Because you Fit The Suit

[studiokatz]

I'm not a big fan of "The Brady Bunch" but one episode really rings true for me and it's the one where Gregg tries to be a rock star and finds out that the only reason he was hired was because he fit the suit (costume).

Sadly, this is what the music industry has sunk to.
Busta Rhymes?
Missy Misdemeanor.
Lil' Kim

WTF?


Take a look at MYV/VH1 lately?

Quick humm a couple of licks from xxxyyy artist......

Bet you can't......

But I'll bet every single one of you slutz can humm a part of those animated United Airline commercials which feature Gershwins Rahpsody In Blue.....

(I think that thing biting on the desk is hysterical)

Why?


That tune is a masterpiece....

Missy is a pile of crap that is totally irrelevent....

Me?

I'm a 46 YO old school Jazz piano player and nite after nite I hear the same story "where is the good music" and not from just old farts like me either......
I do weddings all the time where the couple wants old jazz stuff....
Young people, who have had it with today's music.

I think the extremely low ratings of the Grammies and Oscars are proof of this.


My parents hated the Beatles, understandable because they were different than Tommy Dorsey and Glenn Miller...Still, the Beatles music has lived on....

Where is today's music going to be in 10 years?

Forgotton is my predicition.

I see at least 10 people a week with demo's who want me to master, track, tweak for them.

Sadly, 99 percent of them are so bad it's not even funny anymore but pathectic.

So what's the deal with today's music scene?

Are the production houses looking for someone to fit the suit?
Sure seems that way to me.

[lordmiguel]

OK. Feel better now? Lots of crap = small and home studios and basically anyone that wants to record. Lil Kim, Busta et. al? they are vets and the game was different back then, would they get signed today? maybe, but lemme tell ya, i've heard MUCH worse. are you showing your age? probabaly. but its only gonna get worse. i'll hook you up with my dad, you'll have lots to talk about. remember, video killed the radio stars. labels still perform some market research on artists before releasing them, if you don't like what the kids approve of today, stick with teaching piano. i'll take your clients.

[studiokatz]

Originally Posted by lordmiguel

OK. Feel better now? Lots of crap = small and home studios and basically anyone that wants to record. Lil Kim, Busta et. al? they are vets and the game was different back then, would they get signed today? maybe, but lemme tell ya, i've heard MUCH worse. are you showing your age? probabaly. but its only gonna get worse. i'll hook you up with my dad, you'll have lots to talk about. remember, video killed the radio stars. labels still perform some market research on artists before releasing them, if you don't like what the kids approve of today, stick with teaching piano. i'll take your clients.

Feel better?
Yea, I guess I need to vent now and then

As far as Bust, Lil' Kim and so forth, Vets?
Hardly....
Crap?
Yes...that describes them....
Isn't Kim in Jail?
How about Busta?
Didn't his chauffer get gunned down right in front of ol' Busta and he claims he saw nothing?
How about Puffy, who actually has talent...
Guns all over his ride?
Yes he pleads ignorance....

Come on, we ain't talking about the Beatles getting busted for some weed.....

These people are garbage.
They have no talent, but they are able to suck in the young ghetto kids.....
It's no different than kids playing hoops in the park all trying to be the next Jordan.
Great to have dreams, but reality is more important when it comes to putting foof on the table.

Piano lessons?
Never had one.
I hear it...I can play it...NOTE FOR NOTE....with the exception of heavy classical....
I've had the pleasure of working with the best and when I see/hear shit like I hear on MTV and VH1 it makes me sad.....

Video did kill the radio, that's true and I really have nothing against video at all.
Some are very creative.
However most are shit...

Even people like Jon Mayer, Alcia Keys, Nora Jones who actually do have talent get boring after a set or two.
I like jazz, but 5 minutes of Norah and I want out......

Maybe I'm cynical, maybe like you say I need to talk to your dad
but I just see the entire industry as a sewer trap waiting for someone to flush.
Like I said, the Grammy's and Oscars were a total flop viewer wise.
Doesn't that say something?

[max cooper]

I think music is only responding to what people seem to want. You're a jazz guy, so fair enough. I'm mostly a rock and roll guy, so I think that if you didn't hate what the kids are listening to, it wouldn't be any fun.

