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jo9shw
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#1
6th July 2011
Old 6th July 2011
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hammond organ prices?

I have looked in a lot of places to find prices for a hammond organ that is road worthy...i have not been able to find an average cost of a hammond and leslie speaker..does anyone know like minimum what I would pay for this set up? Just seemed like there were so many different kinds and they all looked different. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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It depends a little bit on your location, but here's my $.02. FWIW, I carry a B3/Leslie on the road, all the time. (Oh, and by the way, if you want to carry one all the time, you're going to have to learn how to fix it, all the time.)

Prices for an actual B3, with a leslie, can be all over the map. In general, I feel a Leslie is worth about $1k in average condition. For a B3 with a leslie ready to go, you could pay around $4k, plus or minus. (mostly plus.)

remember, a new Nord Stage 2 88 costs $4200, so $4k for 425 pounds of awesome isn't really too bad anymore.

Of course, there's B3s and Leslies on the internet for $10k, but those guys don't actually want to sell them, they just want to talk about them.

There's also the 'variants' that will be less expensive. C3 is good. A100 through A105 is good. The A-series will weigh a bit more and has a different look, but if you're committing to carrying one it's not a big difference. Plus, an A1xx series has speakers and great reverb for fun studio tricks. For 'that sound', you'll need a leslie and a Kit to hook it up which will cost anywhere from $100-$250.

A nice C3 with leslie you could find for maybe $2-3K around here. A100 series for $1k-$1500, without leslie usually.


I've been very lucky because my road organ is a B2 cabinet with A100 'guts', which makes it a frankenstein organ but technically identical to a B3. Which makes me feel better having it on the road because I'm not destroying a potentially valuable organ with a 'serial number', etc.

hope that helps a little.
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Around here I expect a C3 with Leslie to go for around $3k and a B3 with Leslie for $4k.

To the OP, I have access to a Northern A100 with Leslie ( will have to check the model). Northern was the company in Canada that made organs for Hammond.

It's beat up, but works well and would be super good deal. Probably so good it would be cost effective to crate and ship. PM me if interested.


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As regards a Leslie, if you want to lighten your gear hump without compromising the Leslie sound, consider a Motion Sound Pro-3X or a used Pro-3T which has a 12ax7 tube driver.

Motion Sound

It's an actual rotating horn driver with a simulator output for the low speaker. Highly recommended. There are a few YouTube demos of it in use if you want to check it out. I use a Pro-3T with a Hammond M3.
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Hammonds seem more affordable now than ever. I'm surprised. It could be the greatest instrument ever. I recently picked up a vintage C3/Leslie 147 which I talk about here: Hammond Organs: living and breathing

-R
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All you folks with your B3s and C3s. If you're looking for the real deal, go for an A-100. EXACTLY THE SAME as a B3 or C3, just a different body. Actually, it comes with reverb and internal speakers, making it even better! If you take the sound to the Leslie out of the AO-28 pre-amp (upside down on the A-100) instead of the AO-39 power amp, it'll sound just like a B3. Typically people ask for $1500 for A-100s but you can often find em for much cheaper. I got mine for $700, though I did have to pull everything out to fix and clean some stuff.


Do you need a full 61 key manual? If not, you could go with an M3 or M100 series (the "Baby B3" Spinets!). Same innards as the B3s, just less notes. They have 44 note manuals. The main difference is foldback and manual tapering on the top end. This guy talks a bit about it, he modded the hell out of his M3 - YouTube - ‪Hammond M3 Organ After Manual Tapering and Foldback Mod‬‏ - You can very often find M3s for free if you look hard enough, otherwise you shouldn't pay more than $200 if you're in a city.

Foldback and tapering can be added, although you'll need 48 (or 55) extra contacts for foldback and resistors for tapering. M3s also need several (3, I believe) full length busbars for foldback to work. It'll set you back maybe another $50-$100. Tearing open the organ sounds a bit daunting, but if you know how to solder, it's fairly easy. Just very... very very very... very time consuming. You probably don't want to pay someone else to do it, and they might even tell you they won't do it (for several reasons including time).

I'll say, I very much enjoy my M-111, but playing the A-100 is "that sound". The M series is close, but somethings missing. With a Leslie, that something might not be very much. Check this guy's stock M-111 through a 147 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lPw0wKu7_M&t=83



As for Leslies, the cheapest you'll probably find would be something like a 25 or 125 (125 is dual speed). These models only have the lower baffle. They don't have the horn, which is a big part of the Leslie sound, but they still sound pretty good. You can hear my M111 with my 25 here. We used a remote control lightswitch to get the variable speed off the one speed leslie.

