THIS is why plugins are the way forward.

[WalkoftheEarth]

Dude starts a plug in thread with guns-a-blazin?

The tools are only as good as the user makes them be. This is a travesty. Move on.

[throctal1]

For all you guys out there that think the effects make a real difference, remember this... the song makes the hit, not the effects! I'm fairly certain the Beatles didn't have this level of technology at their disposal in the '60's, but "Come Together" and "Hey Jude" were still monster hits...

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by throctal1

For all you guys out there that think the effects make a real difference, remember this... the song makes the hit, not the effects! I'm fairly certain the Beatles didn't have this level of technology at their disposal in the '60's, but "Come Together" and "Hey Jude" were still monster hits...

I think this justifies my claim that 50% of GS responses are made without reading the OP.

[ionian]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

I think this justifies my claim that 50% of GS responses are made without reading the OP.

You mean like those posts where someone asks, "I need a good vocal compressor and I can't afford more then $600" and someone always says, "API 2500" ?


Frank

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

I think this justifies my claim that 50% of GS responses are made without reading the OP.

Dude, you should get an SM7
"-)

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by ionian

You mean like those posts where someone asks, "I need a good vocal compressor and I can't afford more then $600" and someone always says, "API 2500" ?


Frank

Or when somebody says "I need some speaker stands recommending" and somebody else says 'GAP-73"

[Basslik]

This is interesting.
YouTube - WIRED science: Analog vs Digital music

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by therealbigd

.
This morning I brought up a project of over 100 tracks in Pro Tools, each with 2 or 3 signal processors on.

100 tracks?!? It sounds like a combination of poor arrangement, too many mics, too many alternate tracks, too many layers, and too many deferred decisions.

I can't imagine needing more than 16 tracks for a rock project.

For a while, I was seduced by all the nifty stuff you can do in a DAW. Then I realized that most of it is sheer ******y and does nothing to improve the end result.

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by Fenris

100 tracks?!? It sounds like a combination of poor arrangement, too many mics, too many alternate tracks, too many layers, and too many deferred decisions.

I can't imagine needing more than 16 tracks for a rock project.

For a while, I was seduced by all the nifty stuff you can do in a DAW. Then I realized that most of it is sheer ******y and does nothing to improve the end result.

Creativity is not chained to one way of thinking... Break the bonds and enjoy the freedom.

[cinealta]

In addition to sound there's something to be said for workflow efficiency enhancing artistic creativity.

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by cinealta

In addition to sound there's something to be said for workflow efficiency enhancing artistic creativity.

By having the freedom to create, rather than being locked into the technology. I guess sometimes the technology should be transparent.

[tha]-[acksaw]

Originally Posted by Fenris

I can't imagine needing more than 16 tracks for a rock project.

Tell that to Pink Floyd.

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw

Tell that to Pink Floyd.

[sleepingbag]

Originally Posted by tha]-[acksaw

Tell that to Pink Floyd.

Yup. Or to "Bohemian Rhapsody" :

Originally Posted by wikipedia

The choir effect was created by having May, Mercury, and Taylor sing their vocal parts continually for ten to twelve hours a day, resulting in 180 separate overdubs.

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by sleepingbag

Yup. Or to "Bohemian Rhapsody" :

The BAND was known as QUEEN...The song is kown as "Bohemian Rhapsody"...lol

"Recording began at Rockfield Studio 1 near Monmouth on 24 August 1975, after a 3-week rehearsal in Herefordshire. During the making of the track, an additional four studios—Roundhouse, SARM (East), Scorpion, and Wessex—were used. According to some band members, Mercury mentally prepared the song beforehand and directed the band throughout. Mercury used a Bechstein "concert grand" piano, which he played in the promotional video and the UK tour. Due to the elaborate nature of the song, it was recorded in various different sections, held together merely by a drum click to keep it in time."

Reference

[sleepingbag]

yeah, I do know that

I suppose technically I was using a literary device known as a 'synecdoche' there

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by sleepingbag

yeah, I do know that

I suppose technically I was using a literary known as a 'synecdoche' there

at this time in the morn here. AHHH!!! Was it your original intent tho. lol

[ofajen]

Originally Posted by Konketsu

Is there anyone out there who is still running Opcode Studio Vision or TurboSynth? Anyone remember how awesome those were?

