Laid back Pre Shootout

[pigpen]

Ok so I have seen a million of these on here, but what the hell. Me and fellow slut, Matt Smith, did an impromptu shoot out last night since he just got his Pacifica in.

tutt (This is about as unscientific as it can get....so please no words of wisdom on how it should have been done. This was for fun and knowledge.)

The Skinny:
The Pres- Pacifica, API 3124, Neve 1272, Pendulum MDP1, DW Fearn

Scenario 1:
Matt laid waste to a 30 second clip of Enter Sandman ...playing my Les Paul through my Rectifier mic'd with a basic 57. We tracked it twice through each pre so we could hear it in stereo.

Pacifica- Initially could not tell a difference between it and the API. After more critical listening and wondering if we were both just deaf, we could hear a little more sizzle form the Pacifica and more low/low mids from the API. It is so minute though that either would be great for this application, but if forced to choose, the API would win it.
Neve- I just had my 72's reracked and recapped....sounded wicked better than expected. Would still choose the API.
Pendulum- Destructo guitars are not its forte'.
Fearn-Ditto

Scenario 2- Matt played the end of Patience on a Martin acoustic. (We only tried a few here.) A U195 was aimed at the 12th fret.

Pacifica- Sounded nice and full.
API- A little too much low end
Pendulum- Ahhhh, how sweet this thing sounds here. Now we hear what all the fuss is about.
Neve- Very sweet sound, this was my favorite here, I think Matt dug the Pacifica best
Fearn- Again a bit too dark and boomy

Scenario 3- Matt then sang over the aforementioned 20 sec jaunt of Patience. A good choice really, because A) Matt can sing his ass off and B) We did the end so there are some serious highs, lows, and dynamics there. Again we used the 195 for simplicity's sake.

Pacifica- This is why we both bought this unit. I wish I could say I loved it, but I didn't. I wanted so badly to have the same experience as Lugo but on Matt's voice is was just too sibilant. Maybe on another singer ti would be cool.
API-Surprisingly very good. This is not my usual vocal pre, now I am not even sure why. Again it and the Pacifica are very similar, but the API was less essy and more on the bottm end adding some beef.
Neve- This was the clear cut winner for Matt's voice. We both listened and just went, "Now that is what is is supposed to sound like". For him, a perfect fit.
Pendulum- Sounded great on him, probably my second favorite. I think Matt would rank it 3rd behind the API.
Fearn- I was hugely surprised because this usually my go to for vocals, but for him it was good, just not great like the 72.


So there you have it. About as unscientific as it can possibly be. I can't wait to hear the Pacifica on some other singers vocals though. I want it to rawk!

Again please no flames or wars....the fact of the matter for both Matt and I at the end of the night was this...Once you get to a certain level (which all of these are), they all sound amazing. Neither of us would have kicked any of them outta bed on any of the applications.
When you have the optoins, you just make choices and each of us would probably make a different one...and that is why making records is so great, not one of us would do it the same way.
God bless music

[severe]

Thanks a lot, pigpen.

It's nice to get some more reviews on new gear.

[Infernal Device]

post the clips for us?

[tomwehrle]

yeah i'd like to hear the differences if possible

[James Lugo]

Thanks pigpen.

That's wierd about the sibilance on the vocal. That thing is so creamy in my room. Maybe the U195 didn't help matters, it's a cool mic but can be bright. I've been using the Pacifica with my Pearlman with the hi cut on or my E49, neither of which is as bright as a U195.

mp3's?

Thanks again.

[Matt Smith]

Yeah, it was fun. The Neve was definitely king in this case. Just sounded "right", like Daniel said. Something about the midrange just sits my voice exactly where it needs to sit, and that's a conclusion I've come to over time and after trying loads of different pieces, tube and solid state, expensive and cheap. The API was nice, too--that was the first time I've ever sung through one. Similar to the Pacifica, but had more balls in this case. Neve and API--boy, there's a cliche' for ya, huh? But then I guess there's a reason why things become standards.

It's SO voice- and style-dependent, though. All of those units were nice, and I'm 100% certain that they'd all win out at some point for different singers and different styles (which is why it's pointless to read stuff like this on the internet).


Matt

[Fearless1]

Thanks for the review. I think what you did was a real world shoot out, because you obviously have no biased affiliation with companies or gear pimps and that's more of a home or project studio environment vs. a "lab" environment. In my room, the high-end pres are so close and when I read other opinions about the stuff I own, I often wonder what they are talking about. The differences are so subtle for pres that cost $1,600 or more and I agree, it really depends on the music and style.
Even some low end pres are quite astonishing - my go to set up to mic my Rectifier for dirty guitar is my Royer R-121 into my $399 Groove Tubes The Brick!
It sounds better than using my $3,200 dbx 786.
If I had to choose just one pre, I would be very happy with my API 3124+.
Also, to me, my Mackie 800R is just as good as my ISA 428 and ISA 220.
My UA pres are not as bad as what gets bashed on this board either.
Thanks again for posting your shootout.

