Mid level studio console

[TyW]

I am about to invest in a new console for my modest studio and would like some advise if I can get it. I do a wide range of genres including, rock, gospel, and hiphop. Also like to mix OTB when I have the choice, I have some good mic pres already in some API, Langevin, Vintech, Toft units. I just signed up for the Toft ATB16 with the pilot program, but have plenty of time to back out of the deal if need be.

The Toft ATB16 is $3000, and I would like to stay around that price range. Used boards don't scare me. Thoughts?

Thanks!

[audioalchemy]

i would look at something like a Neotek. The new Toft console seems cool. I can't wait to check that one out myself. That being said, I love Neoteks. Getting one soon (on knees praying to god). Every Neotek I've worked on has been an awesome expirience. I just love 'em. Just please stay away from a Soundcraft.

just my .02

AudioAlchemy

[TyW]

Thanks,

I have never used a neotek, but I will check it out. It's just so damn hard to find something usable in this price range.

I actually feel the same way as you about the Soundcrafts... don't care for them.

--Ty

[CKK]

the soundcraft DC2000's kinda nice - the one I have been working on from time to time was open and full.

[allencollins]

Get an old ssl they are only 50k now . Like a small E series 48 or 56 input.
They are not the best sounding boards but they are good

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Get an old ssl they are only 50k now . Like a small E series 48 or 56 input.
They are not the best sounding boards but they are good

OK.

First. Ya might wanna consider actually reading the guys post before you jam a "BanjoMart counter guy" stylee post up here. He's not spending $50k.

Second, this is about the WORST advice I've seen on here in ohhhh... The last 25 minutes. For about 3,000 reasons I won't get into that are all related to actually OWNING AND OPERATING an LFAC and knowing what that entails. And that, in no small part, would be reflected in understanding WHAT KIND OF LIABILITY a "50 grand" used SSL 4000E would be under almost any conceivable circumstances... short of an Act of God.

Third. Since when is a 56input SSL 4000E a SMALL desk? It's about 6500 knobs and switches... which take up about 160 cubic ft. of space and weigh a little shy of a ton, just guessing off the top of my head.... But I'm in the ballpark.

Fourth. Your closing line is perhaps the most perplexing utterance I have come across in a good while. You seem to be a staunch proponent of mediocrity by default... or maybe it's a Jungian thing... the "Duality of Desk".

Hate to put such a negative post up here on GS... But this is terrible.

Just terrible advice.

SM.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by slipperman

OK.

First. Ya might wanna consider actually reading the guys post before you jam a "BanjoMart counter guy" stylee post up here. He's not spending $50k.

Second, this is about the WORST advice I've seen on here in ohhhh... The last 25 minutes. For about 3,000 reasons I won't get into that are all related to actually OWNING AND OPERATING an LFAC and knowing what that entails. And that, in no small part, would be reflected in understanding WHAT KIND OF LIABILITY a "50 grand" used SSL 4000E would be under almost any conceivable circumstances... short of an Act of God.

Third. Since when is a 56input SSL 4000E a SMALL desk? It's about 6500 knobs and switches... which take up about 160 cubic ft. of space and weigh a little shy of a ton, just guessing off the top of my head.... But I'm in the ballpark.

Fourth. Your closing line is perhaps the most perplexing utterance I have come across in a good while. You seem to be a staunch proponent of mediocrity by default... or maybe it's a Jungian thing... the "Duality of Desk".

Hate to put such a negative post up here on GS... But this is terrible.

Just terrible advice.

SM.

ok tough guy, but 50k is midlevel these days. Since when is 56 a small desk??? hmmm let me think..... How about since 128 to 256 modules is the standard in High end studios. So too me half of 128 would be mid level. An amek 24X8 would be low level. A soundcraft would be a demo studio.

Listen ssl's were great desks in the late 70's to the early 90's. Face reality they never sounded that great.. The compressors are ok but they never had any real vibe like neve or even a harrison.

Hey I justs got it (light bulb) You must own an ssl!

Sorry to bum you out but Ive seen small used ssl's as low as 30k
these days. sorry I didn't write nuendo or protools. An ssl is as about cool as an adat.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by slipperman

OK.

