Studio owners: How much do you pay engineers?

[Sput]

Hi there!
I've been doing all the engineering/producing at my studio until now. But I'm moving to a bigger place and the time has come to hire somebody.
I found this freelance guy who's done plenty of records and have some good reputation. He proposed me to bring his jobs (when people ask HIM --not me-- to produce/engineer a record) to my studio and make it his operational base.

Now, since we're gonna do this for projects, how much do you guys think I should keep out of the total price charged? Say 50%, more, less??
How much do you think it's fair??

I'm kind of lost here, so any help will be really apprecciated!!

Jordi.

[borau]

Not exactly answering your question,
When I ask someone to sub for me I pay them $300-$375 a day, depending on a few factors.
That is also what I ask when subing other places, or freelance.
Working at my own place, I bill way less than that. I'm the last one on the list of bills getting paid.

Might have NO relevance for your market, though.

[Sput]

Hi Borau! Thanks for the reply.
Just one question:
How much is the studio making a day when you pay (or ask for) $300-$375?
I mean, what percentage of the total charged to the client goes to the engineer?

For example, if the studio is charging the client $600, then it's about 50-60%. Do you know what I mean?

J.

[StefanColson]

In my experinece there is a rate for the room, and I charge my rate on top of that. So the room might be $35 an hour, and I'll bill $20 an hour on top of that, for example.

[HudHudson]

What? AE's get paid? What planet do you live on?

Depends on the AE. If he/she brings the client in, we give them a little piece of the room rate. If they're on hire only, they get $15-25/hr depending on skills/experience.

[cajonezzz]

You don't need to know what the outside AE/producers budget, just what your room rate is.
His cut is no business of the studio-

Just charge a fair room rate- or whatever works for the particular Engineer-client.

We are 60 an hour for the room. No assistant.

[Tibbon]

Probably less than anyone in any other field with that many years of experience and expertise.

Financial industry person... 3 years might get ~25-30/hr easily. 3 years experienced engineer, probably ~10/hr at best.

[AdAudioInc]

This is for post, but for an engineer that can run the room while I'm away, I pay $60/hr. - for an assistant it's $15 when they are new - up to $25 when they get good.

[Tousana]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

You don't need to know what the outside AE/producers budget, just what your room rate is.
His cut is no business of the studio-

Just charge a fair room rate- or whatever works for the particular Engineer-client.

We are 60 an hour for the room. No assistant.

Yes charge a fair room rate and let him get what he gets. You may work something out were he gets a cut of the whole total bill sort of a comission, to keep him coming back as well. If you are giving him work, you should pay a fair rate based on experience. Remember everthing can be worked out.

[Bounce]

I say use the ebay scale:

$4 per hour for the engineer and he/she gets $56 more per hour for handling.

[Sput]

Ok, so it looks like a third of the cake would be the right thing if the client is mine, and 50 % if the client is his.

Do you guys think that's fair? I don't want to be unfair to a good engineer, but I also need some money coming in...

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by Sput

Ok, so it looks like a third of the cake would be the right thing if the client is mine, and 50 % if the client is his.

Do you guys think that's fair? I don't want to be unfair to a good engineer, but I also need some money coming in...

Again, this implies that you know how much the "cake " is.

I don't tell the studio that. They have a rate, I pay it- or negotiate a lower one.
The studio has NO BUSINESS knowing what I'm charging MY client.

As far as it being your client- if you need to make "your room rate" and there is only 15 bucks left over for the AE, then the AE will need to make a decision on whether or not they take the gig. Pretty simple.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by cajonezzz

Again, this implies that you know how much the "cake " is.

I don't tell the studio that. They have a rate, I pay it- or negotiate a lower one.
The studio has NO BUSINESS knowing what I'm charging MY client.

As far as it being your client- if you need to make "your room rate" and there is only 15 bucks left over for the AE, then the AE will need to make a decision on whether or not they take the gig. Pretty simple.

Agreed. If the engineer is going to be bringing in his own clients, let HIM worry about getting paid. Come up with an hourly rate (or 8 hour block rate) for your studio and stick to it.