If you want a dual-speed, top horn Leslie, the main one people go for is the 122, closely followed by the 147. Either of those will probably set you back around $1000. Sometimes you can find something like a 21, 45, or 47 which aren't dual-speed but have a horn. You can sometimes upgrade them to dual-speed for cheaper than a dual-speed Leslie would cost. There are also some nice sounding solid-state Leslies.

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hammond organ prices?

Is this for recording/home use? Or gigging? Do you need to kick bass on it? Thinking about those may help the decision between a spinet and a full size monster. Other differences are the vibrato variations (which make a difference if you're doing stopped Leslie jazz type stuff) and the presets. The foldback is less of an issue IMHO. Remember, Whiter Shade of Pale was done on a spinet.

Some models don't have percussion and there are a million subtle variations for cork sniffers to worry about. There's a ton of info on the net about the models. Do some research and play a few to see what matters to you.
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I'm the backline tech from the Jon Lord Blues Project band. We carry a Hammond B3 + 122 Leslie, both in perfect condition. They are insured for 15k euro, but I don't now for how much they actually may sell.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exgato View Post
As regards a Leslie, if you want to lighten your gear hump without compromising the Leslie sound, consider a Motion Sound Pro-3X or a used Pro-3T which has a 12ax7 tube driver.

Motion Sound

It's an actual rotating horn driver with a simulator output for the low speaker. Highly recommended. There are a few YouTube demos of it in use if you want to check it out. I use a Pro-3T with a Hammond M3.
I like the MotionSound too .. it comes pre-mic'd. If you don't need two
registers, the Hammond XK3 is quite road-worthy (given an Anvil case).

jeff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torea View Post
A
As for Leslies, the cheapest you'll probably find would be something like a 25 or 125 (125 is dual speed). These models only have the lower baffle. They don't have the horn, which is a big part of the Leslie sound, but they still sound pretty good.
Actually, the 125 can be pretty cool. You hear some lower-baffle-only work on some of the old Steppenwolf and Procol Harum records.

-R
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Another good find is a Leslie 251. It is basically a 147 with an additional reverb channel (originally designed to be mated to the A-100). They sometimes can be found for less than a 147. I love mine. I use it (via a Speakeasy input/controller pedal) with my Hammond M2 and with guitar (using an old Peavey TG Raxx Tube Preamp). The TG Raxx just kills as a guitar front end for a Leslie as it has an additional extra hot signal level output.

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I've been oggling the HAMMOND XK-3c & a pair of Tolerance Sound P26



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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradinnm View Post
Another good find is a Leslie 251. It is basically a 147 with an additional reverb channel (originally designed to be mated to the A-100). They sometimes can be found for less than a 147. I love mine. I use it (via a Speakeasy input/controller pedal) with my Hammond M2 and with guitar (using an old Peavey TG Raxx Tube Preamp). The TG Raxx just kills as a guitar front end for a Leslie as it has an additional extra hot signal level output.

bradinnm
btw, did you know on a B3 (and I suspect a B2) if you open the back you'll see an RCA jack where you can plug in a line level signal and it'll go through the organ electronics and out to the Leslie? There was a point in time when I had that wired up to my console with an aux send with the Leslie mics coming up as an effects return. Awesome!

-R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradinnm View Post
Another good find is a Leslie 251. It is basically a 147 with an additional reverb channel (originally designed to be mated to the A-100). They sometimes can be found for less than a 147. I love mine. I use it (via a Speakeasy input/controller pedal) with my Hammond M2 and with guitar (using an old Peavey TG Raxx Tube Preamp). The TG Raxx just kills as a guitar front end for a Leslie as it has an additional extra hot signal level output.

bradinnm

Very very tough to find though. Lots of A-100 users go for the later solid state rotosonic Leslies because they have two channels. Great that you have a 251


Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Actually, the 125 can be pretty cool. You hear some lower-baffle-only work on some of the old Steppenwolf and Procol Harum records.