First. Ya might wanna consider actually reading the guys post before you jam a "BanjoMart counter guy" stylee post up here. He's not spending $50k.

Second, this is about the WORST advice I've seen on here in ohhhh... The last 25 minutes. For about 3,000 reasons I won't get into that are all related to actually OWNING AND OPERATING an LFAC and knowing what that entails. And that, in no small part, would be reflected in understanding WHAT KIND OF LIABILITY a "50 grand" used SSL 4000E would be under almost any conceivable circumstances... short of an Act of God.

Third. Since when is a 56input SSL 4000E a SMALL desk? It's about 6500 knobs and switches... which take up about 160 cubic ft. of space and weigh a little shy of a ton, just guessing off the top of my head.... But I'm in the ballpark.

Fourth. Your closing line is perhaps the most perplexing utterance I have come across in a good while. You seem to be a staunch proponent of mediocrity by default... or maybe it's a Jungian thing... the "Duality of Desk".

Hate to put such a negative post up here on GS... But this is terrible.

Just terrible advice.

SM.

ok tough guy, but 50k is midlevel these days. Since when is 56 a small desk??? hmmm let me think..... How about since 128 to 256 modules is the standard in High end studios. So too me half of 128 would be mid level. An amek 24X8 would be low level. A soundcraft would be a demo studio.

Listen ssl's were great desks in the late 70's to the early 90's. Face reality they never sounded that great.. The compressors are ok but they never had any real vibe like neve or even a harrison.

Hey I justs got it (light bulb) You must own an ssl!

Sorry to bum you out but Ive seen small used ssl's as low as 30k
these days. sorry I didn't write nuendo or protools. An ssl is about as cool as an adat.

[Messiah]

so good a response it was needed twice...

he ain't talking about an SSL dude, be a smartass somewhere else, i think that is what slipperman was getting at.

help or shut up, don't feed your own ego.dfegad

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Messiah

so good a response it was needed twice...

he ain't talking about an SSL dude, be a smartass somewhere else, i think that is what slipperman was getting at.

help or shut up, don't feed your own ego.dfegad

Thanks brother but I have no ego. My life is as boring as yours

To be honest, when I looked at his post I thought he wrote
30000 not 3000. So my bad. You guys need to lighten up.
Don't be so serious. None of this stuff makes one bit of difference on the
scale of life. If this was a site on terrorism or world poverty
that would be a different story

lighten up thanks!

[TyW]

Originally Posted by allencollins

ok tough guy, but 50k is midlevel these days. Since when is 56 a small desk??? hmmm let me think..... How about since 128 to 256 modules is the standard in High end studios. So too me half of 128 would be mid level. An amek 24X8 would be low level. A soundcraft would be a demo studio.

Guys, I appreciate any opinions you have to offer, but 50k out of my price range. I realize I said midlevel originally and maybe that was a bad choice of words. Thats my way of saying, "Please don't make me buy a Mackie!"

I've got about 3k to spend. I can maybe pull a little more together. So in response to allencollins, I'm trying to shoot somewhere between Soundcraft and SSL. Like most people I want the filet mignon on the hamburger budget. I know I'm not gonna get the best out there for the price, but it needs to sound good enough to not piss me off when I use it.

[Messiah]

The standard consensus round these parts for your budget is usually Midas.

Allen and Heath desks also tend to score favourably (look for GS3000, GS3, GL2/3K's).

There's a Yamaha desk that's primarily a live board that I used a few years back that folks always seem to rave about. I thought it was good too, well laid out, sounded good, good eq, etc... I can't remember the model though... (not good for slut really!)

[Messiah]

ok, this was the Yamaha desk in question...

(ignore me, pretty boring and unsociable as allencollins rightly pointed out. I've just realised how much weight I have put on since this pic too...fook..,)

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by allencollins

ok tough guy, but 50k is midlevel these days. Since when is 56 a small desk??? hmmm let me think..... How about since 128 to 256 modules is the standard in High end studios. So too me half of 128 would be mid level. An amek 24X8 would be low level. A soundcraft would be a demo studio.

Listen ssl's were great desks in the late 70's to the early 90's. Face reality they never sounded that great.. The compressors are ok but they never had any real vibe like neve or even a harrison.

