If SSL consoles are the Holy Grail, why aren't SSL channel strips

[AlanTide]

worth anything? If they dont sound good, as many say, why are the consoles so sought after?

[crypticglobe]

I think it's because of 2 things:

1. For the most part, people prefer another pre-amp for tracking. The SSL is not revered for it's pre's, but rather for mixing. This is due to EQ's that suit that task very well, excellent routing, good automation, and #2.

2. A big part of the SSL sound is the bus compressor. The channel strip won't give you that.

Basically what you are getting with the channel strip is a "so/so" pre-amp, a very usuable EQ.... and that's it.

Perhaps the fact that the professional audio community hasn't embraced their channel strip will prompt SSL to finally realize that they have neglected their pre-amp section for FAR too long and they work on improving it.

JMTC of course.

[gainreduction]

A console is more than just its parts or modules. When the modules/parts are working together as a whole system, that's when it starts happening.

And another reason why the Waves SSL bundle ain't worth s**t in my world.

[djui5]

there's a lot more to an SSL than it's channel strip, and unlike Neve, the pre's usually suck for the most part. The pre's in the 9J are usable for some stuff, but pretty flavorless and un-exciting.

[Sqye]

People, such as Tony Belmont here, have also mentioned the VCA coloring from the boards signal path, whcih is apparently NOT present in the boxes..

[MACHINE]

Yea you really need the entire system if you wanna get an SSL sound and also I don't know if you have ever seen a SSL channel strip being pulled out of a console that thing is huge, and I'm not saying they can't minimize the module, but if they did then you'd lose why SSL's are so revered.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by MACHINE

and I'm not saying they can't minimize the module, but if they did then you'd lose why SSL's are so revered.

You know that's just stories that get floated around.


Truth is the best sounding E's,G's, G+'s and J's have been modified somewhat to avoid the degradation that goes on in the channels or the center section.


My E is so heavily modified that it bears very little resemblance(except for the appearance) to a regular E SSL.



Internally i've shortened a lot of the paths, i've ripped out the center section, recapped the power supply to the original specs and to this day i try to avoid as much of the VCA's as possible(mixing on the monitor returns).

And you know what?


After all those changes it still sounds like an SSL.


Just more open and a tad more neutral.

[u b k]

i gotta say, for a huge chunk of the guys doing this, ssl is most definitely NOT the holy grail.

as others have said, the mojo isn't in the strips. i'd say 70% is in the mix comp, 20% is the eq, and 10% is whacking the rails just so.


gregoire
del ubik

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by u b i k

i gotta say, for a huge chunk of the guys doing this, ssl is most definitely NOT the holy grail.

as others have said, the mojo isn't in the strips. i'd say 70% is in the mix comp, 20% is the eq, and 10% is whacking the rails just so.


gregoire
del ubik

Don't forget the automation and the routing.


Especially the routing.


Its one of the things you miss when not mixing on SSL.

[theother]

Originally Posted by AlanTide

worth anything? If they dont sound good, as many say, why are the consoles so sought after?

Who says that SSL channel strips are not popular?

To start with there were no channel strips available until recently.

I always wanted a SSL channel strip compressor with E-EQ but SSL never made one. Only recently did they reveal the E-strip.

There was only the Fx series stereo EQ but that was a G-EQ which I never liked very much. It still was quite popular.

Back to your question....how can something be popular if it doesn't exist?

Of course the desks are more appealing considering the whole package you get....as Thrill said...routing, automation, quad compressor...and call me shallow..I always thought SSL desks looked sexier than the competition.

[AlanTide]

Why dont you see modules pulled from SSL consoles available as racks like you see the Neve stuff? For example, several companies (Averill, Marquette, etc) custom rack Neve pre/eq's etc. Just wondering why SSL modules are not done in the same way.

[theother]

Originally Posted by AlanTide

Why dont you see modules pulled from SSL consoles available as racks like you see the Neve stuff? For example, several companies (Averill, Marquette, etc) custom rack Neve pre/eq's etc. Just wondering why SSL modules are not done in the same way.

It's not worth doing for that kind of money. Most people who started putting Neve's in racks were mixing on SSLs to start with, but needed better preamps or alternative EQ.