Just for perspective, here's a line from Goldfinger, which was released in 1964.

"My dear girl, there are some things that just aren't done, such as drinking Dom Perignon '53 above the temperature of 38 degrees Fahrenheit. That's just as bad as listening to the Beatles without earmuffs! "

Who would have thought that we'd be discussing Paulie's bass playing as if it were a fine Bordeaux? But it certainly is. Enough people thought they were talentless noisemakers back then, but there's been a paradigm shift. People will be discussing Kanye West's work down to the finer details because that's what happens.

If you were a rocker in '57 you'd never want to drive a '57 Chevrolet, because that's what your grandmother might drive. You'd want a '34 Ford or something. Time can make a lot of difference.

Look, check these points out:

Most people seem to live in "suburban" housing developments where they cut down all the old growth before anything gets built. In a lot of places it's almost totally impossible to stay ahead of the depreciation curve since their home has value not because it's well-built, attractive and comfortable, but because it's new. One mile away there are brand new ones, so who would buy a used one. And the mullions aren't even real.

The U.S. interstate highway system has become, for a large part, totally unsightly and tacky and on top of that, one section of businesses is totally indistinguishable from another section many states away. Lesse, there's a Cracker Barrel, a Chili's, a Chevron, a Wendy's, a Taco Bell, a 7-11 so we must be in... uh....

People's obsession with the lives of celebrities has reached an all-time high. Why have a life when you can read and watch about someone more glamorous and exciting than yourself?

T.V. T.V. T.V. T.V. Need I say more?

A new study revealed that one in FIVE calories consumed in the United Stated is soda pop.

And don't get me started on politics.

The music can't be anything but a mirror. The music is shaped by the world. If it didn't strike a resonant chord, it wouldn't be selling. You can't say it's being crammed down people's throats because the labels definitely take huge losses on stuff that they promote like crazy but never ends up catching on.

I don't like the gun thing. I lost a brother to a stray bullet from a random gang shooting. But the guns would be there without the music. It's irresponsible, but it's style. People have been co-opting gangster style for many, many years.

How many bands looked like the Hell's Angels?

Originally Posted by studiokatz

Like I said, the Grammy's and Oscars were a total flop viewer wise.

Maybe it's not the music but the concept of giving out awards for a creative endeavor. The award is you got to make the music or movie; and/or you got to hear the music or see the movie.

It's a totally flawed concept. The Oscars were not designed for public consumption; they were an insider deal that wasn't televised.

Plus, the results are weird. I just read that in '62, best new artist went to Robert Goulet. Not Bob Dylan, who was also a new artist in '62.

While I do agree that most of the new music you mentioned sucks, There is a ton of new music out that I love and would hate to see the baby go out with the bathwater.

Hell, I don't care for my taxes going into a new symphony hall that I can't track in. If the art cannot support itself, then it should die. This is called evolution. Taxes should not support art.

Now, on to the Oscar and Grammies.
I don't think the low turn out has as much to do with the poor music and movies out today nearly as much as it does people not giving a crap about a bunch of industry pros getting together to tell eachother how great they all are.

ghey!


D

[SoulSpace]

There is truly GREAT new music being made now...in ALL genres. You just have to search for it and sift through a bunch of junk. And the search is easy; CDBaby, Myspace, etc. You gotta use that good old Internet, bro. And I am talking about Jazz as well as other genres. Great music out there.

It's just that mass media corporate music has been dumbed down for the masses, appealing to the lowest common denominator, most people now don't really CARE about music anymore, not like they used to. Too many other ways to spend their time; video games, 200+ channels of TV, Internet, etc. Smooth Jazz?...PLEASE...I'd rather be subjected to water torture.

But when you do find that artist that speaks to you...SUPPORT him/her/them. Because they need your support.

Him/her/them will probably NOT be getting signed and pushed out to the masses.

The good thing is...the artist you find will probably even return your email.

Should this go in the rant directory?

[OVERNIGHT]

Answer:
64% of all music sold in western europe and america is sold to girls<19yrs old and boys<20yrs old. Specifically the biggest groups are 16yr old girls and 17yr old boys.
They don't care about anything but sex and what facilitates sex consciously or unconsciously.