Hey I justs got it (light bulb) You must own an ssl!

Sorry to bum you out but Ive seen small used ssl's as low as 30k
these days. sorry I didn't write nuendo or protools. An ssl is about as cool as an adat.

No. I don't own an SSL.

But I actually know something about them.

And with this HILARIOUS return post... you prove forever and beyond a doubt... You do not.

If your going to come on a gear related audio forum. You might want to know something about the forum theme.

I think you would be better off here: http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/

You can tell them about how Sigor Ros is a dead band and how Massive-2-Shits is the HM Capital of the world.

LMFBO.

Dude...

Yer not Digital Drug Lord are you?


SM.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Messiah

ok, this was the Yamaha desk in question...

(ignore me, pretty boring and unsociable as allencollins rightly pointed out. I've just realised how much weight I have put on since this pic too...fook..,)

At least we agree on Allen & Heath. Love those boards. You are a little cocky though carl. Jeez Id love to hear some of you stuff. Just to see if I can take you seriously

[TyW]

I can't tell from the picture, is that a M2500 maybe?

A&H and Midas are good options I didn't think of. I've used them both live and like both quite a bit.

Thanks,

Ty

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by slipperman

No. I don't own an SSL.

But I actually know something about them.

And with this HILARIOUS return post... you prove forever and beyond a doubt... You do not.

If your going to come on a gear related audio forum. You might want to know something about the forum theme.

I think you would be better off here: http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/

You can tell them about how Sigor Ros is a dead band and how Massive-2-Shits is the HM Capital of the world.

LMFBO.

Dude...

Yer not Digital Drug Lord are you?


SM.

No I'm not digital drug lord. Also I don't play metal. But I'm aware of all the trends so I know not to follow them like you. I know about theme here. I guess you don't. The metal post you were refering to was something I replied too not somthing I created.


I know plenty about ssl's since I used to work in a 48 track studio in Middleton MA.
I have also recorded and mixed at 10+ ssl houses in the north east. I have recorded 5 albums with many of my bands over the years on SSL's. So I know the deal. I do think it's you who have only glared at them in the pages of mix magazine.

remember "It's about 6500 knobs and switches... "

Now I know it took me years to learn it until now

# knobs and switches = great console.

cool I'll tell every guy who owns an 80 series Neve to dump it for an ssl since it has more knobs


cool!!!


Who cares

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by allencollins

No I'm not digital drug lord. Also I don't play metal. But I'm aware of all the trends so I know not to follow them like you. I know about theme here. I guess you don't. The metal post you were refering to was something I replied too not somthing I created.


I know plenty about ssl's since I used to work in a 48 track studio in Middleton MA.
I have also recorded and mixed at 10+ ssl houses in the north east. I have recorded 5 albums with many of my bands over the years on SSL's. So I know the deal. I do think it's you who have only glared at them in the pages of mix magazine.

remember "It's about 6500 knobs and switches... "

Now I know it took me years to learn it until now

# knobs and switches = great console.

cool I'll tell every guy who owns an 80 series Neve to dump it for an ssl since it has more knobs


cool!!!


Who cares

OK. You win.

I should have known better than to tangle with an experienced dude like you.

I stand corrected.

Now I know.

Thank you.

SM.

[drew]

gearslutz is going to hell..............sad. well, it was cool for about 3-4 years.

[OKden]

Yea Slippy... we got to get us one of them 256 module desks.

[Jose Mrochek]

Originally Posted by drew

gearslutz is going to hell..............sad. well, it was cool for about 3-4 years.

ooh come on.. it´s still cool : )

A guy that recorded 5 albums get´s personal with one who recorded a bit more : ) I love this place!

[Jose Mrochek]

I´m sure it´s above 3k .. probably way more, but how much is the new tonelux going for ??? It looks so sweet.

[nathanvacha]

Originally Posted by allencollins

No I'm not digital drug lord. Also I don't play metal. But I'm aware of all the trends so I know not to follow them like you. I know about theme here. I guess you don't. The metal post you were refering to was something I replied too not somthing I created.