[Sput]

Yeah, you're probably right guys.
Even though I really think this one guy would feel way more confortable by sharing a percentage.
I think I'll let him decide what suit him best.
Thanks everybody for your advice!!

Jordi.

[superburtm]

I pay 10-12 and hr. for guys to run the ship when I'm too fricking busy to do it all myself.

[cajonezzz]

Originally Posted by rufus13

WOW. I'm speechless.

How can someone, even a single/couchsurfing/car-living person, survive in LA on under $20K a year (or less, given that this is part-time/temp)?



kk in pdx

Your obviously not a musician, or a producer engineer wanna be cause if you were, you'd know the answer:






Girlfriends buddy ! Girlfriends!

[giles117]

Anywhere from 15 to 25/ hour based on experience

[TyW]

If you really want a good guy in your studio do some research and find out what your particularly market pays for a person of that caliber and see if you can stomach that expense.

In Houston we're very lucky/unlucky depending on how you look at it. I can't throw a rock in Houston and not hit a talented engineer. My backup guy is ten times better than me at engineering, has a grammy nomination, and I pay him $40 per hour when I need him because that's all this market will bear. When he has lived in other markets he has charged more, but cost of living is much lower in Houston than it is in New York, LA, etc.

Once again, my two cents and I'm overcharging at that.

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by rufus13

WOW. I'm speechless.

How can someone, even a single/couchsurfing/car-living person, survive in LA on under $20K a year (or less, given that this is part-time/temp)?

On the other side, how can you legitimately invent a position for someone to be chronically underpaid (sub-poverty), but be trusted with your entire kit/livelyhood?

I understand that the industry is upside-down with people wanting in, pay-to-play and all that, but relying on the moral integrity of your helpers, while watching them get thinner and thinner seems like a recipe for disaster.

As I understand Los Angeles, a 1-bedroom older apartment in a not-so-desirable neighborhood can be $1200 a month, $1500 with utilities. This hard law of economics means that the minimum nut to meet every month is about $3000 take home, or about $3600 as an employee or $4500 as a 1099 private contractor paying own taxes.

You have to make 2x what you pay in rent at a minimum or you are dying on your feet/going into debt. 30% of pay for housing is a target.

In a place with $300 low-middle apartments, making $1500 a month is almost acceptable.

Basically, the market is so flooded with talent and people (with money from family?), that they are willing to work a whole day for lunch and gas money. Add cheap gear, and the competition gets very tough.

Rant mode: off.

kk in pdx

Hey man 12bux an hr is almost twice min. wage that's not a bad gig for a young kid..

I don't hold a gun to their head or anything. That's what I can afford to pay.

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by rufus13

WOW. I'm speechless.

How can someone, even a single/couchsurfing/car-living person, survive in LA on under $20K a year (or less, given that this is part-time/temp)?

On the other side, how can you legitimately invent a position for someone to be chronically underpaid (sub-poverty), but be trusted with your entire kit/livelyhood?

I understand that the industry is upside-down with people wanting in, pay-to-play and all that, but relying on the moral integrity of your helpers, while watching them get thinner and thinner seems like a recipe for disaster.

As I understand Los Angeles, a 1-bedroom older apartment in a not-so-desirable neighborhood can be $1200 a month, $1500 with utilities. This hard law of economics means that the minimum nut to meet every month is about $3000 take home, or about $3600 as an employee or $4500 as a 1099 private contractor paying own taxes.

You have to make 2x what you pay in rent at a minimum or you are dying on your feet/going into debt. 30% of pay for housing is a target.

In a place with $300 low-middle apartments, making $1500 a month is almost acceptable.

Basically, the market is so flooded with talent and people (with money from family?), that they are willing to work a whole day for lunch and gas money. Add cheap gear, and the competition gets very tough.

Rant mode: off.

kk in pdx

You can find places to live for half of what you are saying btw..I own my home and it's only $1500.00 a month.