Of course, this is also the group with the fewest scruples about and is the saviest at downloading music for free. So.... maybe things will change.... or will continue to change.

[timjames]

OF ANY GENRE , AT ANY TIME, MUSIC (MOST OF IT) HAS ALWAYS SUCKED!!!! MISSY IS BRILLIANT. END OF STORY.... MAN ITS TIME TO LET THE BITTERNESS GO.


TIM JAMES

[AlexLakis]

I will agree with one thing, which I've stated many times before. Music that has come out in the past decade or so will be forgotten a decade or so from now. There has been a severe drop in the "timeless" music catagory. Nobody's gonna care about this crap. You know why? Because most of it isn't art: it's a PRODUCT. A product created and designed with the sole purpose of taking your hard-earned dollar. And the record companies are wondering why everybody's downloading this crap for free? Your record sales are down? No shit! Your target audience has either grown up and out of your intended 14-year-old demographic, or has moved on to being force-fed with whatever the next trend on the top 40 is. One interesting statistic will be...for all these "rock bands" that have become ever-so-popular in the past few years...I wonder how much of a surplus there will be of fast food employees in the future?

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I will agree with one thing, which I've stated many times before. Music that has come out in the past decade or so will be forgotten a decade or so from now.

I don't necessarily agree. The music won't be forgotten, but many of the bands and artists will. Yes, labels don't develop talent anymore, its true. But a good song is a good song, and there's plenty of them out there. The pina colada song still generates good royalty streams for gods sake. I bet you'll still be hearing lots of todays songs 10 years from now. Also, one artist that pops into my head at the moment is usher. get used to him, if you hate his music you're really gonna hate it on the classics rotations in 2016.

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by studiokatz

Feel better?
These people are garbage.
They have no talent, but they are able to suck in the young ghetto kids.....

Hate to tell ya....the biggest consumer of hip hop in america is...........white kids! go ask your major label contacts to break down the numbers.

i think a lot of us have felt this kind of remorse for popular music at one time or another. for me it was the 80's when i couldn't identify and relate to a lot of all the homosexual music (and i'm not being derogatory). flock of seagulls, yaz, boy george, george michael, duran duran, new order, the cure i can't go on because it hurts. i withdrew into hard rock since it was all i could identify with.

its just disgust with pop culture, which is expressed through music, not the other way around. That i can't help you with, but i bet most of our parents thought the same exact thing when they were our age. i hear its only downhill from here, but then again i'll give you my father's number and you can have a nice chat

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I will agree with one thing, which I've stated many times before. Music that has come out in the past decade or so will be forgotten a decade or so from now. There has been a severe drop in the "timeless" music catagory.

Ok i'll put you on the spot:

Name at least 5 timeclass classics done in the 80's and 90's.

And everyone has to agree on your choices.

What are the chances of that happening?

Point is the songs you consider timeless classics were not written or produced to be timeless classics to begin with.

They were just inspired works and people took to them enough for them to become classics.

Now the question that begs asking is why isn't happening enough these days?

Or is it?

I doubt that its because people arent inspired enough to write or produce songs.

If this were true we would all be out of work.

Than it has to be something else.

[natpub]

Most the "back in the old days" rants are just that.

Still, there is increasingly a worrisome progression towards ever-quicker gratification--

"Fast food nation-ish" in its delicious yet un-nutritious (possibly cancerous) nature.

The roots appear to be in a nebulous sort of apathy, a soul-less simulation of soul.

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I doubt that its because people arent inspired enough to write or produce songs.

Good point on the "people" part. I feel like it should be reminded out that a significant amount of popular music today (i.e. not rock), the producer is the new artist, writing the songs. Neptunes anyone? Wasn't so much of that in the 70's, so this is a hard thing for people to grasp when bands wrote all their own music. Some of the production will be outdated but yet even so still we hear a lot of janet jackson today. Some of those Kelly Clarkson songs may not appeal to GS people, but i'd bank they will be in the classic rotation down the road. However, the classics in 10 years won't sound anything like they used to when the GS men were wearing underoos. Some are just stuck in their genre of days gone by. For all of the negative attributes of the American culture today, at least now we've got some rhythm.