SSL channels are not easy to rack. Too big. Neves had the right size with the cassettes.

I never liked SSL preamps.

Since most records got mixed on SSLs anyway why bothering with the modules?

Now that more people work in smaller home studios and/or DAWs it's a different game and SSL strips could have their place.

But as I said, people started putting Neves in racks for the preamps. they were just better than the SSLs you had in the desk.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by theother

Who says that SSL channel strips are not popular?

To start with there were no channel strips available until recently.

I always wanted a SSL channel strip compressor with E-EQ but SSL never made one.

Well actually this is almost true.


A while back Alan Smart built the channel dynamic section in a rackmount for JJPuig.


I remember asking him if he could do for others and his answer was basically...


I guess you had to be not a regular Gearslut...but an uber famous Gearslut.

[Sqye]

Isn't it also true that, since Neves are, in many cases, older - it'd make sense that their individual components and entire consoles began failing/ needing repair at a time when opting for outboard gear in studio recording, and subsequently home recording, was becoming more of a trend? I can imagine folks werre pulling out channel strips and going............hmmmmm. Necessity is the mother......Anyone know who the first guys to rack Neve was? Just curious - sorry for the digression.

Just my $.01


btw - Thrill, I'm sure I've asked you this before (so kill me now), but in this context, what do you think of the SSL channel boxes? (Like I said, kill me now.)

[djui5]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Its one of the things you miss when not mixing on SSL.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Don't forget the automation and the routing.

Especially the routing.

Its one of the things you miss when not mixing on SSL.

can't argue with that. i guess when i think of 'mojo' i tend to think purely in terms of sonics.

but the routing and automation are definitely huge factors of the total experience of working on those desks.

personally, i like arcane and confusing routing systems. like a good crossword puzzle, it keeps my brain muscles flexed.


gregoire
del ubik

[con?one]

'cause you can't look as cool posted up against a channel strip

[dave-G]

Long before ProTools was derided as 'necessary evil', was the SSL console. Their rise to de facto prominence has very little to do with their sound and very much more to do with routing and automation (and the convenience of dynamics per channel). They presented a new level of ergonomics and control for mixing. But... many loathed their sound in a way that you might find very similar to some of what's been said about PT over the years. ...

The difference however, is thatat almost any form of distortion becomes "character" at some point, and once enough hits got mixed through SSLs, their veil of artifacts became something people associated with good music.. And now those artifacts alone are something that many people now think will stamp their music with some air of authenticity, or some aura of a "hit" ...

Not that there's anything wrong with this... but as a personal flavor issue, I'd still much rather hear the warmth and grit of a Trident, or the girth and smoothness of a Neve ... or the "nothing at all" of digital before that 'crunch and honk' that can build up on an SSL. .. and yet, they're still much easier to build complex/contemporary mix structures on...

I know... Sacrilege!!!

-dave

[True North]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Well actually this is almost true.

A while back Alan Smart built the channel dynamic section in a rackmount for JJPuig.

I remember asking him if he could do for others and his answer was basically...

I guess you had to be not a regular Gearslut...but an uber famous Gearslut.

Was Puig ever a contributor on this site or are you just talking in general terms that he is a Gearslut? Just curious !

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by True North

Was Puig ever a contributor on this site or are you just talking in general terms that he is a Gearslut? Just curious !

As far as i know i've never seen him around these parts.


I knew that Alan Smart had built him the box so i asked Alan if he would be willing to make more and he said no.

Its a moot point since SSL has just released the E channel strip.

And yeah JJP is an Uber gear slut.

[djui5]

I think JJP is the king GS....

I read in an article recently that his room is flat to 1hz....

[cebolao]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Especially the routing.


Its one of the things you miss when not mixing on SSL.

interesting...

i do mix on neve vr72 sometimes, is the routing much different than SSL?

[wwittman]

my room is flat to 1 Hz, plus or minus 70dB

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by wwittman

my room is flat to 1 Hz, plus or minus 70dB

Mine too!

[skygod]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

I think it's because of 2 things:

1. For the most part, people prefer another pre-amp for tracking. The SSL is not revered for it's pre's, but rather for mixing. This is due to EQ's that suit that task very well, excellent routing, good automation, and #2.