[pigpen]

Lugo, you are probably right...this shooout was really done with Matt's vocals in mind and that is his mic (not my favorite by any stretch actually)....I want to give it a go with my Peluso47LE or 251 and see what happens.

As far as clips, really kind of useless. It was SOOOOOOO all over the place volume wise, performance wise....it was after 1am......

Not to mention I have read too posts here where people say things are unfair, this ones louder than that one, different performance, yada yada....We didn't do this with posting clips in mind, just for shits and giggles.
I just thought you slutz might want to hear what a few other sluts heard.

Maybe when I get my Shadow Hills Deluxe in, Matt and I can do a more proper shootout with posting clips in mind from the get go.....I can't wait to throw those in the mix!!!!!

Thanks for the all the replies, here I was thinking noone would care.

[Kalite Marka]

Were you guys drinking/drugs during (most importantly before) the shootout?

[pigpen]

First off the answer is No

Secondly....why would you ask that?

[conagher]

I'm a bit surprised that the fearn pre didn't fare so well. I used one for the first time last week tracking piano and vocals, and thought it was fantastic on both. It actually made me a little angry at my other pre's for awhile.
BTW, My first post here. Hi everybody!

[severe]

Originally Posted by conagher

BTW, My first post here. Hi everybody!

Welcome to Gearslutz, conagher.

[pigpen]

Originally Posted by conagher

I'm a bit surprised that the fearn pre didn't fare so well. I used one for the first time last week tracking piano and vocals, and thought it was fantastic on both. It actually made me a little angry at my other pre's for awhile.
BTW, My first post here. Hi everybody!

Me too, as it has been my go to for over a year now, but like we said before, it is totally talent dependent.
BTW, I need some moolah so I will be selling my Fearn so I can keep the Pendulum if anyone is interested. (I will get another one, hopefully a VT2, later.)
Thanks
daniel

[Marjan]

Pigpen, great to hear about your shootout.
From my experience though, it seems that what I hear/prefer is different from what others hear/prefer, so it's hard for me to put myself in perspective since I don't know you guys as listeners.
I wouldn't mind listening to your clips, whatever the volume differences or any other stuff.
What matters to me the most is the character of a preamp, and you ( I) can hear it as long as there's a decent amount of volume.
But that's up to you...
Thanks.

[David@MVS]

Originally Posted by Fearless1

my go to set up to mic my Rectifier for dirty guitar is my Royer R-121 into my $399 Groove Tubes The Brick!
It sounds better than using my $3,200 dbx 786.
If I had to choose just one pre, I would be very happy with my API 3124+.
Also, to me, my Mackie 800R is just as good as my ISA 428 and ISA 220.
My UA pres are not as bad as what gets bashed on this board either.
Thanks again for posting your shootout.

Well I think the Brick is actually a high quality pre. It is just packaged without bells and whistles and in a less expensive form factor. But by cost per channel it is not much below the API (~$600/channel). That guitar chain sounds like it would be great.

Ty Ford on R.A.P. is a real proponent of "It's the interaction between the mic AND pre that makes (or breaks) the sound."
I agree...and it was what pushed me over to get the ISA428a back when. That unit has shown me so much...especially with my R121. I even made a chart of some of the pieces of my gear with I/O impedances and levels.
I use this to attach (some) reason for the findings behind my experimentation.

But pres are so component-rich that signal interaction becomes very complex (internally and with the signal chain).

This leads me to my next point...when you compared your Onyx to the 428a.
For many pieces of high end gear, their real "metal" shows when pushed hard.
For the 428a it is it's _crazy_ gain and great headroom. It stays clean when hit hard. The Onyx may do this too (dunno) but here is where I have found the differnces between good pres and great pres are audible.

The API...wow does this thing have ridiculous headroom. And it has a totally different character when pushed hard (transformer saturation?). I modified the Shure mic attunuators for use at the output of my 3124mb so I can hit the front-end hard. Turns it into another preamp all together. (Only then would it distinguish itself from the Spider on drums...[no DSP FX on, in my room with my collection of mics])

And I agree, I think the UA pre is very good...and flexible too.

These pre comparisons are great....good way to study the complex interactions between our gear and the source material.

Regards,
David

[wilkinswp]

Good info Daniel and Matt. I guess that Vipre didn't make the shootout.