I know plenty about ssl's since I used to work in a 48 track studio in Middleton MA.
I have also recorded and mixed at 10+ ssl houses in the north east. I have recorded 5 albums with many of my bands over the years on SSL's. So I know the deal. I do think it's you who have only glared at them in the pages of mix magazine.

remember "It's about 6500 knobs and switches... "

Now I know it took me years to learn it until now

# knobs and switches = great console.

cool I'll tell every guy who owns an 80 series Neve to dump it for an ssl since it has more knobs


cool!!!


Who cares

Blah, blah, blah... why does this keep happening in thread after thread? (Before you even bring it up: I AM that guy who has only seen the pictures in mix magazine. Never been near an ssl.) I am waaay more amateur than that and to me the other stuff mentioned is a mid-level desk. Not mid-sized mabe, but mid-level. Level referring to sound quality and features, not the gigantic, "i'm compensating for something" footprint...
Like i said, never worked on an ssl... but if it makes me as bitter and always complaining and talking down on everything and everyone on Gearslutz like you, then i would more than happily never touch one. If you make all these amazing hit records on humongous ssl's, that's cool. Go do it and stop being so combatant on a site where people want to peaceably discuss audio.

Oh, and i looked at the tonelux just for the hell of it and yeah, it's waaaay out of budget.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by nathanvacha

Blah, blah, blah... why does this keep happening in thread after thread? (Before you even bring it up: I AM that guy who has only seen the pictures in mix magazine. Never been near an ssl.) I am waaay more amateur than that and to me the other stuff mentioned is a mid-level desk. Not mid-sized mabe, but mid-level. Level referring to sound quality and features, not the gigantic, "i'm compensating for something" footprint...
Like i said, never worked on an ssl... but if it makes me as bitter and always complaining and talking down on everything and everyone on Gearslutz like you, then i would more than happily never touch one. If you make all these amazing hit records on humongous ssl's, that's cool. Go do it and stop being so combatant on a site where people want to peaceably discuss audio.

Oh, and i looked at the tonelux just for the hell of it and yeah, it's waaaay out of budget.

Actually it seems like alot of you are being combative. I merely suggested the guy look at buying an ssl and all these experts come out of the woodwork
bashing my opinion. That's cool.

Who's talking anything down???? ??? ????
not me. I'm just saying what's on my mind.

your another gear slut WHO CAN"T READ

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Jose Mrochek

ooh come on.. it´s still cool : )

A guy that recorded 5 albums get´s personal with one who recorded a bit more : ) I love this place!

But then again it is about quality not quantity now isn't it???

-Jose

[copperx]

No comment.

[Slipperman]

Originally Posted by OKden

Yea Slippy... we got to get us one of them 256 module desks.

As much as I prefer quantity over quality.... I'm just gonna settle for one of those SSL4128's. One 'module' for every tape output of my maxed out ADAT rig.

Heck.... I'm only running a Mid-level shop, but I'm looking to get into the "Bottom of the Top level".

But... No need to go crazy.

What with the current market... I should be able to pick one up in mint condition for about $40-50k.

Very common.

Ya see 'em all over the place.

Checking the Pennysaver right now.

SM.

[RCM - Ronan]

I love mixing on SSLs.

I love Metal!!!!

For $3000USD keep your eyes out for a used D&R console. The Series 4000 or Orion can be found in that range. They sound very good. They are clean and neutral, but that is a very good thing especially in your price range.

[oudplayer]

Originally Posted by rcm

I love mixing on SSLs.

I love Metal!!!!

For $3000USD keep your eyes out for a used D&R console. The Series 4000 or Orion can be found in that range. They sound very good. They are clean and neutral, but that is a very good thing especially in your price range.

I've seen a couple orions going for $1000 used in the Bay Area. Great deal!

If ya want a "fixer-upper" project, the Sound Workshop 30 and 34 series consoles have a ton of headroom. Finding parts is a pain in the a**, that's why one should "be careful" before buying.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by rcm

I love mixing on SSLs.

I love Metal!!!!

For $3000USD keep your eyes out for a used D&R console. The Series 4000 or Orion can be found in that range. They sound very good. They are clean and neutral, but that is a very good thing especially in your price range.

oooh D&R i forgot about those. Very nice unkept secret........... really sweet sound
and very affordable