[Dopamine]

<<As I understand Los Angeles, a 1-bedroom older apartment in a not-so-desirable neighborhood can be $1200 a month, $1500 with utilities.>>


Where the heck did you get that info? Completely off base. Everyone in LA isn't rich. BTW, you can probably get a 1BR in Beverly Hills for $1500 a month!

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Probably less than anyone in any other field with that many years of experience and expertise.

Financial industry person... 3 years might get ~25-30/hr easily. 3 years experienced engineer, probably ~10/hr at best.

$10/hr for an engineer with 3 years experience??? What kind of experience are you talking about? Flunking out of FullSail 3 times?

[seaneldon]

as far as LA rent, i've found quite a lot of rooms (more than i can count on my fingers and toes) in 2-3br apartments/houses off of Sunset where I'd pay $350 a month utilities included. people have an extra room with nothing in it and they need the extra dough for the rent, so they ***** it out to a new yorker. easy as cake to find these places.

[octatonic]

As an engineer I charge for 500chf a day- this works out to be $410 USD per day.
I don't work for less.

JR

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by FossilTooth

$10/hr for an engineer with 3 years experience??? What kind of experience are you talking about? Flunking out of FullSail 3 times?

No. There's plenty of people in the Boston area anyway, that have started up small/mid level studios. They charge around 40/hr for the studio (down to around 20/hr), which includes all staff and the studio time. I figure from this, they are lucky if they get paid 10/hr. Most of the rest is probably going to studio expenses.

Then again, a ton of them are Berklee, or other art school students who have their parents floating them to a large degree.

[superburtm]

I just hired a kid out of recording school for $8/hr and he's happy to have it. It's above min. wage.

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Then again, a ton of them are Berklee, or other art school students who have their parents floating them to a large degree.

Other art school? As a Berklee grad, and someone who's read their most recent mission statement, I can say it's a great school, but there's certainly no art taught there. I saw sad and angry when I read their mission statment that made it clear they don't think it art terms at all.

Sorry to digress.

[Jules]

£200 per day

Jumps up to $300 if we can bill for the studio at a higher rate...

Major lable minimum = $400 (paid direct from record co...)

Actually thats all been calculated at the $2 GB Pound.. so lower all those a little...

[echo unit]

As a freelancer, I do not charge an hourly rate. I charge by the song.

To record/edit/mix one song I charge $1500

To just mix I charge $1000 per song

To record I charge $500-$1000 depending on how involved the trakcing is.

If the group wants to do an album it's $10,000 flat rate. Albums usually take me a month to complete.

I do bands and I don't use any sequencing because it's not my thing. I use midiclocking and contoller change info for locking in tremelo/gating effects and other modulation effects.

I don't allow substances in the studio and I ask them to keep the foul language to a minimum as it bothers me. I worked for Prince once and he charged his employees $5 for every bad word they said that he or his personal assistant heard. I have the same policy and I find that it helps the band to clean out the cobwebs from thier souls.

I usually have a freelance assistant that I pay $200 per song. I don't use an assistnat for mixing. I don't hire female assistants as i find that the band ususally gets distracted by this. I ended up having to clean up the aftermath of a band dinner break/lead singer secret encounter with the assistant in the vocal booth senario.

I like to spend about four days on a song. One for the instruments, one for vocals and one or two for mixing. On album projects it's shorter to mix once you get the first three tracks established. I usually start mixing the stronger material first to establish the sound of the rest. I may go back and tweak the first ones after a bit.

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by superburtm

I just hired a kid out of recording school for $8/hr and he's happy to have it. It's above min. wage.

Just out of school, I can understand the $8/hr, but let's face it, if recording school is his only background, I wouldn't call him experienced yet.

He'll probably be asking you for $15 within the next year (or leaving). If not, it's probably cause he's no good!

People will work for too long making subhuman wages as assistants at places like Quad, Right Track and the like, but other than that, good luck keeping cheapies around for long these days...... Or being happy with them if they stay cheap.

As a side note, what percentage of interns and assistants do you think actually go on to maintain a full time career in AE?

-Justin

PS- I'm 24 and I charge $25/hr for my services. I often negotiate a day rate between $200-$300. I think that's crazy cheap. Eventually I'll charge more.