BLack Lion mod for MOTU

[baikonour]

I've done some search, but the people who had their motu modded were waiting for their unit to come back... Any news? any improvement?
It will be nice to know...I'm based in the uk so the costs would be around £180 to have my 828 MKII modded..Is it worth it?

Many thanks

[Screws]

What is it?

[baikonour]

go and check the blacklionaudio.com site

Upgraded op amps on all analog ins/outs + pre

[el cochino]

Is this a DIY mod?

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by el cochino

Is this a DIY mod?

No. Black Lion is doing the mod...lots of surface mounted component swaps...

[onion]

I'd be interested to know as well from anyone who has heard the results of the mod.

[alternative4]

interesting!never heard to mod an audio interface.just use alot modded guitar pedals.
i would want to know the difference,but don't you guys worry motu won't fix it if it gets problem?

[Autocrat]

I had my MOTU 896HD modified by BlackLionAudio. It sounds great. I didn't do any direct before and after comparisons, but everything seems a bit clearer and punchier overall. Matt is also a great guy. This is a quote from his email to me:

The nice thing about the newer MOTU stuff is that it uses the AKM converters, which is what's found in the Rosetta. The analog stages are restricted by MOTU's use of 4580 opamps, which are low noise, but just don't cut it when it comes to signal quality--they sound muffled and choked, tend to crumple under load, and add a hazy low-level distortion. Essentially, I upgrade all of the analog stages, input, output, A/D/A buffers, and headphone out, which opens up the sound considerably, drops the noise floor, and improves transient response.
Matt
Black Lion Audio

[alternative4]

Originally Posted by Autocrat

I had my MOTU 896HD modified by BlackLionAudio. It sounds great. I didn't do any direct before and after comparisons, but everything seems a bit clearer and punchier overall. Matt is also a great guy. This is a quote from his email to me:

The nice thing about the newer MOTU stuff is that it uses the AKM converters, which is what's found in the Rosetta. The analog stages are restricted by MOTU's use of 4580 opamps, which are low noise, but just don't cut it when it comes to signal quality--they sound muffled and choked, tend to crumple under load, and add a hazy low-level distortion. Essentially, I upgrade all of the analog stages, input, output, A/D/A buffers, and headphone out, which opens up the sound considerably, drops the noise floor, and improves transient response.
Matt
Black Lion Audio

the mod will also improve the headphone pre signal in 828mkII?it can't gain enough level to my beyerdynamic DT-150,so i gave up using the headphone so long ago

[baikonour]

Originally Posted by alternative4

the mod will also improve the headphone pre signal in 828mkII?it can't gain enough level to my beyerdynamic DT-150,so i gave up using the headphone so long ago

Are you sure?, I mean the headphone out can get really loud...you can control the feed from the fw console software...

Thanks autocrat for your post..

[alternative4]

Originally Posted by baikonour

Are you sure?, I mean the headphone out can get really loud...you can control the feed from the fw console software...

Thanks autocrat for your post..

yes,i mean the original stock headphone preamp,not the modded one.
it still works with my earphone,etymotic er6i which is 16 Ohms.but DT-150 is 250 Ohms.i tried to ask motu about it,they told me the headphone pre can only work well with low Impedance headphone and it should be not enough level with DT-150.

[baikonour]

ok, makes sense, I never had any problems with my Sony mdr 7509.

[Shadowgames]

interesting. I'd love to hear some reviews on this, I;ve got an 896HD sitting next to me

[Slipperman]

Do they do MOTU HD192?

I'd love to hear a mod on those as I've got about 20 of them rocking here, and they sound "meh" to me. Not terrible. Not great. Kinda like the Digi 192HD.

The audio really suffers at the top of the dynamic range(-6 up).

Both AD and DA sides.

Best,

Slippy

[T9c]

Yep they do - $250ea.

Check their website: http://www.blacklionaudio.com/motu_firewire_mod.html

I don't know if I can really buy his statement that the MOTU's use the same converters as Apogee and RME, the only difference is in the preamps. Seems a little simplistic to me as the 282MKII is less than 1/2 the price of those units.

Still, $250 or so wouldn't be to expensive to give it a try.

I heard on the MOTU forum that he has alot of backorders or it takes awhile to get the unit back.


Rick

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by slipperman

Do they do MOTU HD192?

I'd love to hear a mod on those as I've got about 20 of them rocking here, and they sound "meh" to me. Not terrible. Not great. Kinda like the Digi 192HD.

The audio really suffers at the top of the dynamic range(-6 up).

Both AD and DA sides.