2. A big part of the SSL sound is the bus compressor. The channel strip won't give you that.

Basically what you are getting with the channel strip is a "so/so" pre-amp, a very usuable EQ.... and that's it.

Perhaps the fact that the professional audio community hasn't embraced their channel strip will prompt SSL to finally realize that they have neglected their pre-amp section for FAR too long and they work on improving it.

JMTC of course.

Perhaps the fact that the professional audio community hasn't embraced their channel strip will prompt SSL to finally realize that they have neglected their pre-amp section for FAR too long and they work on improving it.

Steve and everybody else, I seriously hope that you are NOT holding your breath waiting for this to happen from SSL, and seriously folks, what exactly has SSL done so magnificently to really really top its historic 4000 series console with crappy EQ? Please don't all jump on board with the new totally $100-150K automated mini mixer crappola now either ... including the new automated Neves either etc. For that money? Its utter insanity. Has anybody really topped the Yamaha DM2000 V2 VCM at under $30K fully loaded, and Yamaha just dumped the product line instead of upgrading it to a 24/192 system with even better EQ? WTF Over? They're nutsola and disconnected too! And this new SSL Matrix solution? What is this supposed to do now .... $27K justified to amaeliorate the ars-screwing for not paying over $100K for a Euphonix System 5 MC that does the same thing that a Mackie Universal Control pro already does for under $5K? The entire industry has gone abso fvvkinglutely off the deep end ... Gregg Mackie, your Control Pro seems more and more promising every day with Lynx/Aurora or Apogee Symphony/Rosetta whetever combo at the front end .... Keep up the good work Mackie. I might have just had a Mackie epiphany and became a fan after all these years of uncontrollable mackie nausea and vomitus * ....


* I have been told that this kind of demon apprently only goes out with prayer and fasting ... and some saintly old woman must have been praying for me all these years ....

[drBill]

Originally Posted by u b k

i gotta say, for a huge chunk of the guys doing this, ssl is most definitely NOT the holy grail.

thumbsupthumbsup

Originally Posted by theother

Who says that SSL channel strips are not popular?

To start with there were no channel strips available until recently.

I believe the OP is talking about strips pulled from once working consoles.

Originally Posted by AlanTide

Why dont you see modules pulled from SSL consoles available as racks like you see the Neve stuff? For example, several companies (Averill, Marquette, etc) custom rack Neve pre/eq's etc. Just wondering why SSL modules are not done in the same way.

Read the above posts. They covered it all/.

[shadewind]

As many others said:

The reason you want channel strips most of the time is because of the preamp. The SSL preamps are not really known for being very good. The reason SSL was so popular was because they were great to mix on. You had dynamics on every channel which as least I think is really good for something like drums when using the slow attack or for smashing things up or just controlling peaks with the fast attack. You had a really good expander/gate on every channel. You had HP and LP filters on every channel as well as a 4 band EQ with adjustable Q on the middle bands and switchable bell/shelving filter on the upper and lower bands. You could place the filters, the EQ and dynamics in any order you like in the signal chain. The routing and subgrouping is also really great.

Personally, I think what's great about an SSL console is the flexible routing, the flexible EQ and the dynamics on every channel. But then again, I'm more of an ITB guy anyway.

[Roc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by AlanTide

Why dont you see modules pulled from SSL consoles available as racks like you see the Neve stuff? For example, several companies (Averill, Marquette, etc) custom rack Neve pre/eq's etc. Just wondering why SSL modules are not done in the same way.

Because they sound like shit.
I wouldn't record my grandmother kazoo through an SSL pre.

Sorry, flame on slutz

[T_R_S]

well i don't know how many people posting here actually own one
but I own a X Logic Channel for about 2 years - I will never sell it.
I use it on guitars and bass all the time I don't have the A/D option so i can't talk about it.
I love it ...

[Whitecat]

I use the Alpha Channel (with the VHD pre) daily, I think it's fantastic, and the VHD gives it some serious flexibility.

So while it may be true that the old SSL console pres were rubbish, I think the current stuff is much, much better. Just my opinion, of course.