Yamaha HS80 : horrible harshness???

[Roswell]

Hey guys,

I have a pretty nice mixing room, pretty large with bass traps, absorbtion, and so on and just bought a pair of HS80m to complement my bluesky 2.1 system.

Well, I was just wondering if I'm the only one who think that these are way too harsh? I've red stuff about them being a bit on the bright side (SOS review, forums etc) but I'm very surprised how ugly the high end is... Also, the mid seem scooped, even in flat mode on the back! I never use the buttons on the back anyway because don't liked the way they usually alter the overall sound of the speaker. But for the first time I'm tempted to do it!

Do the tweeters need time to get smoother? What about this subtle kind of V shape? When I switch to my other system, the difference is quite phenomenal. The HS80 are not revealing in the mids.

The main advantage I've found so far on the Yams is the reverb tails being pretty well define. That's it.

The bass is relatively good, well define and solid. Not deep though but nice for that size, no muddiness.

Do you guys can actually make critical mixing on those? I've spend one hour trying to work on the Yams and listening to commercial CD's with no improvement with the overall impression...

[evangelista]

They're definitely "forward" sounding. I don't find them to be "scooped". I agree with your assessment of their bass response.

Maybe you just don't like them.

[Roswell]

Originally Posted by evangelista

They're definitely "forward" sounding. I don't find them to be "scooped". I agree with your assessment of their bass response.

Maybe you just don't like them.

That's might be it. When you say "forward" sounding, do you find them harsh at time at reasonable volume? Also, does it improve over time?

I wonder if they translate well, I'm afraid I'll tend to smooth out thing too much for real life speaker if I work on those speaker. Big question... I'm listening to them right now, they're definitely harsh sounding and I know this is not my room. It's almost like every album need more deessing.

[Roswell]

Oh, and one more thing. The worst musical style on these speaker is metal. I've tried some rock, pop, acoustic and jazz but metal is very bad sounding... For example, Just played an old Fear Factory record (Demanufacture)... Scarry how scoop the mids and harsh the treble are. On the other system, the record is very well balanced and I'm very used to this record... Maybe they're not the 1st choice for metal mixers? Any inputs??

[timlloyd]

I have some and generally concur with your sonic observations. I run mine always with the HF cut by 2dB, the room eq at -2dB and sometimes with the mid eq at +2dB.

[tinlunchbox]

I love the way they sound actually. I did bump the mids up 2dB because I wanted that frequency range to be a little more pronounced, but other than that I don't have any complaints. I've always found my mixes to translate really well once I started using these. I also came from the BlueSky 2.1 system, and the quality of my mixes since switching to the HS80Ms skyrocketed. I like listening to music on them too, not just mixing. I have three sets of speakers in my room but these are the only ones I use every day. But monitors are a personal thing, what might work for you might not work for me!

[Roswell]

Thank you. I'll try to fine tune them with the switches then hoping I won't loose too much balance.

Yes, monitors are definitely a personal thing, the most important thing is to feel comfortable and above all that mixes translate well. I'm glad to hear your mixes do translate well , it encourages me to keep experimenting a little more with these.

tinlunchbox, Out of curiosity, have you tried your HS80 with your bluesky side by side? What do you find best/worst in the HS? Maybe the sub didn't suit your room? Which system did you use?

[tinlunchbox]

Roswell, yeah I found the BlueSky's sub was problematic, I just couldn't get it to sound right in my room. Also I was missing a lot of detail that I found in the HS80Ms. In fact once I got the Yamahas I listened to mixes I had done with the BlueSkys and heard a lot of things that I wish I had heard before I finished the mixes! The thing to remember about the Yamahas is that they are very revealing; listen to guys that do really layered production like Devin Townsend or Trent Reznor and you'll hear what I mean. Also, not to question your knowledge on these things, but where do you have the Yamahas placed? Because they are ported in the back, you'll need some space between them and the wall they're against, and then of course the basics... tweeter at ear level, the equilateral triangle setup, etc. Again, not trying to question your knowledge at all, just making sure you have the basics down, which you probably do.

