Mixing and matching AD convertors? Does it sound okay?

[RichT]

Hey,

Just wondered if anyone had recommendations / fore-bodings as to mixing and matching AD convertors.

Currently we're running 3 Fostex VC-8 boxes, they are externally clocked with a Mutec SmartClock and all running off a balanced transformer rather than the wall warts. They sound, well, ok. (If any high-end forum dwellers are reading this - I know, I'm scum!!)
They are 20Bit convertors, I'm recording straight to Nuendo 1.6.1 at 32Bit float 44.1Hz.

Our current client base have never complained about the recording quality but as a gear slut I yearn for more - I know there are much much much better convertors out there (and I know my competitors have them too...grr)

BUT. Our budget is tiny. Saving is one option, another business loan is another but buying second hand is probably most likely.

If I pick up a 2nd hand Apogee Rosetta 48k or the like and use that for vocals / important overdubs - providing I record at the same bit and sample rate - I can gain a better sound for the upfront tracks whilst saving a little more down the line for a couple of 8 channels.

Any holes in this plan?

[Jay Kahrs]

The front end like mics & pres matter more then the converters. way more then converters. Looking at your equipment list I'd invest in some kind of killer preamp. Maybe a pair of Calrec, API, OSA etc. The converter is like the paint on the building, doesn't matter what the color is if the foundation is cracked.

[RichT]

Hi Jay,

So a good pre-amp is the better way to go?

I guess investing in decent solid outboard also makes more financial sense.

It seems that someone is releasing a new converter every other week where as a respected Pre-amp will always be needed in the studio.

Okay, thanks Jay, I'm off to investigate killer pre's now!

[Exmun]

Also just a minor correction for your equipment page. You listed your Roland module as "Roland JV5080". But I think you meant "XV" 5080. The JV series stopped at 2080. FYI, I have the XV 3080. Much success to you shopping for a nice pre.

[RichT]

Originally posted by Exmun
Also just a minor correction for your equipment page. You listed your Roland module as "Roland JV5080". But I think you meant "XV" 5080. The JV series stopped at 2080. FYI, I have the XV 3080. Much success to you shopping for a nice pre.

Well spotted! I'll get the web bod to change that (er...that'll be me then, doh!)

Funnily enough we did used to have a Roland JV keyboard before we traded it in for the XV module. Our MIDI arsenal is a little lacking due to the fact we've been recording nothing but rock bands for the past 18 months. It sees a little action if a band wants some piano or strings.

Thanks again,

Rich

[Renie]

On the AD budget front- the new Kurzweil mini KSP8's -Rumour and Mangler are worth a consideration.

[RichT]

Originally posted by Renie
On the AD budget front- the new Kurzweil mini KSP8's -Rumour and Mangler are worth a consideration.

Couldn't find any info on them. Only thing I did find was KSP8 effects module (looks interesting).

Thanks anyway!

Rich

[Renie]

Try here http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...hlight=mangler

[RichT]

Originally posted by Renie
Try here http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...hlight=mangler

Cool!

Thanks for the info.

Cheers,
Rich

[Robotnik]

I do this all the time. Clock a bunch of 888/24's with a Lucid192 for drums that are first tracked to 2". Everything else goes through a PSX100. Only stuff I send to an 888 are the DI track of guitar (in case I wanna reamp later).

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally posted by Renie
On the AD budget front- the new Kurzweil mini KSP8's -Rumour and Mangler are worth a consideration.

Based on what? Have you heard them yet? I'd think a $600 ADC would sound better then a $600 reverb with an ADC attached to it IMHO. I still think the pres are a better way to go. The quality of my work improved a lot when I got my first real preamp and could bypass the console. In comparison the Mytek did very little, it was much more subtle.

[Jax]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
The quality of my work improved a lot when I got my first real preamp and could bypass the console. In comparison the Mytek did very little, it was much more subtle.

For me, that subtlety became much less subtle when hearing the effect of better converters on a whole mix. I see the analogy more like this: if you can't see the color of the paint very well, or the shape of the house very clearly, you won't know how to fix it up.

However, I agree that improving the front end is like working upon a more solid foundation. I would put mics first, then preamps, then AD - especially because a good mic or preamp should easily remain more useful and never become obsolete.

[Renie]

Originally posted by Jay Kahrs
Based on what? Have you heard them yet? I'd think a $600 ADC would sound better then a $600 reverb with an ADC attached to it IMHO. I still think the pres are a better way to go. The quality of my work improved a lot when I got my first real preamp and could bypass the console. In comparison the Mytek did very little, it was much more subtle.

Jay

Based on some interesting GS Kurzweil threads.
Heard them? No. Have you?

"I'd think a $600 ADC would sound better then a $600 reverb with an ADC attached to it IMHO."

I wouldn't be surprised if the Kurzweil units convertors were better than some dedicated convertors in the same price range.

Pres may be a better way to go.

I'm sure my idea won't be a bad influence on Rich.

[Jay Kahrs]

I dunno, you can find used 2 channel ADC's for bargin prices if you can live with 16-20 bits or only 48khz operation. I see older Mytek, Prism, Apogee, etc. all the time for $400-600. I'm plenty happy with the 20-bit Mytek I bought. My friend bought it from Beartracks and then sold it because it wasn't 24/96 but it's prefect for what I need it for, mainly safety's and burning CD's from mixes on 1/4". I haven't heard the new Kurz boxes either (not shipping or just shipping AFAIK) but I'd imagine that a decent part of the money went into making them FX boxes, not a standalone ADC. Having said that, my main DAC is a TC M2000 in bypass.

Mics and pres make a bigger differance then any converter, even across a whole mix. Sorry, but unless you have really shitty converters it just doesn't make as big of a difference as the front end. YMMV on that. Mine doesn't.

[Renie]

Hey Jay

I'm not saying that convertors are the better option.

Your advice is very good!