Seriously.. I'm facing A/D Tracking MYSTERIES. All u experts.. Ur help's NEEDED.

[Mitch Lowen]

I'm finally starting to track sounds and then mixing itb.

Problem is that I'll have to take out the main outs of the mixer that go into the amplifier to put them into the soundcard with the problem that I won't be able to hear what I'm tracking (since there's no connection to the amp, to which the monitors are connected).

So I saw my old Tascam DA30MKII DAT machine and thought:

What if I..

Connect the XLR outs of the mixer into the XLR ins of the DAT
Connect the RCA outs to the Jack ins of the AMP
Connect the S/PDIF out to the S/PDIF in of the card

That way I could listen to the music AND track digitally from the mixer into the DAT and then into the card ) All I had to do is always have the DAT on record.

I DID THIS LAST NIGHT!!!!


Well I tried it last night. There's a problem (duh).

I use a Pentium III 667 Mhz PC with Logic Audio Gold 4.1.1.

TRACKING DIGITALLY -> DAT S/PDIF OUT in S/PDIF CARD IN:

1) when tracking the message 'Error - Conflict trying to sync Midi and Audio. Problem with 48000. Check external device'

2) when playing back when Logic's still on digital it plays it accurate up until the last part of what I tracked.. then it kind of gets out of rhythm

TRACKING ANALOG -> XLR MIXER OUT in RCA CARD IN

3) playback is 100% accurate

PLAYBACK

4) when playing what was digitally tracked when Logic's on Analog the playback's 30% slower!!!!!!!!!!! (??)

5) when playing what was analog tracked when Logic's on Digital the playback's 30% faster!!!!!!!!!!

Note: the DAT recorder was on F/S 48.
Note: the reason why I don't want to track from mixer -> card is that my mixer only has 2 outs. The main XLR outs. If I have to take them out of the amplifier, I can't hear what I'm tracking or what I tracked until I plugged 'em back in.
QUESTIONS:

1) How come the playback speed of what I digitally tracked is 30% slower when Logic's set on analog input. That don't make NO sense.

2) Same for the playback of what was tracked Analog while the PC's set on digital input.

3) It seems that tracking through the DAT recorder at the same level as from mixer to card directly makes things a bit louder and fuller. Could this be because of the headroom of the DAT recorder?

4) Another option is:

XLR MIXER OUT -> DAT XLR IN
DAT RCA OUT -> HEADPHONE PRE-AMP MAIN RCA IN
HEADPHONE PRE-AMP RCA STEREO OUT 1 -> RCA IN SOUNDCARD
HEADPHONE PRE-AMP RCA STEREO OUT 2 -> RCA AMP IN

Would that hurt the soundquality!?

5) The F/S button for 44.1 or 48 -> is that for the OUT or the IN of the DAT?

[Mitch Lowen]

Originally Posted by Mitch Lowen

I'm finally starting to track sounds and then mixing itb.

Problem is that I'll have to take out the main outs of the mixer that go into the amplifier to put them into the soundcard with the problem that I won't be able to hear what I'm tracking (since there's no connection to the amp, to which the monitors are connected).

So I saw my old Tascam DA30MKII DAT machine and thought:

What if I..

Connect the XLR outs of the mixer into the XLR ins of the DAT
Connect the RCA outs to the Jack ins of the AMP
Connect the S/PDIF out to the S/PDIF in of the card

That way I could listen to the music AND track digitally from the mixer into the DAT and then into the card ) All I had to do is always have the DAT on record.

I DID THIS LAST NIGHT!!!!


Well I tried it last night. There's a problem (duh).

I use a Pentium III 667 Mhz PC with Logic Audio Gold 4.1.1.

TRACKING DIGITALLY -> DAT S/PDIF OUT in S/PDIF CARD IN:

1) when tracking the message 'Error - Conflict trying to sync Midi and Audio. Problem with 48000. Check external device'

2) when playing back when Logic's still on digital it plays it accurate up until the last part of what I tracked.. then it kind of gets out of rhythm

TRACKING ANALOG -> XLR MIXER OUT in RCA CARD IN

3) playback is 100% accurate

PLAYBACK

4) when playing what was digitally tracked when Logic's on Analog the playback's 30% slower!!!!!!!!!!! (??)

5) when playing what was analog tracked when Logic's on Digital the playback's 30% faster!!!!!!!!!!

Note: the DAT recorder was on F/S 48.
Note: the reason why I don't want to track from mixer -> card is that my mixer only has 2 outs. The main XLR outs. If I have to take them out of the amplifier, I can't hear what I'm tracking or what I tracked until I plugged 'em back in.
QUESTIONS:

1) How come the playback speed of what I digitally tracked is 30% slower when Logic's set on analog input. That don't make NO sense.

2) Same for the playback of what was tracked Analog while the PC's set on digital input.

3) It seems that tracking through the DAT recorder at the same level as from mixer to card directly makes things a bit louder and fuller. Could this be because of the headroom of the DAT recorder?

4) Another option is:

XLR MIXER OUT -> DAT XLR IN
DAT RCA OUT -> HEADPHONE PRE-AMP MAIN RCA IN
HEADPHONE PRE-AMP RCA STEREO OUT 1 -> RCA IN SOUNDCARD
HEADPHONE PRE-AMP RCA STEREO OUT 2 -> RCA AMP IN

Would that hurt the soundquality!?

5) The F/S button for 44.1 or 48 -> is that for the OUT or the IN of the DAT?

Naturally it's HEADPHONE JACKS. And 'RCA AMP IN' is JACK AMP IN. Ofcourse.

[max cooper]

I've read through this a couple of times. Maybe you could clarify some of the issues and what you're doing.

[hourglass]

Originally Posted by Mitch Lowen

I'm finally starting to track sounds and then mixing itb.

Problem is that I'll have to take out the main outs of the mixer that go into the amplifier to put them into the soundcard with the problem that I won't be able to hear what I'm tracking (since there's no connection to the amp, to which the monitors are connected).

I'm not going to read the rest - because your problem is right here.

Don't run the main outs of your mixer to the soundcard.

Either:

Use a direct out for each channel you are recording.
Use post-fader aux sends to record a stereo mix of what your mixer is seeing
Tap the insert for each channel you are recording (will be pre-eq, pre-fader...)
Use a Sub or Group output to your soundcard and route the channels you are recording to the sub group.

This way you can return the recorded music FROM your soundcard TO the 2-track return on your mixer and you'll be able to overdub without re-recording your first pass.

It would probably help if you mentioned what kind of mixer you are using.

ryan

[Rodney Gene]

Hey Mitch I answered this for you on another forum..

You are recording at 44.1 and playing back at 48k.

As you asked in the other forum...Sample Rate = Speed. That is why you are having variable speed issues.
Your DAT player is acting as Master when you are playing back via the Digital I/O...it is simply passing audio when using the Analog I/O.
It proabably sounds better through the Analog I/O because you like the sound of the DAT's converters better than your soundcard..

Cheers...

[7161]

dude, I cant really figure out what you're trying to do, but if it's to do with inability to monitor and playback without repatching...

why doncha setup some INPUT MONITOR OBJECTS in the Logic mixer environment?

then you can monitor thru Logic (and even add fx)

[severe]

Originally Posted by 7161

dude, I cant really figure out what you're trying to do, but if it's to do with inability to monitor and playback without repatching...

why doncha setup some INPUT MONITOR OBJECTS in the Logic mixer environment?

then you can monitor thru Logic (and even add fx)

I'm not knocking your post or advice....but WTF is an "INPUT MONITOR OBJECT"?

Sounds so...i dont know. I've never used Logic.


Carry on.