NS-10's for 5.1?

[rll]

We're planning to expand our room to include 5.1 mixing. We've looked at the Blue Sky system which seems very decent. Since NS-10's are such a basic part of our monitor system, I'm interested to see who has used NS-10's for 5.1 and how you're dealing with bass management, amplification and sub. Not wishing to get into the typical NS-10 debate, just experiences good and bad, and suggestions about making it work if we go that route. Thanks for any help,

rll

[cequencer]

tried it and didn't like it. not enough bass response. i was much happier with the mackie h624's.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by rll

Thanks for any help,

rll

5 NS10's and a sub?

Are you Chris Lord Alge or something?



Again i thought April Fools day was not for a couple of weeks.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

5 NS10's and a sub?

Are you Chris Lord Alge or something?



Again i thought April Fools day was not for a couple of weeks.

[ducter]

Originally Posted by rll

We're planning to expand our room to include 5.1 mixing. We've looked at the Blue Sky system which seems very decent. Since NS-10's are such a basic part of our monitor system, I'm interested to see who has used NS-10's for 5.1 and how you're dealing with bass management, amplification and sub. Not wishing to get into the typical NS-10 debate, just experiences good and bad, and suggestions about making it work if we go that route. Thanks for any help,

rll

I have heard an NHT A20 system that was very, very decent, it was equiped with their B20 sub.

It was at a studio where lots of very good concert DVD in 5,1 mixs have been done.

[dokushoka]

MMmm yeah you'll probably need something more of a full range driver.

[rll]

I guess I'm asking the question, if some engineers are using NS-10's with good results for stereo work-- some adding a sub, others not, what changes so dramatically for 5.1? (I'm aware that NS-10's are not fullrange, but then I would argue that alot of people's 5.1 home theatre systems are less than stellar.) Does the idea of the NS-10 as a tool that translates well in stereo, not apply in 5.1?

rll

[James Lehmann]

NS10's for 5:1?

Nuts!

Get yourself an in-situ demo of the BlueSkys (I have the ProDesks here) and weep at the difference! This is a monitoring system that has been designed from the ground up to work at 5:1 - you'll need the Bass Management Controller obviously, but once you have that in place you are sorted.

By all means keep the Yammies for checking radio mixes etc but don't buy more of them, unless you are the ultra-cautious type and just want some spare parts!

[zboy2854]

I agree. The fact alone that NS10s are passive and would basically require 3 power amps, which if you are being diligent means you'll want all 3 amps to be identical make and model, plus the sub is a whole headache that you really don't want to get into.

At a studio I do a lot of work at, we have the Blue Sky 5.1 system with the bass management controller, and it sounds fantastic. At the very least, I'd suggest that whatever you get, make sure all 5 satellite monitors are active and not passive. Saves a whole other level of hassle.

[rll]

Thanks for the input sluts, much appreciated. The hassle factor alone is crazy I know, but I'm stubborn, and still wondering if anyone does (or will admit) that they use the yama's for 5.1. And outside of the hassle factor/bass management, what about the question of why the yama's can work so well for stereo and not 5.1? I do know several well respected engineers who have added a sub to the standard stereo ns-10 set up, and are very happy. So, is this a frankenstein I should not bring to life?

rll

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by rll

Thanks for the input sluts, much appreciated. The hassle factor alone is crazy I know, but I'm stubborn, and still wondering if anyone does (or will admit) that they use the yama's for 5.1. And outside of the hassle factor/bass management, what about the question of why the yama's can work so well for stereo and not 5.1? I do know several well respected engineers who have added a sub to the standard stereo ns-10 set up, and are very happy. So, is this a frankenstein I should not bring to life?

rll

Don't personally know of anyone using NS10's for 5.1. There's no reason they wouldn't work in a 5.1 setup as opposed to stereo from a sonic perspective, the issue is really all about implementation, from the multiple power amp issue as previously mentioned, to the bass management issue, which is a whole separate thing.

With a package such as the Blue Sky's for instance, it's all integrated and matched for optimal sonic results, plus the bass management controller gives you a dedicated volume control for the whole system, whereas if you try to Frankenstein something together you have to figure out a solution on your own.

This also doesn't bring into play the issue of NS10's being discontinued, and parts being harder to come by. When you're looking at 5 of those units that will need drivers replaced from time to time, added to all the other issues previously mentioned, it just doesn't make much sense at all. Better to buy a dedicated 5.1 package that gives you perfect integration, plus full warranty and support on speakers that are still being made and can easily be serviced if needed.

[djwayne]

I have a "Frankenstien" set up that uses two NS-10's in a 5.1 setup, My rear speakers are two sets of speaker cabinets similar to NS-10's. I found that they definitely do NOT have the bass output by themselves, hence the need for additional cabinets. The sub helps tremendously, but getting a 12" threeway speaker for the fronts, made the biggest improvement...here's my "Frankenstein" setup.

Fronts- Yamaha 3-way Home Theater speakers with 12's and the NS-10's

Center-channel- Vidsonics cc cabinet, a cheapo I found on E-bay, but sounds great.