[SoulSpace]

C'mon Thrillfactor,

Five timeless classics between two decades (80's-90's)?

OK, I'll try;

Queen; Another One Bites the Dust, 1980
Grover Washington/Bill Withers; Just the Two of Us, 1981
Rolling Stones; Start Me Up; 1981
Earth, Wind and Fire; Let's Groove; 1981
Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warren; Up Where We Belong; 1982
Michael Jackson; Billie Jean, 1983 (we ain't even going to list the other 5+ classics)
Eurythmics; Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This); 1983
Billy Joel; Uptown Girl; 1983
Culture Club; Do You Really Want To Hurt Me; 1983

And I am only up to 1983...(Can we all agree that all of the above are classics...OK, I have a preference...)

You get the message. There at least a couple of songs per YEAR that are close to classic. Maybe 5 or less per year in the current screwy music biz situation. Maybe less...


But I do get your point... Where are the classics TODAY!

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by SoulSpace

C'mon Thrillfactor,

Five timeless classics between two decades (80's-90's)?

OK, I'll try;

Queen; Another One Bites the Dust, 1980
Grover Washington/Bill Withers; Just the Two of Us, 1981
Rolling Stones; Start Me Up; 1981
Earth, Wind and Fire; Let's Groove; 1981
Joe Cocker and Jennifer Warren; Up Where We Belong; 1982
Michael Jackson; Billie Jean, 1983 (we ain't even going to list the other 5+ classics)
Eurythmics; Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This); 1983
Billy Joel; Uptown Girl; 1983
Culture Club; Do You Really Want To Hurt Me; 1983

And I am only up to 1983...(Can we all agree that all of the above are classics...OK, I have a preference...)

You get the message. There at least a couple of songs per YEAR that are close to classic. Maybe 5 or less per year in the current screwy music biz situation. Maybe less...


But I do get your point... Where are the classics TODAY!

classic for you. I could never stand 4 of your picks. when my parents were your age (guessing by looks) they did not care for any of the music you just listed. this is analagous to the argument you are making, they would have made the exact same argument back then you are making today. pop music isn't aimed at the 30 or 40 something market, not back then, not now. i won't care for half of the stuff today that becomes "classic" in 10-20 years but then again i don't care for half the old stuff that is classic. but i love music and it keeps my mind youthful (well, i'm single so maybe that's also a factor) and i can appreciate half of what the kids are listening to today. there will surely be more than 5 cuts a year that are become so called classic, if you were 16 and in high school. you've just got to step outside yourself to see it.

[studiokatz]

Originally Posted by lordmiguel

classic for you. I could never stand 4 of your picks. when my parents were your age (guessing by looks) they did not care for any of the music you just listed. this is analagous to the argument you are making, they would have made .

Wow what a real eye opener this thread has been for me! First I'd like to apologize for going way over the top. Secondly I agree with just about everything, everyone has said! (except maybe missy being a genius or whatever)! I too couldn't deal with the 80's synthy sounding music even though I'm a keyboard player! All the fake saxs etc drove me nuts. In fact I actually like hip-hop because I enjoy the rythms of the tunes and I like the fact that kids are getting into music and creating. My daughter takes a hip-hop dance class and we are as white as they come!!
Music, IMHO, has no racial barriers but instead serves to knock down the foolish walls some ignorant people like to put up.

I think what needs to change in todays music, not all of it, but a good portion is the "gotta have it now, me, me, me,me attitude". I think it poisons the minds of the kids as much as some of the drug tunes of the 60's did for some kids. I do however feel there is no need for filthy language in music. Anger can be expressed more eloquently and the message will carry more weight.

I guess I am somewhat of a paradox because I look at todays artists and by in large, they can't sing without a bevy of gadgets, but they are more of an entire package deal.
Yet, I see the 60's with people like Bobby Vee and Fankie Avalon who were nothing more than Ken dolls who could more or less hold a tune.

So maybe not much has really changed after all!!