When I bother to hook up the MIDI gear to a CPU, I run OMS, SVP 4.2.2, Galaxy, and Max on an OS 9 Wallstreet G3 machine and Studio 4 interface, but I rarely even do MIDI any more.

Really a bummer when David Ziccarelli left to go to Apple and Opcode floundered. I'm not sure there is anything today that equals the elegance and sophistication of Opcode's MIDI stuff. But these days I don't even sync up the tape machine with MIDI, it's all live to tape, one way or another.

Cheers,

Otto

[therealbigd]

Originally Posted by Fenris

100 tracks?!? It sounds like a combination of poor arrangement, too many mics, too many alternate tracks, too many layers, and too many deferred decisions.

Sorry but I didn't ask for your opinion on how I should arrange my sessions.

Have you really run out of proper arguments so you have to resort to stupid statements like that?

Oh and who said it was rock anyway?

[kbshearer]

Speaking from my experience, there have been times when I've happily used plug-ins, and not hardware. But there have also been times that I have labored with MANY different plug-in compressors to get a lead vocal to sit right in the mix. Then in furstration, I've used a hardware insert looped to a hardware compressor and instantly gotten the desired results. Conversely there have been times I've needed to do damage control on something....and a specific plug-in has been the only way to get there. There are some good sounding pug-ins out there, but the best hardware beats the crap out of plug-ins that I've tried especially for normal compression duties. This may change in the future, but right now it is certainly been my experience.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Speaking from my experience, there have been times when I've happily used plug-ins, and not hardware. But there have also been times that I have labored with MANY different plug-in compressors to get a lead vocal to sit right in the mix. Then in furstration, I've used a hardware insert looped to a hardware compressor and instantly gotten the desired results. Conversely there have been times I've needed to do damage control on something....and a specific plug-in has been the only way to get there. There are some good sounding pug-ins out there, but the best hardware beats the crap out of plug-ins that I've tried especially for normal compression duties. This may change in the future, but right now it is certainly been my experience.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

+1 Exactly! Nice post Kirt!

[ionian]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Speaking from my experience, there have been times when I've happily used plug-ins, and not hardware. But there have also been times that I have labored with MANY different plug-in compressors to get a lead vocal to sit right in the mix. Then in furstration, I've used a hardware insert looped to a hardware compressor and instantly gotten the desired results.

I totally agree... I go back and forth on a single session and there's not any one thing dominating. Plenty of times I've run vocals through hardware and crushed them only to find that they need just a smidge more to sit really good and I usually have no problem at that point just slapping a plug on it to squeeze it a bit more. There's no reason to send it back out in and again just for that.

And especially for ducking! I use the Sonitus compressor that came free with Sonar 8! Mostly because it's one of the only compressors that I found that I can sidechain with a track in Sonar. Any time I need to duck a bass/drum or vox/guitar thing - I slap the Sonitus compressor on it, and sidechaining is as easy as just sending from a track. Works like a charm - especially as I might adjust the ducking later on as I mix so I really like using the software comp for ducking. Anyway trying to get Sonar to do anything logical is like trying to play pick-up sticks with your butt cheeks so I thrilled that the free comp sidechains easily, but I digress...

Anything I might have to adjust later - de-essing, maybe compressing problem frequencies - anything like that I especially love plugs for. It's like I make broad strokes with the hardware to get the flavor and make the little adjustments to make it all work with the plugs.

Regards,
Frank

[u b k]

Plugins could disappear tomorrow, and I'd have to make some significant adjustments, but I'd get on with it.

If hardware disappeared tomorrow, I'd find another craft.

This can't be rationalized or argued, it has nothing to do with what's best or what's the way of future; for me this is emotional, it's all about sound and why I love it, why it makes me feel the things I do.

These boxes, they do things to sound that stir my soul. That's not some fringe benefit, that's the reason why I do this in the first place.


Gregory Scott - ubk

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by u b k

Plugins could disappear tomorrow, and I'd have to make some significant adjustments, but I'd get on with it.

If hardware disappeared tomorrow, I'd find another craft.

This can't be rationalized or argued, it has nothing to do with what's best or what's the way of future; this is emotional, it's all about sound and why I love it, why it makes me feel the things I do.

