (multiband)compressor.
I know the mix itself is the biggest issue but there are some people in
the scene that say you can't get that punchy low end without a good
multiband compressor... .


What do you think?



Thanks.


Tom

[David@MVS]

Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond

Hello,



I also heared good things about the Drawmer 1968 which is significantly less
expensive so I could ad that to my setup and keep the MP.

My productions are (melodic) trance/techno productions for the clubs.
So there is a lot of sound going on at the same time in my mixes and
the kick and bass are important to stand out and the lows even get more
pronounce/punch with a good (multiband)compressor.
I know the mix itself is the biggest issue but there are some people in
the scene that say you can't get that punchy low end without a good
multiband compressor... .
Tom

You seem very particular in your needs. And it appears you need some time to work with the unit before you come to a firm opinion as to the unit's worth.
Given that, I think you need to audition either or both.

No matter what we think may work for your application, you may not agree after hearing the unit.

Given that, I dont believe the 1968 would be a bad choice, but it sounds like you may prefer the FATSO or some Distressors....that is one man's opinion.

You can create your own "Big" switch by patching EQ into most compressor's SideChain. So I wouldnt worry about that (as far as the 1968 is concerned).

Mercenary has a UK presence, so auditioning these units shouldnt be that difficult.

Good luck,
David

[Tom Sigmond]

Hello David,


Thanks for your replie.
I already own 2 distressors (I'm a slut you know... )
I don't think those baby's shine on the 2-bus, more as mono
on some channels or as a stereo couple on the drum-bus.

So this 'BIG'switch on the 1968 gives the same result as sidechaine a compressor
with an high pass eq? Sidechaining with eq doesn't effectively boost the low end.
It just prevents the compressor to react on the low end.
Drawmer state that the BIG swiths effectively boost the bass ouput.


Tom

[el cochino]

Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond

Hello David,


Thanks for your replie.
I already own 2 distressors (I'm a slut you know... )
I don't think those baby's shine on the 2-bus, more as mono
on some channels or as a stereo couple on the drum-bus.

So this 'BIG'switch on the 1968 gives the same result as sidechaine a compressor
with an high pass eq? Sidechaining with eq doesn't effectively boost the low end.
It just prevents the compressor to react on the low end.
Drawmer state that the BIG swiths effectively boost the bass ouput.


Tom

I have the 1968 and like it on the 2-bus, but I don't think the big switch boosts the bass at all. it works like a sidechain so the compressor isn't effected by the low frequencies. The mixes don't have more or less lowend when switching the 1968 in and out. It just glues the mix together and makes it more even.

[TEMAS]

I'd buy a Gyraf G10 Vari-mu. http://www.gyraf.dk/

Never heard one, and I'm no expert on compressors, but thats what I'd buy as my 2-bus compressor. 2,700 Euros.

[syra]

The tubetech's advantage is great individual control of the low end. Its not a very transparent unit though. It can alter your sonic colour of your mix in NO-TIME. You got to be careful with it.

Overall I find it indispensable.

[Phantom Void]

Originally Posted by el cochino

I have the 1968 and like it on the 2-bus, but I don't think the big switch boosts the bass at all. it works like a sidechain so the compressor isn't effected by the low frequencies. The mixes don't have more or less lowend when switching the 1968 in and out. It just glues the mix together and makes it more even.

I agree thumbsup

[kats]

What happens with a side chain, specifically wih the "big switch" in the 1968 is that your filtering the bass frequenices out of the compressor section. IE low frequency spikes won't cause the compressor to compress. It will react only to the high frequencies. Remember though, when the high freqs trigger the compression - the low freqs will STILL compress. It's just a matter of where you want the mix to suck and blow.

The effect is that the bass response sounds bigger because the mix will compress during snare hits, or vocals etc and not (well depending actually) on the bass/kick beats.