Rears- a small set of Bose Bookshelf speakers and a set of very old Ampex studio monitors, both sets are similar to the NS-10 in size and design, and sound.

Sub-100 watt powered Kenwood.

All combined, it sounds great and I feel no need to change anything. I've tried many different combinations of cabinets, and this is the best setup I've come up with. I know that it is recommended to have matching speakers, but with my experience, as long as you adjust the various volumes to make them match, using unmatched cabinets can indeed work.

For professional grade mixing though, I'd go with a matched set of speakers, but for my personal home studio, this is working out great for me, and blows away most home systems. The important thing is having the 5.1 configuration. For mixing for tonal qualities I can mix on my front monitors, then re-direct things to the other speakers as desired.

I'd say get your amps and wiring in place, and try it out with whatever cabinets you already have. Changing or upgrading speaker cabinets can be done at anytime.

[rll]

Ah, so one of you comes out of the wood work! Thanks DJ Wayne for the post... any others willing to come clean????! The Blue Sky comments are definitely making sense; I just like to really investigate things before taking anything on.

I've been in situations where people say you can't or shouldn't do something, only to find that the ovbious solution was not always the best. Our room was not built for 5.1. However, plenty of the guys in suits said our room would suck to mix in, and the opposite has turned out. It's not supposed to work, but it does, and for a broad range of mixers. (One of the hassles of the Blue Sky system is having to tear our monitor system down for each 5.1 mix, from the present ns-10/Pro-Ac set up and Bryston does offer a 5 channel amp.)


rll

[djwayne]

You brought up a big point, the ROOM. Speaker selection should be made to work with your room. I have a relatively small sized room and don't need much more, as a matter of fact, I'm packed in here. A larger room would require larger speakers to accomplish the same sound as I'm getting. And the opposite is also true, any larger speaker would be overkill for me. I don't want anything larger or smaller than what I currently have.

So let room size and acoustics be your guide, not the current fad or marketing jibberish.

I've heard nothing but praises for Blue Sky on various forums, so no, I'm not bashing them.

[dokushoka]

I work with NS-10s in an AMAZING sounding room, and still, they have only limited uses... so my advice would still be to consider something else (no matter what your room is like...)

Let us know what you end up with.

[djwayne]

An additional comment, the NS-10 were very noticablely not covering the low end, and that's why I went with the 3-way Home Theater cabinets, but the 3-ways also did a nicer job on the high end as well, cymbols came out sounding crystal clear. The NS-10 do well on the mid-range but that's about it. Together though, both sets of speakers do the job niceley, so that's why I use both on my front mains.

I also have a speaker select switch that will turn off the 3 ways, and allow me to monitor with just the NS-10's if I want, but I rarily do.

[djwayne]

"Frankenstein" setup.... he,he,he..... that's a good way of describing it.....

IT'S ALIVE !! IT'S ALIVE !!!!!!!

[rll]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies... now aren't you interested as to why people feel comfortable on ns-10's for stereo and not for 5.1? We've been through the obvious, but just from a sonic perspective, and keep in mind I'm talking about for music only, not for film.

I still feel in some ways that 5.1 is in a Frankenstein stage

rll

[djwayne]

There's no mystery there. NS-10's are a mid rangy speaker that works well for some people. Many people don't like them for anything other than the "well if 95% of the studios have them I have to have them too" mentality.

If you're going to go to the effort of putting a 5.1 system together, you want something that sounds better than NS-10's.

My creation is basically what I happened to have laying around, or found a great deal on, and put it together to make it work, and as it turned out, works well for me. If I were starting out fresh with a decent sized budget, I'd have something else, but for what I'm doing at home, it's fine, and didn't cost much, but I still get to enjoy the 5.1 experience.

I am able to mix for 5.1, but quite frankly, there's no demand for it, within my circle of friends. Nobody cares but me. So what's the point for me to spend $1000's of dollars on monitors ??

[XSergeantD]

I've set them up once for 5.1 (w/ KRK sub) but generally people have used Genelec or KRK E8's for 5.1 sessions, though Kevin uses his KRK6000 passive monitors the few times he did surrounds at Hit. Not sure if he used them when doing the Zepplin stuff, but I'd bet that he did.

[rll]

Guys-- again, thanks for the replies... Something obvious occured to me in that working on a system that is a bit more of a standard ( Blue Sky, genelecs, etc), as some of you suggested, is going to translate better to the outside world, and since these projects are headed there, it makes sense. I'm probably nervous about having to learn another set of monitors-- the pro-ac/ ns-10 combo is working really well for us in our room. Makes me think of wanting to add 3 more pro-acs-- ugh, if only they were powered... who else makes a decent 5 channel amp besides Bryston?


rll

[mixerguy]

In my experience - the Blue Sky stuff is NOT cool.

Try 5 Event SP8 and a sub and a SPL 2489 monitor control box.

done and done.

YMMV.

[djwayne]

Oh really, tell us more.....