These boxes, they do things to sound that stir my soul. For me, that's not optional, it's essential.


Gregory Scott - ubk

Er not as simple. There is an inherent reluctance to change in us all.
For the emotion, you may collect equipment (and pay the MOST ridiculous prices for it will not be about sound, it will be about money making from supply & demand collecting as in antiques). For efficiency and getting the job done, the future IS DIGITAL.

You would probably be very surprised in blind tests (that is, with a blindfold on, so you cannot SEE what you are hearing), that you would not be able to tell the difference. Unless you were tuned to hearing certain distortions (which may be described as the character of the equipment, rather than the source).

[kbshearer]

Originally Posted by u b k

These boxes, they do things to sound that stir my soul. That's not some fringe benefit, that's the reason why I do this in the first place.


Gregory Scott - ubk

Especially the ones that you make!

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[kbshearer]

Originally Posted by AlexDaCat

Er not as simple. For the emotion, you may collect equipment (and pay the MOST ridiculous prices (for it will not be about sound, it will be about money making from supply & demand collecting as in antiques). For efficiency and getting the job done, the future IS DIGITAL.

Since none of us can look into the future, it may or may not be digital. As I said, there very well may be a time when 100% of what is currently offered by hardware may be completely emulated in software. It has not been my experience that we are currently there. maybe we'll get there, and maybe not. Digital is powerful, convenient and cost effective. It does not always capture the heart and soul and sonics of good hardware. To make blanket statements that dismiss this opinion in favor of only digital is not productive. No one is telling you that you have to use hardware. Let those who choose to, do so.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by kbshearer

Since none of us can look into the future, it may or may not be digital. As I said, there very well may be a time when 100% of what is currently offered by hardware may be completely emulated in software. It has not been my experience that we are currently there. maybe we'll get there, and maybe not. Digital is powerful, convenient and cost effective. It does not always capture the heart and soul and sonics of good hardware. To make blanket statements that dismiss this opinion in favor of only digital is not productive. No one is telling you that you have to use hardware. Let those who choose to, do so.

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

Tech is where the money is going..lol...It takes a while to develop software, therefore for the next 10 years, the future is most CERTAINLY DIGITAL...lol After that, well, I shall be happy to take your report...

Why is everyone so hell bent on EMULATION? The concept of advancement is to IMPROVE on current designs/techniques...I understand some of the OLD timers wanting to cash in on plugs whilst they can. However the coloration of sound is not what everybody regards as the norm...In classical recording toys are the last thing one is thinking about. Think THE WHOLE of the industry, not the one part.

Cutting tape with a razor, was not that much fun, digital editing has improved editing immensely. This facilitates an efficient workflow, allowing more time to be spent on creativity.

In reality, it cuts costs. Less overheads and costs equals a greater profit margin. When your business is flourishing, it will enable you to become more competitive, without, hopefully cutting the quality of the service.

[Switchcraft]

wait, so this thread presupposes that every studio today, and in the future will use plugins? And, that in fact, is the future?
THANK YOU Gearslutz!

I knew I came here for a reason. I will go back to making music with whatever the **** sounds right (and plugins too...)

file this under 'I dont give **** what we use, but how we use it'

I guess this is the wrong forum for that quote though...

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by u b k

Plugins could disappear tomorrow, and I'd have to make some significant adjustments, but I'd get on with it.

If hardware disappeared tomorrow, I'd find another craft.

This can't be rationalized or argued, it has nothing to do with what's best or what's the way of future; for me this is emotional, it's all about sound and why I love it, why it makes me feel the things I do.

These boxes, they do things to sound that stir my soul. That's not some fringe benefit, that's the reason why I do this in the first place.


Gregory Scott - ubk

The cacophony ceased for a moment, and there was music. For a brief moment.

[AlexDaCat]

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

wait, so this thread presupposes that every studio today, and in the future will use plugins? And, that in fact, is the future?
THANK YOU Gearslutz!

I knew I came here for a reason. I will go back to making music with whatever the **** sounds right (and plugins too...)

file this under 'I dont give **** what we use, but how we use it'

I guess this is the wrong forum for that quote though...

Read it as you will..

People still weave by hand...shear sheep manually, dig holes with a shovel..