[auxpot]

yes el cochino is right...the big switch in the 1968 is just a locut filter (100hz) in the side chain...it doesn´t do anything to the programm material...
but definitily having the compressor set up on material that is bass heavy and then switch in the big switch will result in an allover louder signal in the output (because obviously less compression is happening then), some people got the feeling more bass is coming out of the speaker spontanously..but it´s not...it´s just less compression in that certain case...

the drawmer is great for a lil´glue on the 2buss...just hit it very soft...it can help a lot..you should definitily check it...
can´t talk about the c2, but have an ssl, which is similar...for me this one has the best punch, especially for dance music....but you will always hear it, it´s a certain character stamp i would call it...
i found it much more pleasant to switch in the ssl very early and mix into the machine, with medium attack fast release and just having the meters moving slightly...i think it´s unbeatable, but you gotta like the character it´s an own one...

the drawmer is way less obvious to my ears and very musical...if you already have alot of punch and power in your drums, than the drawmer may suit you better on the mix buss than the ssl (c2)...

[roc]

Originally Posted by syra

The tubetech's advantage is great individual control of the low end. Its not a very transparent unit though. It can alter your sonic colour of your mix in NO-TIME. You got to be careful with it.

Overall I find it indispensable.

What's up guys.

I am also looking at the 2 multi band compressors for electronic dance music and jazz etc....
What are the differences between the drawmer s3 and tube tech smc2bm as far as color ,sound,control etc....? It would most likely be my only compressor for a while, do
you think one holds its value more than the other ? It seems the drawmer has more db and vu metering does that matter ?Can I make the music sound like it's being covered by a pillow if I wanted to ?

Thanks

[roc]

Originally Posted by Tom Sigmond

Hello,


Almost a year ago I bought myself a Massive Passive.
I wanted a good eq for my synths and on the 2-bus.
After a year I have to say that I don't use it that much though... .
It shure did shine on the occassions I used it especially
for tracking some (synth)sounds/samples.
But, I often use the eq of my Soundcraft Ghost mixer more to color the synths
instead of the MP.
On the 2-bus I don't like it that much. The highs dissapoint me a bit.
I think they sound a bit harsh and thats not what I like for my mixes.
So all in all, I think I don't do justice to the MP.

That said; in the past I've tried both the DBX Quantum and the TC finalizer
digital multibands on the 2-bus. Neither delivered the thing I liked.
On the moment I try it with the C2 of Alan Smart but that one also
doesn't work for me.

Maybe its becausse I shape all my sounds from the beginning already.
I eq them, compress them to my like and mix instantly when I'm producing.
Maybe thats why a compressor on the 2-bus doesn't work for me I don't know.
Maybe its becausse I didn't find the right combo for me yet.

I was thinking about the SMC 2B or the new Drawmer S3 which is to releasse
coming weeks and give up my Massive Passive for one of those.

I also heared good things about the Drawmer 1968 which is significantly less
expensive so I could ad that to my setup and keep the MP.

My productions are (melodic) trance/techno productions for the clubs.
So there is a lot of sound going on at the same time in my mixes and
the kick and bass are important to stand out and the lows even get more
pronounce/punch with a good (multiband)compressor.
I know the mix itself is the biggest issue but there are some people in
the scene that say you can't get that punchy low end without a good
multiband compressor... .


What do you think?



Thanks.


Tom

Did you get the Tube tech ?
If so how is it I'm in the same boast

Thanks

[James Lehmann]

Pricecheck:

Drawmer 1968-ME $2150
TubeTech SMC-2B $4590

[Waltz Mastering]

I highly recommend the Tube Tech SMC 2b.

The only other MB's that I know of in that class are the:
maselec mla 3 and the Drawmer S3

I've heard good things about those units as well, even though there have been some documented issues concerning the reliability and maintenance of the S3

I've used the smc 2b in the mastering context for a few years and have recently started using it on drum stems as well. It really lets you get a handle and control on the low frequency content. high's...nice and smooth, nice mid punch.

Color is all relative, it's got plenty of tubes, but I've never been accused of adding to much color to anything. Great converters help.

I work on a wide range of material, maybe 40% tends to be club oriented stuff (Techno, Electro, D&B, Hip Hop, Reggae tone, etc.) and this unit shines.