[dingo]

Originally Posted by SoulSpace

There is truly GREAT new music being made now...in ALL genres. You just have to search for it

That about sums it for me. Trash? All subjective. Hey, there's something for everyone. There's a ton of music out there. You can't expect the music to find you. So you go find it. Don't know where to look? Ask. Lurk. Seek. Enjoy the ride.

[Mike O]

Is it possible that what has changed is that the 'classics' will not come from the 'top of the charts'?

Several potential contributing factors:

1. More charts than there used to be (genre/subgenre)
2. Consolidation of radio and TV
3. Less music in the schools
4. Video did (help) kill the radio star (along w/number 1 above. This might mean that people first get to see 'artists' then listen. Listening has become a secondary activity in many respects. Form over (musical) substance?

[popmann]

Waaa waaa ....music sucks now...waaa waaa

Let's look at the Grammies...I didn't watch the whole thing...but, I saw Kelly clarkson doing one of the most powerful pop ballads in years--and singing the shit out of it. I saw the dude from Maroon5. John Legend's "Ordinary people" was up for awards. Mariah carey's still making good pop tunes, even if I don't like the amount of hip hop beats now backing her. Keith Urban is one of the best guitar players I've ever witnessed...while not her strongest tune, Faith Hill can belt the crap out of it...

What are you looking for? I mean, the Grammies have always been a small snapshot of the music scene...good artists not playing their best tunes...trendy crap that people won't remember in 5 years...I dare anyone to name me the revolutionary performances on the Grammies in "the good old days".

It is what it is.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by popmann

Waaa waaa ....music sucks now...waaa waaa

Let's look at the Grammies...I didn't watch the whole thing...but, I saw Kelly clarkson doing one of the most powerful pop ballads in years--and singing the shit out of it. I saw the dude from Maroon5. John Legend's "Ordinary people" was up for awards. Mariah carey's still making good pop tunes, even if I don't like the amount of hip hop beats now backing her. Keith Urban is one of the best guitar players I've ever witnessed...while not her strongest tune, Faith Hill can belt the crap out of it...

What are you looking for? I mean, the Grammies have always been a small snapshot of the music scene...good artists not playing their best tunes...trendy crap that people won't remember in 5 years...I dare anyone to name me the revolutionary performances on the Grammies in "the good old days".

It is what it is.

I don't know what Grammies you were watching, but I heard kelly clarkson screaming, not singing.
And Faith Hill, well, I still don't understand why she has a career.

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by lordmiguel

for me it was the 80's when i couldn't identify and relate to a lot of all the homosexual music (and i'm not being derogatory). flock of seagulls, yaz, boy george, george michael, duran duran, new order, the cure i can't go on because it hurts. i withdrew into hard rock since it was all i could identify with.

What the HELL are you talking about?

Duran Duran, The Cure, New Order?

They weren't homosexuals.

But I bet you liked Judas Priest... Oh no, he was a homosexual so you couldn't have.

Man, are you a homophobe or what?

And yes, before you say anything, some of my bust friends are gay cuz that's where all the hot chicks hang...



R.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

What the HELL are you talking about?

Duran Duran, The Cure, New Order?
They weren't homosexuals.
But I bet you liked Judas Priest... Oh no, he was a homosexual so you couldn't have.
Man, are you a homophobe or what?
And yes, before you say anything, some of my bust friends are gay cuz that's where all the hot chicks hang...



R.

I agree.

I was laucky to be spared the big hair US "Rock" band crap. As Iw as in Europe at the time. Thank god.
Kiss are a Joke, as were all those other puty lipped, mascaraa and lipstick weraign wankers.

[studiokatz]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I don't know what Grammies you were watching, but I heard kelly clarkson screaming, not singing.
And Faith Hill, well, I still don't understand why she has a career.

I have to agree with that. I kinda like Kelly, but she was really over the limit on that tune. Faith Hill? not bad but too MOR for me. I thought that group Sugarland was pretty good but unfortunately they had sound problems during the tune. I don't as a rule like CW music though. Even Sly looked totally freaked out and Paul Mcartney's decision to do Helter Skelter was a bit odd. He sounded good on that tune, but the other tune did wasn't too good IMHO. Overall I thought the Grammies were terrible, but not as bad as the Oscars. That RAP group that performed on the Oscars (I didn't see the entire tune and didn't get their name) "It's Hard Out Here For a Pimp" was fantastic. Great performance on that one.