Best,

Slippy

Slipperman,

Matt just started doing the HD192 and 896 I believe. This mod is a no-brainer. We're talking serious improvement to the conversion here. If you go to www.blacklionaudio.com and then click on the link for Audio at the top you will be able to download a bunch of before and after sound clips that I prepared for the MOTU Traveler. All his MOTU upgrades are pretty much the same so you can assume very similar if not identical improvements between each of the units. I did a pretty detailed set of comparisons and my super nerdy lab report accompanies the clips on that page. I think the sound clips speak for themselves--and they are compared directly to Mytek, Benchmark, and Great River.

Basically you send your unit to Matt and he upgrades the mic preamps, power supply, A/D, and D/A analog stages. The end result is an incredible value. I basically told Matt after he did my Traveler that "the preamps and A/D are actually useable now." Here's my basic impression of the mod: the preamps go from utter shite to clean clear and fast. Nothing mind blowing, but actually useable if you are looking for a good neutral sound. A serious haze gets lifted and it actually gains a decent amount of detail. The D/A goes from okay for mid-level to pretty darn good--imaging, depth, and detail improve. It still isn't Benchmark quality, but the gap is closed considerably. The A/D is improved dramatically I think. Less hash and haze, and much more depth and detail.

Check out the sound clips on the site. I think you'll agree that the mod is worth the price of admission.

Feel free to email me with any questions. I've had my unit modded for a couple months so I have had a good chance to get a feel for it.

Brad

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by T9c

Yep they do - $250ea.

Check their website: http://www.blacklionaudio.com/motu_firewire_mod.html

I don't know if I can really buy his statement that the MOTU's use the same converters as Apogee and RME, the only difference is in the preamps. Seems a little simplistic to me as the 282MKII is less than 1/2 the price of those units.

Still, $250 or so wouldn't be to expensive to give it a try.

I heard on the MOTU forum that he has alot of backorders or it takes awhile to get the unit back.


Rick

They are the same converters. It's the analog part of the design that is different and drives the cost of the high end products. There's only a few companies that make converter chips. That's not where the magic lies in the designs.

Brad

[PeeWeeGee]

Well, I got my 828MKII back today and I only have one word for the mod:

DAMN!

The difference is enough to change how I think through my mixes. The clarity and depth have a MARKED and AUDIBLE difference! I listened to some of my "old" mixes (last couple of months) based on familiarity and could clearly hear things that I did not before. ( I used some Apple loops that sound quite a bit diiferent now.) And I am using the internal clock, so I can only imagine what this will sound like when I pick up a wordclock.

Matt was AWESOME in the way of customer service and went out of his way to answer questions and address concerns. He even noted and attempted to address some issues with my unit and didn't affect HIS modification. Stand up work, guys. Not something you see too often anymore. Kudos to the Black Lion squad.

This is the best low-cost "addition" to my studio since the Trigger Finger!

PWG

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by PeeWeeGee

Well, I got my 828MKII back today and I only have one word for the mod:

DAMN!

The difference is enough to change how I think through my mixes. The clarity and depth have a MARKED and AUDIBLE difference! I listened to some of my "old" mixes (last couple of months) based on familiarity and could clearly hear things that I did not before. ( I used some Apple loops that sound quite a bit diiferent now.) And I am using the internal clock, so I can only imagine what this will sound like when I pick up a wordclock.

Matt was AWESOME in the way of customer service and went out of his way to answer questions and address concerns. He even noted and attempted to address some issues with my unit and didn't affect HIS modification. Stand up work, guys. Not something you see too often anymore. Kudos to the Black Lion squad.

This is the best low-cost "addition" to my studio since the Trigger Finger!

PWG

This is good news to hear! thumbsup

I've been thinking myself to do this mod, and now I don't have to doubt it anymore. It had been fun to hear any before/after comparisons, but I think that's out of the question, or?

/Cojo

[Brad McGowan]

If you are asking to hear before and after comparisons of the mod, then go to the BLA site. I made a bunch of sound clips for the site.

Brad

[Cojo]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

If you are asking to hear before and after comparisons of the mod, then go to the BLA site. I made a bunch of sound clips for the site.

Brad

Ok, nice! I'll do that! thumbsup

/Cojo

[TEMAS]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

Slipperman,

Matt just started doing the HD192 and 896 I believe. This mod is a no-brainer. We're talking serious improvement to the conversion here. If you go to www.blacklionaudio.com and then click on the link for Audio at the top you will be able to download a bunch of before and after sound clips that I prepared for the MOTU Traveler. All his MOTU upgrades are pretty much the same so you can assume very similar if not identical improvements between each of the units.