[Roswell]

Originally Posted by tinlunchbox

Roswell, yeah I found the BlueSky's sub was problematic, I just couldn't get it to sound right in my room. Also I was missing a lot of detail that I found in the HS80Ms. In fact once I got the Yamahas I listened to mixes I had done with the BlueSkys and heard a lot of things that I wish I had heard before I finished the mixes! The thing to remember about the Yamahas is that they are very revealing; listen to guys that do really layered production like Devin Townsend or Trent Reznor and you'll hear what I mean. Also, not to question your knowledge on these things, but where do you have the Yamahas placed? Because they are ported in the back, you'll need some space between them and the wall they're against, and then of course the basics... tweeter at ear level, the equilateral triangle setup, etc. Again, not trying to question your knowledge at all, just making sure you have the basics down, which you probably do.

No problem, I understand. I have the Yamaha placed pretty far from the walls, at least 1.20 or 1.30 meters. Also, I have many bass traps in the rooms as well as absorbers at first reflections. I'm not in the center of the room and not against the well neither. My room is approx 35/40 square meters. Tweeters are at ears level, the monitors are placed horizontally for that purpose. I'm pretty much in an equilateral triangle but not exactly because I have a large desk.

I'll check some Nine Inch Nails records tomorrow. Also, what do you mean by "layered" productions? Lots of tracks with electronics? Double tracking, drums replacement/augmentation?

[tinlunchbox]

Cool, they should be in a good place for sound purposes then.

And sorry for the vague comment, what I meant was songs with a lot of sounds layered over each other, making a dense mix. I've found that with the Yamahas you can hear more in the mix than with say the BlueSkys. In any event, you may want to do some measurements with an SPL and test tones to dial in the Yamahas by playing back sine waves, pink noise, etc. at different frequencies and adjusting the switches to get them more even and tuned to your room. Hope this helps!

[Preampniak]

I have the HighF turned down on mine I thought they sounded really harsh at first but with the highs adjusted I like them alot.

I would play music that you like and know the best thru it and adjust the controls on the back to make that music sound good.

Then when you make a mix sound good, it should translate. Like any monitors it takes time to learn them.

[jrakarl]

What was missing in the Blue Sky system that prompted you to buy the HS80's? Have you got the SAT 6.5II plus 12" sub?

I just purchased a Blue Sky system and while not blown away (one speakers was damaged) I think the bottom end from the sub has been a big improvement on my previous system.
I was considering buying HS80's prior to getting the Blue Sky 2:1 system.. the HS80's were cheaper and I love Yamaha gear in general but I thought a sub would help some of the electronic music I've been doing...

In what ways do you feel the HS80's beat the Blue Sky set up?

[brrecording]

I completely agree with you, I've had mine for a year and a half now. At first I thought they needed to be played in and gotten used to but it hasn't worked for me! I think I just don't like them, I find them incredibly harsh and find I cant mix for any amount of time without my ears being in pain!

I'm now biding my time to switch monitors, thinking about the krk Vxt 8's I would also take into consideration that alot of people LOVE the hs' and so I would definately give them a chance. I did and I'm happy I did, they don't agree with me but it was a lesson learnt!

[cowrange]

I tried them a while back, and then happily returned them.

[bruceferraudi]

Theres at least 1 person who cant stand them for every one that loves them. Guys who like-prefer brighter speakers tend to like them and other guys are really turned off by bright speakers. Personally-I agree with you about their brightness-which I also interpret as harshness. They do sound relatively balanced overall but have their issues just like any speaker in this price bracket and below. They get lotsa love on here from some but I think theyre kinda cheap looking too and not worth their asking price. Id be alot kinder if they were priced closer to KRK RP8s, Mackie MR8s or M-Audios, etc. And HS50s are much, much worse. Ridiculously bright, no bass, hyped mids-yuck!! Stay way clear of these unless your trying to reference a really crap sounding playback system-which, ironically, is often the case with the average consumer today.