-R
Yeah I like our 25, I kinda want to keep it, but I know we could sell it and make better use of the money. We've sanded the cracks and divets out of ours and it looks like glass now =D
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I've owned three different Hammond Organs and several Leslies over the years. I am now very happy with Roland VK-8M Module. It has a greater range of sounds and weighs way less!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torea View Post
All you folks with your B3s and C3s. If you're looking for the real deal, go for an A-100. EXACTLY THE SAME as a B3 or C3, just a different body. Actually, it comes with reverb and internal speakers, making it even better! If you take the sound to the Leslie out of the AO-28 pre-amp (upside down on the A-100) instead of the AO-39 power amp, it'll sound just like a B3. Typically people ask for $1500 for A-100s but you can often find em for much cheaper. I got mine for $700, though I did have to pull everything out to fix and clean some stuff.


Do you need a full 61 key manual? If not, you could go with an M3 or M100 series (the "Baby B3" Spinets!). Same innards as the B3s, just less notes. They have 44 note manuals. The main difference is foldback and manual tapering on the top end. This guy talks a bit about it, he modded the hell out of his M3 - YouTube - ‪Hammond M3 Organ After Manual Tapering and Foldback Mod‬‏ - You can very often find M3s for free if you look hard enough, otherwise you shouldn't pay more than $200 if you're in a city.

Foldback and tapering can be added, although you'll need 48 (or 55) extra contacts for foldback and resistors for tapering. M3s also need several (3, I believe) full length busbars for foldback to work. It'll set you back maybe another $50-$100. Tearing open the organ sounds a bit daunting, but if you know how to solder, it's fairly easy. Just very... very very very... very time consuming. You probably don't want to pay someone else to do it, and they might even tell you they won't do it (for several reasons including time).

I'll say, I very much enjoy my M-111, but playing the A-100 is "that sound". The M series is close, but somethings missing. With a Leslie, that something might not be very much. Check this guy's stock M-111 through a 147 - YouTube - ‪Hammond M100 & Leslie 147 Movie 1‬‏



As for Leslies, the cheapest you'll probably find would be something like a 25 or 125 (125 is dual speed). These models only have the lower baffle. They don't have the horn, which is a big part of the Leslie sound, but they still sound pretty good. You can hear my M111 with my 25 here. We used a remote control lightswitch to get the variable speed off the one speed leslie.

If you want a dual-speed, top horn Leslie, the main one people go for is the 122, closely followed by the 147. Either of those will probably set you back around $1000. Sometimes you can find something like a 21, 45, or 47 which aren't dual-speed but have a horn. You can sometimes upgrade them to dual-speed for cheaper than a dual-speed Leslie would cost. There are also some nice sounding solid-state Leslies.

I hear what you are saying... I'd chop an A100 myself for a road dog Hammond... and mod a Leslie 45 to take with it.

As for the M3... don't touch it, leave it as is... it's a different beast and WILL make you play differently than a B3. I have a 1955 Ebony colored M3 with the i26 kit and my friend who owns seven B3's (Bill Bears custom, chops and stock), loves my little M3 for what it does and how it makes him play differently. Indeed Booker T pretty much only played an M3 for the way it made him play.

Anyway good information you posted but I wouldn't chop and mod my M3 for anything. Use it with a Leslie (and a great player) and 9 out of 10 keyboard players could not tell if it's a B3 or not.

Long live the tone wheel organs!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
btw, did you know on a B3 (and I suspect a B2) if you open the back you'll see an RCA jack where you can plug in a line level signal and it'll go through the organ electronics and out to the Leslie? There was a point in time when I had that wired up to my console with an aux send with the Leslie mics coming up as an effects return. Awesome!

-R
All the -2 and -3 series consoles (including the A-100 series) have this jack (Radio-Phono) on the swell capacitor doghouse, as do M-series spinets. The BV/CV have an aux input as well, it's a screw terminal under a little cover on the rear of the preamp.

As for prices, location location location. Down south Hammonds tend to list for a fair chunk of change. Up here in the upper Midwest you can often score a nice A-100 for $500 or so if you watch Craigslist like a hawk. Granted, they've been parked in living rooms and usually have the gremlins associated with 50 year old electronics but they're easy to work on and get going. Once you do you'll find out why we Hammond addicts often say that the best B-3's are A-100's.

Haunt CL, and be ready to pounce. Oh, and invest in Roll-Or-Kari organ dollies. They really are all that and a bag of chips.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan
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hammond organ prices?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone
I have a 1955 Ebony colored M3 with the i26 kit
what is an i26 kit? I have a cherry finish '55 M3 and the only thing I miss is the vibrato settings on the big organs. I'm fine with the sound of the upper register. Even through a Pro3 which is a bit brighter than a real Leslie. Every so often it would be nice to hear a counterpoint bass line and I miss the extra octave and a half, but then I just do a Neal Evans and play that part on a synth. My Motif can do the low notes well enough. But nothing sounds or makes you play the same as a real tonewheel machine.

