Digi 192 vs. Apogee AD-8k

[DigiDutch]

I did a face off last week between the AD-8K and the 192. Both @ 48k, 24 bit.
Am curious to find out if anybody has done this and what their conclusion is. I'll post mine when I get some responses.

Dig.

[Jules]

I belive there to be 2 ways of doing a 41/48k Apogee - 192 shoot out..

1) Apogees clocked by themselves on a Mix + rig

2) Apogees forced to be work with the 192's own specially designed internal system via the 192 'legacy port'

I would find test #1to be the more 'valid'. I have heard rumour that the clocking via the 192's legacy port may be a kludge of sorts leading to substanard jitter spec's for the Apogee unit attached and that you might be better off just using the 192 all the way instead of insisting on clinging to your Apogee..

I dunno I have an Apogee AD8k myself but I aint done no shoot outs...

I am just passing on what I have gleaned from on line gossip.

long live shoot outs and the people that report on the net about the results!!!!!

Please visit here http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...c&f=2&t=005891 for a detailed discussion on the 192's clocking.

[DigiDutch]

I had the AD-8K hooked up to HD thru the Legacy port, but usings it's internal crystal. And the 192 using it's internal clock at the same time, without any problems. Wait a minute, now that I'm writing this I'm thinking this can't be right. I'll go back in the studio first thing tomorrow and check it out.

[Notable]

I will try a comparison in few weeks. I will have both in the same rig. The Ad8000's are the SE version and they are clocked by an Aardvark , along with all other digital gear in the studio. I'm also curious about connecting the apogees into the 192 via adat or tdif. This connection might clock differently than the legacy port and it also does sample rate conversion any rate the 192 is using. I'm particularly interested in 88.2.
peace
Dan

[RKrizman]

I have both in my rig. I prefer the outputs of the 192 for monitoring--more transparent. When I was checking out a Dangerous 2-bus I preferred the outputs of the 192. The D/A on the Apogee seemed more colored, and not necessarily in a good way. As far as the A/D's go, I think the Apogee is a little chunker sounding, not quite as smooth as the 192, but maybe with a little more bulk or character. It's an original, not an SE. I clock it from the 192. But the difference I hear I think is due to the analog electronics.

What did you find?

-R

[jumpnyc]

I find the Apogee to be a little more thicker in the mid-range - while the 192 is more clear. There is a definite "sound" to both the apogee and the 192 A/D. I prefer the 192's clarity as I believe it offers more options in the mix. But, after audtitioning several A/D's I opted to move to Lavry on the front end.

The D/A's on the 192 are very good. I now do A/D with a Lavry Gold MK III and D/A with the 192 when I am steming 16 channels to my dangerous 2-bus and D/A with my Cranesong Avocet for monitoring.

[jbuntz]

Originally Posted by jumpnyc

I find the Apogee to be a little more thicker in the mid-range - while the 192 is more clear. There is a definite "sound" to both the apogee and the 192 A/D. I prefer the 192's clarity as I believe it offers more options in the mix. But, after audtitioning several A/D's I opted to move to Lavry on the front end.

The D/A's on the 192 are very good. I now do A/D with a Lavry Gold MK III and D/A with the 192 when I am steming 16 channels to my dangerous 2-bus and D/A with my Cranesong Avocet for monitoring.

Wow. Must be nice.

[StudioLogic]

When the Pro Tools HD systems first came out I had a ton of clients wanting to know the sound differences of the Apogee AD8000 and the 192 interface.

I set up a big comparison with the Apogee AD8000 (not SE), the 192, Genex and the Prism ADA8.

We recorded a grand piano, acoustic guitar and female vocals at 44.1 and at 96 and 192.

After all the recordings we had everyone sit at the back of the control room and had the engineer play the different recordings. We were suppose to write down what we heard on every recording not knowing what converter we were listening to.

The end result was that at 44.1 the 192 was so close to the other converters it was not worth the extra money to buy them but when we got to the higher sampling rates there was a big difference.