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

What the HELL are you talking about? Duran Duran, The Cure, New Order? They weren't homosexuals. But I bet you liked Judas Priest... Oh no, he was a homosexual so you couldn't have. Man, are you a homophobe or what?
And yes, before you say anything, some of my bust friends are gay cuz that's where all the hot chicks hang...
R.

hmmm, not homophobic here. i live in manhattan, and have lots of gay friends, though i don't front that i can't always identify, how could i? but you're right, i should have said feminine or equivalent (though those bands ooze with latency). whilst those above mentioned bands may not have been queer everything about them was to me, still is. Got to say, your comment about judas priest was funny, i was thinking exactly that as i was typing yesterday. looking back its one of the funniest jokes ever played on macho headbangers. i'm still grinning. never bought jp, but my friends loved them and i was forced to cover them, still though it was pretty ggood music, but their music wasn't fem. by the way, my ending with hard rock as an adolescent came as the belilderment of buffont hairspray makeup wearing glam rock. music is an expression of identity, i just couldn't relate. not that different to how some people today can't relate with hip hop.

[popmann]

I don't know what Grammies you were watching, but I heard kelly clarkson screaming, not singing.
And Faith Hill, well, I still don't understand why she has a career.

Well, it's a pretty big one. Wonder on...

Would there be a throaty voiced singer that you think doesn't "scream"? I know screaming...neither do. Both throatier than hell, though.

[lordmiguel]

Originally Posted by popmann

Would there be a throaty voiced singer that you think doesn't "scream"? I know screaming...neither do. Both throatier than hell, though.

I think throaty sounds better, esp in pop music. I don't care for the sound of a hyper trained vocalist who sing 100% from their stomach and chest like opera singers. It doesn't sound natural to me. In fact, its not, it takes years of training to sing like that.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by timjames

OF ANY GENRE , AT ANY TIME, MUSIC (MOST OF IT) HAS ALWAYS SUCKED!!!! MISSY IS BRILLIANT. END OF STORY.... MAN ITS TIME TO LET THE BITTERNESS GO.


TIM JAMES

... and time to stop posting all in caps.

[JP11]

I loves me a good summing thread and a good today's music sucks thread!

Why does today matter anyway? Who's says the present is all that? Where is it written that you can't live in the past (or the future, if you can figure that one out)?

And if Uptown Girl is a classic, than clearly there are no standards...YMCA and Macho Man are classics, too (those are the 70s right? A classic time)...

So I'm watching American Idol...and one of the talented sings another old classic called Vincent (Starry Starry Night)...now granted, the guy who sang it did it in a very stodgy way and is a rather geeky fellow...but Simon Cowell (tastemaker extraordinaire) said it was an awful song, childish, something for 11 year olds...

Which is interesting, isn' it? I thought it was one of the more adult songs...how many pop songs are about Vincent Van Gogh?

I'm sure if a "cooler" dude had done the same song with a loop and fukked the melody up in that scatting melismatic queer way that I'm so frickin sick of, ol Simon would have loved it, as it would have seemed much more mature....

[mikebeck]

I've had this conversation a few times about modern classics and recent music quality. I usually end up thinking that some of it has to do with the problems of the medium.

It's hard to be a classic without being at least sort of popular.

And just as when cable TV brought a ton of extra channels, it mostly meant that there was more crap to wade through to find the good stuff. I quit watching TV.

I find the same thing with music - there's more of it out there, and maybe too much vying for my attention. It feels like the popularity contest is too desperate, probably more than it ever was. And probably why the checks are already written and waiting for the next name that "sounds like". Only louder, with less dynamics. Heh!

I rarely like what's on "popular" radio, I never watch awards shows. I tend to find out about music I end up liking from reading - either magazines or these kinds of forums.

Maybe it means that classics will become more personal, rather than universal (or maybe that's a self-canceling phrase). I wouldn't mind this too much, as long as there continues to be people that continue to care like it seems most of us here do. That might help to assure that the next batch of classics are always around the corner, however personal or universal they may be.

Okay, whose soapbox did I just steal? I think I'm done with it now.