Can it sound like a pillow? Yes. a big over stuffed down filled one if that's what you want, or it can be quite invisible ; )

The Drawmer 1968 is really not anything like the mb's

[mattyc]

Originally Posted by TEMAS

I'd buy a Gyraf G10 Vari-mu. Gyraf Audio

Never heard one, and I'm no expert on compressors, but thats what I'd buy as my 2-bus compressor. 2,700 Euros.

lol

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by James Lehmann

Pricecheck:

Drawmer 1968-ME $2150
TubeTech SMC-2B $4590

You're quite a ways off.

- c

[Transistor]

Holy moly, at that price I really want one. Do S'water ship to Europe?

r,
j,

[degas]

Originally Posted by Transistor

Holy moly, at that price I really want one. Do S'water ship to Europe?

r,
j,

They are very cheap (Drawmer 1968 that is...) in the Uk as well.
Check with KMR audio or proaudioeurope.

[Zep Dude]

I found the Tubetech, while great, to be rather transparent. the 1968 has a sound that is a little tube warmth but also "modern". It doesn't have a strong stamp like the SSL but it does add some glue, tightness and thickness. I've loved it on everything from rock to pop, R&B etc.

It's amazing that this unit can be had for $1600 or whatever. I bought it after trying it side by side with everything from the $8000 Fairman, $9000 Mastering Atomic Squeezebox, the SSL, API 2500, SMC 2b, Vari Mu and more. All good comps, but the 1968 always stays on my bus.

the 1968 is also great for tracking -everything from vocals, bass, compressing rooms -whatever.

Just don't hit it hard on the bus.

[swafford]

I'd check with the Sonic Circus Ebay store also. They had a string of 1968's on Ebay as customer returns. Most went in the $1100 range. I lucked out on one for $950. They must of sold the same one twice as they delayed shipping mine then sent me a brand new one for the cost of the used one I'd bought. Sonic Circus rocks!

[AB3]

Sonic Circus (among some other dealers) does treat their customers really well.

The 1968 is a steal for the prices it is going for these days. I think if it had just come out as a new product, there would be more talk about it.

Originally Posted by swafford

I'd check with the Sonic Circus Ebay store also. They had a string of 1968's on Ebay as customer returns. Most went in the $1100 range. I lucked out on one for $950. They must of sold the same one twice as they delayed shipping mine then sent me a brand new one for the cost of the used one I'd bought. Sonic Circus rocks!

[roc]

Originally Posted by Waltz Mastering

I highly recommend the Tube Tech SMC 2b.

The only other MB's that I know of in that class are the:
maselec mla 3 and the Drawmer S3

I've heard good things about those units as well, even though there have been some documented issues concerning the reliability and maintenance of the S3

I've used the smc 2b in the mastering context for a few years and have recently started using it on drum stems as well. It really lets you get a handle and control on the low frequency content. high's...nice and smooth, nice mid punch.

Color is all relative, it's got plenty of tubes, but I've never been accused of adding to much color to anything. Great converters help.

I work on a wide range of material, maybe 40% tends to be club oriented stuff (Techno, Electro, D&B, Hip Hop, Reggae tone, etc.) and this unit shines.

Can it sound like a pillow? Yes. a big over stuffed down filled one if that's what you want, or it can be quite invisible ; )

The Drawmer 1968 is really not anything like the mb's

Does the SMC 2b add that finished record air sound, to a dance mix (house-nujazz ambient tech) ? Does it work well with music that has a-lot of transients from deep moving pads, strings, mid Rhodes piano, Low 909 kick and electric and synth bass ready for the clubs ?

Thanks good info from you

[Ben F]

Had the Tube-Tech multiband and got rid of it for the single band CL-2A. Much prefer the sound- very similar to a pair of CL-1Bs, close enough for me anyway. But the tube-techs are subtle and used more for acoustic/rock music.

Very, very rarely use mutiband on decent mixes of electronic music. If i need to the Weiss DS-1 covers most duties. It's generally a bass note popping it's head out, and a decent EQ will most do the job.

The TC Phoenix is the best tube compressor so far I've ever used for electronic music. I don't quite understand why multiband would give you more punch...a single band with high pass filter in the side chain will do the trick.

