Half Normalled Patchbay Makeing lower level?

[passionmax]

Hi,
I tried a experiment today. i tracked a synth bass through my usuall setup with my patchbay. The set up is the following

Synth unbalnced into the top row of a patchbay. Then the bottom back row is feed into the mixer unbalnced cable

Then I take a patch from the front for that synth channel and feed it to anothere patchbay that has my mic pres hooked up. These inputs are balanced. From there the signal leaves the micpre jack on the patchbay and into anothere patchbay balanced with my AD converter box.

I printed the track.

Step 2 I tracked the same synth part without going through the 1st patchbay that has all my synths hardwired to the mixing board. I think this is called half normalled patchbay.

I feed a 1/4" patch cord from the synth direct into the DI of my mic pre. The Mic pre again is in a balance patchbay which goes the signal is fed into another patchbay with my AD converter box.
The difference in sound quailty was huge.
What a difference. It sounded way louder and fuller lows and highs. Having way more depth to the sound.

On My original setup is there something wrong witht the way I have my synths setup in the patchbay. if so what do I need to do. Is there another way to keep all my synths in a patchbay and have them hardwired to my mixer without always having to patch them 1 by 1 or having the synths hardwired directly in to the mixer. Then I can patch them unless I unplug them.

why does my original setup degrade the sound so much. Do you loose quilaty when you are using a half normallized patchbay. Thanks

[faeflora]

You're using the half normalled bay incorrectly.

Right now you're losing half of your signal to the mixer. Half normalled bays send 1/2 the signal from the top hole into the bottom when you're patched into the top.

If you want to print 100% DI'd/pre'd/fx'd etc, then you'll need to plug a cable into the top hole for the synth output, patch up your fx/amplifukation, then route it back into the bottom hole to route it back to the mixer.

If you don't want to use the mixer inputs, and want to send the synth somewhere else (like your A/D input) then you'll need to plug a cable into the bottom hole and leave it dangling. Only then will the bottom hole not be receiving half of your synth signal.

Got it? Patchbay routage can sometimes be confusimimizatoring and I'm not sure if I explained everything comprehensensibly.

Oh and could someone confirm that I haven't screwed up my patchbay notions?

[passionmax]

Faeflora,
Thank you so much for the advise. I tried what you said. I had a Extreme lead pluginto the top back hole of the patch bay and then routed it out the from top hole to a API Mic pre. Then I have the patchbay half normallized so the back bottom hole is hardwired to my mixer. I put a shotrt patch cord in the bottom front hole and the level went up when I printed this time. thanks for the info. The next question is how much of a difference is there if I bought a patch bay that was bantum and soilder as opposed to the way I have it now which is standard 1/4 inch bay. I know there is a difference. But is it worth spending all the money to upgrade or should i just leav it
thanks

[faeflora]

Originally posted by passionmax
The next question is how much of a difference is there if I bought a patch bay that was bantum and soilder as opposed to the way I have it now which is standard 1/4 inch bay. I know there is a difference. But is it worth spending all the money to upgrade or should i just leav it
thanks

People debate about this occasionally.

Here's my opinion-

Basically, all a patchbay has to do is flow current front to back and back to front (in a normalled type of bay). There's no gain circuits or dynamics or anything complicated going on.

Does the signal in cheapo 1/4" TRS (~$100 patchbays) sound as good as in military style 1/4" or bantam style? To my ears, yah. The problem with TRS type bays is that they wear out pretty quickly. You'll start to get faulty crackling, intermittent connections eventually. Commercial studios can't afford the downtime of having to swap out old used patchbays. So they buy the more expensive military or bantam style bays which have jacks that are much more durable and can last many years.

If you're not running a commercial studio and don't have clients that will be pissed off because your patchbay starts crapping out in the middle of a session, and don't mind swapping bays every few months or years then keep what you have. If you do use a cheapo bay I'd recommend buying the most expensive (~$150) bay possible. Super cheap bays will likely have super cheap jacks with super sloppy soldering which could crappify your sound.

Oh, and if you do decide to wire up your own bay, make sure you are good at soldering before you start. A 96 point normalled bay will have 283 (I think) solder points! I can strip and solder about one point a minute if I try real hard and that took me a lot of practice!

Have fun, FF

[passionmax]

Hi,
cool info. Let me ask you. i am tracking synths mosty. What dirct box do you recommend that will preserve or enhance the best quailty especially the low end becuase I am producing electronica music. I have heard people talk about the Avalon U5, Groove tubes Ditto and the Demter
let me know if you know any of these
thanks

[faeflora]

U5 is great. Demeter is cleaner.

I'd get U5 for synth. It has a useful eq also. More distorted AKA warmer than the Demeter

Haven't used the ditto.

Search GS for threads on the ditto. There was a big one recently.

[Vaphoron]

I would definitely agree with getting a U5. I really makes a difference when you are recording lots of keys.