I like KRK VXT6s much better in this price bracket. Better mid detail and transparency, smoother highs, good bass. Not sure where to place the entry level JBLs 2328 and Mackie MR8s but last time I checked I preferred the M-Audio BX Deluxers for thier clearer, more transparent midrange. Bass is really difficult to judge without a really well treated room and it may be better to mix bass on headphones for many.

[Roswell]

Interesting. I'm going to try them again today with differents settings on the back.

As I have many bass traps in my room, I prefer to mix on speakers because I find it way more accurate than headphones. I never trust headphones for low end, use them to check saturation or acoustic problem when necessary.

I think that if I return the HS80, I'll try the Mackie MR8, it is said that they are nothing spectacular in term of details but well balanced and neutral which is what I'm looking for.

Oh and I try not to test monitors in store because I really want to hear them first in my own room, it may sound picky or stupid but I think it's more reasonable to do that.

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by Roswell

Hey guys,

I have a pretty nice mixing room, pretty large with bass traps, absorbtion, and so on and just bought a pair of HS80m to complement my bluesky 2.1 system.

Well, I was just wondering if I'm the only one who think that these are way too harsh? I've red stuff about them being a bit on the bright side (SOS review, forums etc) but I'm very surprised how ugly the high end is... Also, the mid seem scooped, even in flat mode on the back! I never use the buttons on the back anyway because don't liked the way they usually alter the overall sound of the speaker. But for the first time I'm tempted to do it!

Do the tweeters need time to get smoother? What about this subtle kind of V shape? When I switch to my other system, the difference is quite phenomenal. The HS80 are not revealing in the mids.

The main advantage I've found so far on the Yams is the reverb tails being pretty well define. That's it.

The bass is relatively good, well define and solid. Not deep though but nice for that size, no muddiness.

Do you guys can actually make critical mixing on those? I've spend one hour trying to work on the Yams and listening to commercial CD's with no improvement with the overall impression...

Hi,

I own a pair of HS80 and I think your assessment is spot on. I don't think they are good at all as a primary reference source, I do think they are good for referencing your mix on lower quality systems, ironically I think the HS50's (which a friend let me try out for a while) are better for this pourpse. I actually wish I had gotten those instead. I wonder if my friend would do a trade with me?

[Roswell]

Originally Posted by Mind-Over-Midi

Hi,

I own a pair of HS80 and I think your assessment is spot on. I don't think they are good at all as a primary reference source, I do think they are good for referencing your mix on lower quality systems, ironically I think the HS50's (which a friend let me try out for a while) are better for this pourpse. I actually wish I had gotten those instead. I wonder if my friend would do a trade with me?

I've never tried the HS50 but I guess they should be the same without the low end extension. Does your friend use them flat? I'm not sure if there's switches in the back of the 50's though...

Concerning the 80's, my understanding is that put a cheap brand on it, Behringer, Samson or anything else and people would say the're not that great. Maybe most people compare them to the notorious NS10 which is why they have big success.

Also, though Yamaha's claims that any mix done on these speakers (in a proper acoustic environment) would translate anywhere doesn't seem to be true for me/my room. I mean I've listened to tons of commercial records on different sets of speakers, expensive and cheap and they sound perfectly good anywhere... but on the Yamahas!

So I'm afraid mixing on them will lead you to correct things that don't need to be fixed thus resulting in dull mixes.

Once again I might be wrong but this is my 1st impressions switching back and forth with the Blue Skys...

[jnorman]

i find your experience quite different from mine with the hs80's. i had been using tannoy active reveals before, and auditioned genelecs, adams, krk vxt series, blue sky, etc. while i originally thought i would wind up with genelecs or adams, i wound up purchasing the yamaha hs80m's specifically because of the harsh-ish high end i was hearing from both the genelecs and adams. i find the yammys to be big, smooth, and open, and they translate extremely well for me.