To the OP, I reread that this is for a road instrument. And as much as I agree with Silvertone about defiling old Hammonds, I'd consider a spinet if you don't need to kick bass on it, and maybe even a chopped spinet for the packing convenience. I've seen people wrestle B3s on dollys into lowboy trailers single handed, but it doesn't look like fun. I can pop my M3 onto a piano dolly and get it around by myself pretty easily. Back in the '70s I had to move an M100 every night. Two people for it, same as two people for the Rhodes. A full size Hammond is pretty much a four man thing unless someone's a showoff.
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Anyway good information you posted but I wouldn't chop and mod my M3 for anything. Use it with a Leslie (and a great player) and 9 out of 10 keyboard players could not tell if it's a B3 or not.

Long live the tone wheel organs!

That's the other side of the argument, and I'd say it's probably split pretty evenly. A lot of people don't hear a big difference with foldback (tapering is a different story).

I'm definitely not recommending chopping it! I hated having to tear apart my M2 for foldback parts, but the amp would have cost too much to fix. But I know I'll be happy once my M-111 has foldback and manual tapering, since then it will truly be the smaller version of my A-100 Plus I added an effects loop to the lower manual so I can drop it an octave and play left hand bass. Very easy to put in/take out should I want the organ back to stock.
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Originally Posted by B3Nut View Post
Haunt CL, and be ready to pounce. Oh, and invest in Roll-Or-Kari organ dollies. They really are all that and a bag of chips.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan

I used searchtempest.com when I was looking. You can set a range of several hundred miles and search all the Craigslists in that area. Mine is set up for all of California =D If you find a Hammond where they say "No stairs" you better hustle


Also, I completely agree with the R-o-K concept, but disagree with the amount they cost! We built our own for less than 50 I moved my A-100 into my home on a real R-o-K but it wasn't any easier than moving it with ours. (the picture is with our M-111, we've expanded the dolly to fit the A-100)

Seriously, if you're gigging with a Hammond, you'll probably want: 1) Roll or Karis; 2) 3 friends who are willing to move heavy objects for food/beer and are careful/sober enough not to rip up the sides; 3) a doctor who's good with fixing back problems
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Thanks everyone for the info. I really don't know what I'm looking for...I am a guitar player and mess around on keys a bit.. But have definitely fallen in love with the sound of someone rocking the organ in a band. I didn't know anything about the A series or even the c3. They seem like better options for just starting out maybe? What about the Hammond xk-3c? I feel like for the price I would rather just buy the original organ...does anyone know if the xk-3c is as versatile or does it actually reproduce the right sound? I mean I know its a little different but playing guitar through a solid state amp is a lot different than a tube amp...maybe most people wouldn't notice the difference but the musician can feel the difference...does that happen with original organs and newer digital organs?
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hammond organ prices?

For playing around and recording an authentic Hammond sound, get a tonewheel spinet and some sort of Leslie It has the essential sound and feel to show you what it's all about. A tenth the cost of a full sized console organ.

I'm curious about that effects loop/octave shift. How is that done? Any links? I haven't run across this before.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
I'm curious about that effects loop/octave shift. How is that done? Any links? I haven't run across this before.

I found it over on the organ forum. Basically you take one of the wires coming out of the matching transformer (the can in the back). The green is for the upper, the yellow is for the lower. You just unsolder the wire (yellow for me), solder it to a 1/4" jack, link it to another jack (I think that was for grounding?), and send it back. All you have to do if you don't want the pedal is put a 1/4" cable connecting the two jacks.

You need some seriously shielded wire for this, as the matching transformer is very high impedance. It causes a huge volume difference, but some people use a pot to make up for it. Also, on my M-111, I need to have one manual with vibrato on and one with it off. Don't know why, but ok.

Actually, a Vox Clyde McCoy sounds like a nice slow Leslie
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hammond organ prices?

Cool. Thanks. Do you just use an octave stomp box? Or a fancier pitch shifter?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
For playing around and recording an authentic Hammond sound, get a tonewheel spinet and some sort of Leslie It has the essential sound and feel to show you what it's all about. A tenth the cost of a full sized console organ.

