here's links to Preamp and Mic charts.

[nukmusic]

while doing some "googling" this link popped up.

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micpregraph.htm

and

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micgraph.htm

[borau]

Those graphs ar some of the most pure and true examples of BS I have ever seen.

Not only do they stupidify, they are also plain wrong.

Man....what is happening in this business....

[Cap'n Spanky]

Originally Posted by borau

Those graphs ar some of the most pure and true examples of BS I have ever seen.

Not only do they stupidify, they are also plain wrong.

Man....what is happening in this business....

I must be one of those new stupid people who are ruining the business. Care to elablorate on the specific problem with these graphs? I don't think they are intended to be perfect, but rather give users a general idea of how certain mics or preamps compare in color. I've personally found the mic chart to be helpful and accurate by my experience.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by borau

Those graphs ar some of the most pure and true examples of BS I have ever seen.

Not only do they stupidify, they are also plain wrong.

Man....what is happening in this business....

Enlighten us oh wise one.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by borau

Those graphs ar some of the most pure and true examples of BS I have ever seen.

Not only do they stupidify, they are also plain wrong.

Man....what is happening in this business....

In my experience these seem to be pretty much how I would discribe the units. I have not used each piece of gear on both pages but of the ones I have used I would say that these are mostly accurate, subjective but in the right ball park.

What is it that you think is off?

[borau]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Enlighten us oh wise one.

mmmmhhhh, the sweet smell of flatter
Or irony, but I'll insist on being naive

OK.

DPA...transparent? They are imho much more recognizeable than a whole lot of other mics.
Sony 800G, transparent? - One of THE most recognizeable mics...
Beyer M160 darker than Coles 4038?
Neuman M147 much darker than U87?
M147 Darker than Gefell M300?
D12 darker than any other microphone? No top?
MC012 Darker than M300?
U47 almost as dark as 4038?
C12 on the other side of the scale from U47?
DPA more transparent than 4038?
4038 colored?
Solidtube darker than 4038?


I stand by my first post.

But, hey, if anyone finds this helpful I don't want to spoil the fun!
It's just that
A/ you can't make any decisions based on those graphs, you need to good old listen for yourself.
B/They are to a large extent incorrect.

I make mental charts like that all the time, as I'm shure a lot of us do, but they are often proved to be wrong in practical applications, and do also consist of more than 2dimensions.

I haven't really counted the number of dimensions of these mental charts, but the number is somewhere between 999,999 and 1,000,000.

I know a lot of people shopping gear, which is so desperate to find simple "answers" like these charts provide, especially when theres no MA or VK next door, or an overnight domestic Fed-ex away.

But it just doesn't work that way,

or am I just turning into a grumpy old man at a way premature age?

[copperx]

Originally Posted by borau

I haven't really counted the number of dimensions of these mental charts, but the number is somewhere between 999,999 and 1,000,000.

Is that a math degree what you have on the wall?

[borau]

Originally Posted by copperx

Is that a math degree what you have on the wall?

Nah,
It's just a expression, which gets quite funny after it's been used a few times. Not quite sure about HOW many time it has to be used, but it's somewhere between 99 and 100.

Drier than Sahara, I know.

[True North]

Originally Posted by borau

DPA...transparent? They are imho much more recognizeable than a whole lot of other mics.

DPA are generally noted for their 'transparency' - just because you can recognize it does not mean it is not transparent. In fact I would argue if that someone could some how engineer an absolute 100% transparent mic it would probably be very recognizable.

Originally Posted by borau

U47 almost as dark as 4038?

Any U47 that i have heard tend to be very dark almost to the point of muffled. For some reason they just really seem to sit well in the mix. Whether it is 'darker' than a 4038 I don't know.

Originally Posted by borau

C12 on the other side of the scale from U47?

Maybe I am coming from another planet on this but a C12 and a U47 are generally considered on opposite ends of the scale, is your experience different? I have never listened to a C12 and U47 side by side but I do know that C12 offers a brighter overall presence while the U47 is generally considered darker and warmer.

Originally Posted by borau

A/ you can't make any decisions based on those graphs, you need to good old listen for yourself.

Agreed, as with any other peice of equiptment.

Originally Posted by borau

B/They are to a large extent incorrect.

That is a pretty general statement, perhaps you can elaborate.

Originally Posted by borau

I know a lot of people shopping gear, which is so desperate to find simple "answers" like these charts provide, especially when theres no MA or VK next door, or an overnight domestic Fed-ex away.

But it just doesn't work that way,

or am I just turning into a grumpy old man at a way premature age?

Ultimately anyone who makes a large or significant purchase decision solely based on that chart is need of some, er, ummmm, redirection. That being said, I highly doubt that people are making their decisions solely based on one chart. I do know for certain that some people might use the chart as PART of their purchase decision and there are many of those people who will not listen before buying and that is a shame.

However, If we want to be honest, most people on this site have made at least some purchase decisions with less than perfect pre testing procedures. Personally I didn't find the chart as offensive as you did and the characterizations are (IMHO) not too far off. But hey we are all entitled to an opinion. If any of you out there are planning on making your purchase decision solely based on the chart than give your head a shake.

Cheers!

[Fearless1]

I own about half of the mics on the graph. I think the graph is pretty much on target. I wish I could own half of the pres. Thanks for the links True North!
Also thanks to DOT for making the graphs.

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by borau

Nah,
It's just a expression,

It is an English degree, apparantly.

i kid... i kid...

[e-cue]

No AC Cable chart? Major disappointment.

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by e-cue

No AC Cable chart? Major disappointment.

LMAO I think their site is cool. everybody talks but hey.... they posted audio clips of these mic and/or pres at work. what more can you ask?. well besides asking the manufactures to sent you out a few free pres/mic to test.....for a few months .

the gear i've heard is pretty much in line with the charts. but i only know about 45% of each.

[borau]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

It is an English degree, apparantly.

i kid... i kid...

Bastard

[SoundChances]

The Mic Graph seems about right to me, I have or have used several of those mics and every single one seems like it's placed correctly on the graph.....

[borau]

Originally Posted by Fearless1

I own about half of the mics on the graph. I think the graph is pretty much on target.

Obviously the other half than me, then

[Fearless1]

Originally Posted by borau

Obviously the other half than me, then

I own the bright half, so that means you own the dark half?

[warhead]

Originally Posted by e-cue

No AC Cable chart? Major disappointment.

No, not again...

War

[PRobb]

They list the DACS Clarity mic pre as "hyper transparent". I have never heard of this one. Anybody here use it?

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by borau

Obviously the other half than me, then

[nek]

Originally Posted by nukmusic

while doing some "googling" this link popped up.

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micpregraph.htm

and

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micgraph.htm

Thanks for the links. They seam useful to me (YMMV apparently).

[nukmusic]

Originally Posted by nek

Thanks for the links. They seam useful to me (YMMV apparently).

cool....here's some audio http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php3?t=61405