[Heartfelt]

Roswell,
I found my tweeters to soften a bit over time. They work well with
translation in my experience.

I came from Mackie monitors, the original 8" speakers. I found the
Yams tightened up the lowend consistency and accuracy and gave
greater clarity. I feel that I can hear everything from top to bottom
but there are a few observations worth making:

1. The bottom is not extravagant... adequate but no more.
2. The male vocal range, especially the top, stands out a bit
3. The top end is bright and when louder than average mix volume
for extended periods, can be fatiguing.

I find success keeping the volume moderate and double checking levels
in mono and on my 2nd set (computer speakers).

GL, hope you find something you like.
Rob

[eascholz]

This is a good thread. I started using my HS80Ms about 18 months ago, and I didn't start to know them well enough 'till about 6 months ago. Contrary to some folks earlier in this thread, I actually find that the HS80Ms mask reverb tails for me. Now, I have a pair of BX5As coming in the mail just because I know I love the way they translate, and I need to hear my verb tails. At this point, I know the HS80s well enough to know that I wouldn't print a final mix before referencing on something else first.

[crille_mannen]

The Yamaha Hs80 translate very well, when you grown accustomed to them.
Im sitting in a treated room and yes they are a bit on the harsh side, and are a bit week on the highbass (around 200-250hz) but ither then that they are the best monitors in the low-end/mid-end section.

If your mix sound good on these then they sound good anywhere, trust me.

I like them allot

[Roswell]

Do you guys use them in flat mode?

[crille_mannen]

I use -2db on the highs other than that flat

[britdick]

i have been saying all along that these monitors are SHIT! Not to be mixed on. They are barely adequate for hi-fi use.

DO NOT GET THEM! No matter what the dick at GTR CTR says.

[bdenton]

"i have been saying all along that these monitors are SHIT!"

Not willing to face the fact that the HS80's are showing you that it's your mixes that are SHIT?

[evangelista]

Originally Posted by Roswell

That's might be it. When you say "forward" sounding, do you find them harsh at time at reasonable volume? Also, does it improve over time?

I wonder if they translate well, I'm afraid I'll tend to smooth out thing too much for real life speaker if I work on those speaker. Big question... I'm listening to them right now, they're definitely harsh sounding and I know this is not my room. It's almost like every album need more deessing.

I run mine flat in a decently treated room. I generally monitor pretty softly, so I don't find them fatiguing (though I can see how they would be after long periods of loud listening).

Maybe that's why they work for me, I dunno. Aggressive music sounds very aggressive on them, to be sure. I rarely listen to or work on anything "hard", so again, YMMV.

I wouldn't classify them as "pleasurable" speakers (like, say, Dynaudio's). But they expose a mix in exactly the way I like and that yields superior translation, in my experience.

There are certainly better speakers, but in that price range, not for me.

[britdick]

Originally Posted by bdenton

"i have been saying all along that these monitors are SHIT!"

Not willing to face the fact that the HS80's are showing you that it's your mixes that are SHIT?

Hardly. Those monitors are no good. PERIOD. How many pro's do u see using them? How many people prosthelytizing about how amazing they are? None. Not like the Mackies when they first came out. How many pro studio shots have them on the monitor bridge? None. There's a reason for that.

i had them. They suck. i now have S3A's and a pair of 1031's. Weirdly my mixes still sound terrible. Huh, maybe it wasn't the HS80's.

Riiiiiiiight.

[Heartfelt]

Originally Posted by britdick

i had them. They suck. i now have S3A's and a pair of 1031's. Weirdly my mixes still sound terrible. Huh, maybe it wasn't the HS80's.

Riiiiiiiight.

ROFL... of course you hear a difference. You better for that pony up money. In that range, I'd be auditioning the Opals.

[DAH]

-2 on highs +2 on mids. makes a difference.