There's no mention of HD192 upgrades there. And I can't see how an upgrade of an HD192 would involve the 'same process' as an upgrade of a Traveller - for a start there are no pre-amps in a HD192. And as for 'identical improvements' - I would have thought that the improvements to an HD192 would be much less noticable, seeing as the original parts of an HD192 are far superior to those in other Motu units. But I'd love someone to proove me wrong and I'm sure his work does wonders on some stuff - I'd be interested in getting one those new SM Pro PM8 summing mixers modified.

[Brad McGowan]

Originally Posted by TEMAS

There's no mention of HD192 upgrades there. And I can't see how an upgrade of an HD192 would involve the 'same process' as an upgrade of a Traveller - for a start there are no pre-amps in a HD192. And as for 'identical improvements' - I would have thought that the improvements to an HD192 would be much less noticable, seeing as the original parts of an HD192 are far superior to those in other Motu units. But I'd love someone to proove me wrong and I'm sure his work does wonders on some stuff - I'd be interested in getting one those new SM Pro PM8 summing mixers modified.

Yes there actually is mention of HD192 upgrades. Look closely on the MOTU Firewire Mod page:

"MOTU 896, 896HD, and HD192: $250"

Regarding those SM Pro PM8 mixers. I spoke to the designer at NAMM and basically told him how he could modify the design to be a direct competitor for something like the Folcrom. He was listening very intently. To do that mod yourself wouldn't be too difficult either.

Brad

[Teddy Gee]

Yes, when I read closely, though the mod says it is for MOTU firewire interfaces he also has a mod for the audiowire/PCI stuff as well. You will see prices listed for the HD192 and the 2408 neither of which are firewire.

I have two 1224's and a PCI-424 card that I have been using forever (and think they sound considerably better than anything that has come after them in the MOTU line) and if he can do it I may try this mod an them also.

He even has a mod for the sad-sack little Presonus Blue-tube pre that I inherited from somewhere and is too cheap to even bother selling (and much too noisy and flat to consider using!). I might have to consider doing that also if it could really make it usable (????)

Interesting and good info (I hope!)

Stephen

[Brad McGowan]

Technical tidbit from Matt:

Regarding the HD192--they are exactly the same as the 896HD, except
they're using the AKM5385 instead of the AKM5383.

Brad

[Dor]

Originally Posted by PeeWeeGee

Well, I got my 828MKII back today and I only have one word for the mod:

DAMN!

The difference is enough to change how I think through my mixes. The clarity and depth have a MARKED and AUDIBLE difference! I listened to some of my "old" mixes (last couple of months) based on familiarity and could clearly hear things that I did not before. ( I used some Apple loops that sound quite a bit diiferent now.) And I am using the internal clock, so I can only imagine what this will sound like when I pick up a wordclock.

Matt was AWESOME in the way of customer service and went out of his way to answer questions and address concerns. He even noted and attempted to address some issues with my unit and didn't affect HIS modification. Stand up work, guys. Not something you see too often anymore. Kudos to the Black Lion squad.

This is the best low-cost "addition" to my studio since the Trigger Finger!

PWG

How long did it take to get your unit back?

[PeeWeeGee]

It was returned within the week, but I opted to expedited return shipping- and THAT was only because FEDEX dropped the ball on the pickup.

Great overall experience.

PWG

[AdamJay]

hey Brad,
like half of the audio files (some mp3 and some .wav) aren't downloading from the blacklionaudio.com site.

as such, i can't compare the modded traveller to the mytek, or the modded motu pre's to the Great River, etc. etc.

also, it may be easier for end listeners organizationally to use id3tags, instead of all the names of the files bing "recorded by brad mcgowan" in the tags.

[Brad McGowan]

I don't maintain the site, but I'll pass the word along.

I'm not sure what you mean about the tags. Can you explain further?

thanks,
Brad

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Brad McGowan

I'm not sure what you mean about the tags. Can you explain further?

thanks,
Brad

Sure,
If i open the mp3's in iTunes, for example, the Name of the song is just "recorded by Brad McGowan", and the artist is "Black Lion Audio"

having the name of the song in the tag something more descriptive like "D/A LoopBack - Modded Motu" or "D/A LoopBack - Stock Motu" would be much more helpful. As it is now, all the names of the files are the same. In itunes, and other id3 tag based players, you can't view the original file name. its all tag based.

An easy way to change the tags is simply open them in iTunes, right click the song, go to "Get Info", and then "Info" and you can change all of the details here.