[Waltz Mastering]

Originally Posted by roc

Does the SMC 2b add that finished record air sound, to a dance mix (house-nujazz ambient tech) ? Does it work well with music that has a-lot of transients from deep moving pads, strings, mid Rhodes piano, Low 909 kick and electric and synth bass ready for the clubs ?

I've had very good luck with it on the genre's you mentioned, I also use CL1B and vari mu

For air I use GML but to be honest, everyone's taste is different. What works for one might not work for another. See if you can demo it. I like using outboard MB it's very versatile.

These unit can differ one to another. I demoed it and wouldn't give it back, but that's just me.; )

[Transistor]

Originally Posted by degas

They are very cheap (Drawmer 1968 that is...) in the Uk as well.
Check with KMR audio or proaudioeurope.

I'll be going to London next week, but since I'm travelling with a newborn, there is no way I'm able to get to KMR's store. (I emailed them about getting it sent to my hotel, but I guess they thought I was a scammer. Can't really say I blame them...) Have all the central London stores folded, or is there somewhere I can pick up a 1968?

Btw, I am totally pro supporting my local dealers (and I do), but the 68 is close to double the price over here. The difference more than pays for my ticket(s) + hotel + several pints of bitter...

r,
j,

[degas]

Originally Posted by Transistor

I'll be going to London next week, but since I'm travelling with a newborn, there is no way I'm able to get to KMR's store. (I emailed them about getting it sent to my hotel, but I guess they thought I was a scammer. Can't really say I blame them...) Have all the central London stores folded, or is there somewhere I can pick up a 1968?

Btw, I am totally pro supporting my local dealers (and I do), but the 68 is close to double the price over here. The difference more than pays for my ticket(s) + hotel + several pints of bitter...

r,
j,

Well, they DO ship to Norway you know (and it's not expensive)...
Just email and ask for a good price included shipping, and they'll take care of you.
Same with Proaudioeurope.

[Guitar Zero]

Originally Posted by swafford

I'd check with the Sonic Circus Ebay store also. They had a string of 1968's on Ebay as customer returns. Most went in the $1100 range. I lucked out on one for $950. They must of sold the same one twice as they delayed shipping mine then sent me a brand new one for the cost of the used one I'd bought. Sonic Circus rocks!

+1 for sonic circus
+1000 for the 1968ME. Got mine for $1100 plus shipping there, and I love it. Sits on the mix and like everyone says, sounds great. Really like the "big" switch too. Keeps your bass from causing the rest of the mix to be compressed. Really sounds, uh... big.

[Transistor]

Originally Posted by degas

Well, they DO ship to Norway you know (and it's not expensive)...
Just email and ask for a good price included shipping, and they'll take care of you.
Same with Proaudioeurope.

Yep, I know, I guess I'll do what I usually do: get a quote and then see what my local gear-pusher can do about his prices... If the whole 'pick-up-box-in-London' thing falls apart and my local can't cut enough, I'll just do regular mail order. It's worked before

Edit: I just realised that Funky Junky's store isn't that far from central London. Perhaps I'll take the little one for a tube-ride...

Thanks,
j,

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by Guitar Zero

+1 for sonic circus
+1000 for the 1968ME. Got mine for $1100 plus shipping there, and I love it. Sits on the mix and like everyone says, sounds great. Really like the "big" switch too. Keeps your bass from causing the rest of the mix to be compressed. Really sounds, uh... big.

I think the 1968 is still one of the best mix buss comp available whatever the price. That said if you like that edgy SSl tone, it will not give you that (As you can guess I don't like it...)
The only thing I wish the '68 had is detended outputs pots (But I know these are expensive) so I use a test tone for calibration instead!

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

You're quite a ways off.

- c

He wasn't on 24 May, 2006 but he is now. The difference is the exchange rate... 3 years ago it was about $2- to the pound, now it's about $1.50 which is a beautiful thing if you're buying things built in pounds with dollars.

Peace.

[Transistor]

Stefan at KMR sorted me out. I'm getting my 68 in a couple of days. I guess it'll go nicely with my Mini Massive.

Great service from KMR btw.

r,
j,