I'm curious about that effects loop/octave shift. How is that done? Any links? I haven't run across this before.
I say get the full console--B3, C3, A-100 or similar. It's not that expensive and will never depreciate in value. Have it all--the lows, the highs, the vibrato, the 4 racks of drawbars plus bass pedals,the smell of oil and heated tubes, the grind of the motors......

That ebony M3 sure looks sweet, however.

-R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertone View Post
I hear what you are saying... I'd chop an A100 myself for a road dog Hammond... and mod a Leslie 45 to take with it.

As for the M3... don't touch it, leave it as is... it's a different beast and WILL make you play differently than a B3. I have a 1955 Ebony colored M3 with the i26 kit and my friend who owns seven B3's (Bill Bears custom, chops and stock), loves my little M3 for what it does and how it makes him play differently. Indeed Booker T pretty much only played an M3 for the way it made him play.

Anyway good information you posted but I wouldn't chop and mod my M3 for anything. Use it with a Leslie (and a great player) and 9 out of 10 keyboard players could not tell if it's a B3 or not.

Long live the tone wheel organs!
I've never seen an ebony m3 before. Is that the original color? They sure do sound good through a 122 or 147 or similar. My brother has am m3 from about 1960 with a 147 and a Leslie footswitch preamp which can be used for a guitar or to dirty up the organ sound.
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Hammond offered the M-3 in ebony and "blonde" in addition to the standard walnut finish. They aren't common, but they turn up from time to time. A fellow wheelhead and I share a rented workshop (our respective significant others wanted us to take our crazy hobby elsewhere, as these things do take up a bit of space!) and we had an ebony M-3 pass through. A local high school has it in their music department now. We did a left-hand bass mod, drops the lower manual an octave without the use of effects of any kind. You basically shift the lower manual harness up 12 frequencies and bridge the now-empty 12 terminals to the ones an octave higher. You end up with "resultant" bass which comes from mixing a tone with a tone a fifth above it (you must have the first black drawbar pulled along with one or both of the first two white ones for this to work) creating a resultant tone an octave below the fundamental. It makes the little M-3 more useful, although if a future buyer doesn't know what has been done they'll be in for a shock if they ever try to use the registrations in sheet music for organ and play the piece as written! :D

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Cool. Thanks. Do you just use an octave stomp box? Or a fancier pitch shifter?

I use the BOSS OC-3. The guy who came up with the idea had an OC-2 I believe, but the poly function of the OC-3 lets you pull out drawbars that aren't octaves so you have a tiny bit more control.



I know you from the organ forum
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Joined: May 2005
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
what is an i26 kit? I have a cherry finish '55 M3 and the only thing I miss is the vibrato settings on the big organs. I'm fine with the sound of the upper register. Even through a Pro3 which is a bit brighter than a real Leslie. Every so often it would be nice to hear a counterpoint bass line and I miss the extra octave and a half, but then I just do a Neal Evans and play that part on a synth. My Motif can do the low notes well enough. But nothing sounds or makes you play the same as a real tonewheel machine.

To the OP, I reread that this is for a road instrument. And as much as I agree with Silvertone about defiling old Hammonds, I'd consider a spinet if you don't need to kick bass on it, and maybe even a chopped spinet for the packing convenience. I've seen people wrestle B3s on dollys into lowboy trailers single handed, but it doesn't look like fun. I can pop my M3 onto a piano dolly and get it around by myself pretty easily. Back in the '70s I had to move an M100 every night. Two people for it, same as two people for the Rhodes. A full size Hammond is pretty much a four man thing unless someone's a showoff.
Find a vintage i26 kit on ebay and hook it up. It allows you to use an external Leslie cabinet, the internal M3 speaker or both at the same time. I have recordings done both ways... both sound great (partly because of the speaker they used in the M3) but I do love a tone wheel with a rotating Leslie.

Mine is a 1955, factory made, mint condition one that I bought for 200.00.

I'm hunting down a 145 cabinet for it now (or a 45 to mod). Tired of borrowing friends 147, 122's and 145's.
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#30
8th July 2011
Old 8th July 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,078

Aeolian is offline
hammond organ prices?

Ah, thanks. I found a circuit on hammondwiki and built my own tap. Which I feed into a Pro 3. Haven't tried going together with the internal speaker.

What I'd really like to find is a vibrato mod to get that subtle Jimmy Smith warble. I can't remember what setting it is on the knob on the big organs, but my M3 doesn't do it.
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