So I would say if you are going to be recording at 44.1/48 with an Apogee AD8000 it will sound just as good as recording on a pro tools HD system through a 192 at the same sampling rate.

But you should listen for yourself and see what you think.

George

[JulianBrightnes]

do you still have some of those recordings? could you go a bit deeper into the results you got? (which sounded 'the best' to most people)

Thanks man!

Cheers, Julian

[StudioLogic]

That was almost 4 years ago and the client wanted to keep the recordings.

Sorry.

[jumpnyc]

Originally Posted by jbuntz

Wow. Must be nice.

I think the "nicest" gear is my new floating control room/live room/studio with external machine room. Without a nice room - quality is tough to determine.

I was just thinking - though this is off-topic - All the gear listed is less than the cost of a Studer 24tk when it was popular - so I am not as slutty as the old timers thumbsup

[JulianBrightnes]

Originally Posted by StudioLogic

That was almost 4 years ago and the client wanted to keep the recordings.

Sorry.

Thanks anyway thumbsup

Cheers, Julian

[DR.The Jinx]

I have the Apogee AD and DA 16's and I did shoot them out against the 192's and they rock. Better stereo image, better top end, the sound seems a little more in yo face, and you also have the soft limit on the Ad end. bit pricy to do it but well worth the money.

[raal]

Originally Posted by DR.The Jinx

I have the Apogee AD and DA 16's and I did shoot them out against the 192's and they rock. Better stereo image, better top end, the sound seems a little more in yo face, and you also have the soft limit on the Ad end. bit pricy to do it but well worth the money.

finally! been looking for this type of post for awhile. thanks.

[Dirty Halo]

But what is the reality, I've heard just as many people say the 192 sounds just as goood. What if a 192 is clocked to something as good as the Ardsync II?

Anyone hear that difference? Opinion? How is the SOUND, not Apogee versus Digi hype.

Dirty Halo

[Full Clip Audio]

They are both really nice converters and you really cant go wrong with either. I would say that they sound a bit different and to some people that might mean better but to others it might not. I personally like the option of slightly different sounding converters. thumbsup

[brendanevjen]

It seems pretty lame that Digi is charging thousands for their 192 interfaces when EMU is using the same converters in their soundcards that sell for a couple hundred bucks. Yeah I know all the arguments about the importance of clocking, etc. but I've owned a 192 I/O (and subsequently sold it) - I was not that impressed with the quality of the conversion; certainly not at the prices Digi is asking.

[Ruudman]

Not exactely true.

Converters may share the same brand of chips, but i.e the quality of analog circuitry
makes a whole lot of difference.

ruudman

[Rab]

Originally Posted by brendanevjen

It seems pretty lame that Digi is charging thousands for their 192 interfaces when EMU is using the same converters in their soundcards that sell for a couple hundred bucks. Yeah I know all the arguments about the importance of clocking, etc. but I've owned a 192 I/O (and subsequently sold it) - I was not that impressed with the quality of the conversion; certainly not at the prices Digi is asking.

I thought this argument had been put to bed a looooooooooooooooong time ago. The converter stage crunches the numbers but is only one step in the chain. The clock source (and associated jitter) is of paramount importance. The quality and stability of the PSU/transformer also matter. Crack open an Apogee or Digi 192 and see how these things are physically designed - they kind of speak for themselves.

I also think it's unfair to compare AD16X's and 192's - a couple of years is a long time in digital technology. Apogee say the AD16 is their best converter to date - it's more recent so I'd be surprised if it wasn't better. I'd say the 192I/O is better than the AD8000 (and half the price at the time) - improved high end clarity, stereo imaging and more defined bottom end - but it's marginal.

Once converters get to this level, it's all good - I've sat through a lot of these shootouts and things are at the stage where the difference is pretty much subjective.

If truth be told, I'd rather blow the extra $$$ on a decent mix buss processor where I can hear a genuine difference for my money.

[brendanevjen]

Didn't mean to offend anyone. Having worked in pro audio sales for some years I got to see the way Digi operates their company and how they have cut costs and overpriced their gear for a long time. I'm the first to admit opinions are like assholes- everybody's got one. Having said that, I'd like to share my opinion which is that the 192 I/O and other Digi interfaces are overpriced and underpowered. Apogee, dCS, Prism, Lavry, Mytek and others offer better converters with better clocking, better analog stages, greater dynamic range, and greater resale value than the Digi stuff. Sorry.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by brendanevjen

Apogee, dCS, Prism, Lavry, Mytek and others offer better converters with better clocking, better analog stages, greater dynamic range, and greater resale value than the Digi stuff. Sorry.

Woa there! All of that may be true but there is a HUGE jump in price between a 192 and something like the Prism stuff. I would hope that for 3 times the price they would be better.

[brendanevjen]

Actually every one of those companies, including Prism- but perhaps excluding dCS, have offerings which outperform the Digi stuff for a comparable cost. But go ahead and continue to argue it out bro.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by brendanevjen

Actually every one of those companies, including Prism- but perhaps excluding dCS, have offerings which outperform the Digi stuff for a comparable cost. But go ahead and continue to argue it out bro.

Well please link us to a Prism product that has similar specs for a comperable price. I'm not saying that it doesnt exist. I just havent seen it.

[brendanevjen]

I'm sure a smart guy like you could make his way over to Prism's website to take a look at their various product offerings. Their ADA-8 units which have now been replaced with their Pro Tools HD compatible ADA-8XR units, have been available at a steep promotional discount for quite some time now. Having used both the ADA-8's as well as the Digi 192, I can flat out guarantee you the Prism stuff sounds noticably better. Perhaps you could go listen for yourself, and then pick up the argument again when you have some experience to back up your grumbling.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by brendanevjen

I'm sure a smart guy like you could make his way over to Prism's website to take a look at their various product offerings. Their ADA-8 units which have now been replaced with their Pro Tools HD compatible ADA-8XR units, have been available at a steep promotional discount for quite some time now. Having used both the ADA-8's as well as the Digi 192, I can flat out guarantee you the Prism stuff sounds noticably better. Perhaps you could go listen for yourself, and then pick up the argument again when you have some experience to back up your grumbling.

Actually I asked you to post a link because the only prices for Prism stuff I can find is on Mercenary where the price for the ADA-8 happens to be just uinder 12 grand. I'm sure a smart guy like yourself could have figured that out from my post if he werent so busy trying to be a condescending cock. thumbsup

[brendanevjen]

Anyone who has shopped around for more than a few minutes knows Mercenary loves to overcharge for their gear under the convenient umbrella explanation of "better customer service" - Perhaps you could check out some other retailers like Calistro Music, who actually charge reasonable prices. As for sucking your cock- sorry man, not interested- I choke on small bones.

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by brendanevjen

Anyone who has shopped around for more than a few minutes knows Mercenary loves to overcharge for their gear under the convenient umbrella explanation of "better customer service" - Perhaps you could check out some other retailers like Calistro Music, who actually charge reasonable prices. As for sucking your cock- sorry man, not interested- I choke on small bones.

a: There is no listing for ANY Prism gear on thier site.

b: There are again no prices (hence me asking you to post a link and some additional info )

c: Your reading comprehension is lacking if you took my earlier post as an invitation.

Keep it up! You're on a roll fuuck

[brendanevjen]

Actually there is nothing lacking in my reading comprehension; you edited your post from "cocksucker" to "cock" right after posting it- maybe cause you realized what a stupid ****ing comment that was.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by brendanevjen

As for sucking your cock- sorry man, not interested- I choke on small bones.

Classic!!! thumbsup

[Dirty Halo]

Right, ok then... So anyway,

Any opinons about how the 192 sounds and stands up when clocked by something really solid like an Ardsync II?

While the new Apogee DA/AD 16 is their best to date, with a well clocked 192, how does it compare, please, as professionally as we can be in such a subjective matter.

Peace,

DIRTY HALO