A question on studio ethics, Part 3

[ArcCirDude]

Hello all!
I thought you would perhaps be interested in an update on one of my previous, rather popular posts. Here is the link if you'd like a reminder:http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showt...t=54818&page=5

If not, here's the Readers Digest version:

Conducter/arranger/producer/church guy sits in while I mix a recording I made of his choir. Guy approves of mix. Guy takes it back to choir and plays it, gets 50 opinions. Suddenly wants another guy to mix project. No problem. Send new mixer files in his format (ProTools). New mixer then wants my Logic files with all automation and plug-in info. I submit question to the Gearslutz for your input on sending him my mix since this has never happened to me in my 15 years as an engineer. General prof consensus; give them the whole mix, "not worth bad press", "they paid for whole mix".

So, I had already given the new mixer the Logic files w/o EQ, Pan, Automation, plug-ins. He didn't ask for the mix with the plug-ins after that. I would have given it to him had he done so based on your slutty feedback (Thanks, by the by!).

And now, the rest of the story.....

The guy who was to do the new mix turned out to be the mastering engineer. After they sent my mix to him he told the Church Guy that my mix was bad and that he could do a much better job mixing it. That's why Church Guy suddenly wanted a new mix.
Now, this guy is also my only competitor in the local market. I moved my studio here from the states last year. You gotta drive 6 hours south or 5 hours north to find another studio of our quality. After sending the files minus my settings, he then told the Church Guy that my raw files were of so bad a quality that they couldn't be mixed! They now want a full refund! Holy sabatage, Batman!

I, of course, told them in a 3 page letter how they paid for services rendered and that I indeed delivered what was promised. Church Guy in fact approved each of the several takes ON SITE after each take was finished. Something smells fishy here.... Then one of the musicians called to tell me they received a letter from the choir committee say that due to my bad work the CD would not be given out. I contacted the other musicians and all had received the same letter. Now I was pissed.

I then contacted and played my mix to the 6 professional musicians who were on the project. EVERY ONE OF THEM loved my work and were shocked to hear of the developments. But not after hearing who the mastering engineer was..... They have all contacted the Church Guy to tell him that they had heard my mix and that it was very professional and should be released. I have written a new letter demanding that the committee withdraw their statement and apologize because of the damage it has done to my reputation.

Now, in order to satisfy the client, I also finished the letter by saying that I would be willing to finish the project, at my expense, WITHOUT the involvement of the mastering engineer/new mixer. Choose a new man to master...

So, it seems this guy deemed me a threat to his livelihood and tried to sabatage my reputation. This has actually happened to me before as a trumpet player here in Norway! But luckily, the truth will prevail! I work all the time....

The moral? Jeez...I dunno..... Keep calm, stay professional, stick to your guns, the customer ISN'T always right (but you knew that anyway), pass your entire mix on if asked and swallow your pride, get a second opinion from someone with ears (if only for your own sanity), be prepared for the worst!, ALWAYS get a written contract (especially when dealing with churches!) and finally, trust your fellow slutz for wisdom and support!

[jslevin]

You really need to consult an attorney at this point. If this were in the U.S., you'd have a very strong case for tortious interference -- not only against your rival engineer, but also against all the members of the choir committee who signed off on that letter.

In the U.S., the choir committee folks would be liable for publishing negative remarks about the quality of your work to a large group of potential clients (professional and amateur musicians) that could have a severe impact on your business. It makes no difference whether they did it out of malice or recklessness, there is no excuse in either event.

This has moved way beyond just trying to make nice with people. You need to act aggressively to defend your business reputation. And to whatever extent possible, you need to make it clear to the choir committee and to your competitor that they are not free to say just any negative thing they want that may impact your business.

There is freedom of speech, but one's speech nonetheless has consequences. I hope Norwegian law can provide you with some redress or protection.

[T_R_S]

It's called being stuck between a rock and a hard place. I get paid for my job NOT how I do my job. Went a studio session player comes in does a guitar lesson come included with session - I think not. If you dissagree too bad.
This is one of the main reason I use lots of outboard gear. The fact that I also have a 7 Card HD system I let mixes go as they are. They could never recall all them anyway.
I know this does not really help in your situation.
To those that argue "I paid for your services" ... yes you did but you did not pay for how we did it.
The other touchy part is the the samples you used (if any) Do you give them those too?

There was a posting on this very site a few days ago on some wanting to hire a " Beat Detective Expert" session They wanted to pay for the session while they looked over your shoulder an learned. They should have posted wanting beat detective lessons.
These aot the kind of clients you want send they on there way to another studio and give somone else your headache.

[ArcCirDude]

Don't worry. They have the same laws over here, possibly even stricter than in the US. I'm covered. And it won't cost me anything except time should it go that far. I'm hoping we can resolve this in a amicable manner.

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

This is one of the main reason I use lots of outboard gear. The fact that I also have a 7 Card HD system I let mixes go as they are. They could never recall all them anyway.
I know this does not really help in your situation.

Actually, I do use outboard in my mixing via the i/o plugin in Logic. But I used only my SMC-2B and Massivo on the bus on this project.

[Dr. Doof]

Would you consider posting a sample of your work? That way the feedback will tell the story. If we love it... your the "good guy" if it's bad we'll tell you that too!

Just a thought.

Dr.

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doof

Would you consider posting a sample of your work? That way the feedback will tell the story. If we love it... your the "good guy" if it's bad we'll tell you that too!

Just a thought.

Dr.

Yeah! As a matter of fact, I made a mpeg of a tune to get some feedback from you slutz but couldn't get it uploaded. I'd really like to post an aiff of a tune instead of a smashed, degraded, compressed file. Can anyone inform me how to do this? If not I'll try to post the mpeg tomorrow.

[Jules]

Wow...

[Reptil]

it's a jungle

hows that tubetech treating you?

[Sqye]

Always politics, and crazies - and we wonder why people are blowing themselves up in public places

You sound like you have a lot of patience - I might have called Fletcher to break their kneecaps, by now - the whole fr*gg*n LOT o' them.

[joelpatterson]

Geez Louise... I guess the only defense is to be sure the mix you've put together is absolutely hands down no question the most gorgeous thing anyone has ever heard. Any less than that, any room for debate, and what a nightmare!

[Sqye]

Linda Perry talked about giving out her raw tracks to another producer (for the first time, ever) on the Gwen Stefani CD, and getting virtually NO CREDIT for all the work she did, even though almost all the tracks on the song were hers I think they gave her credit for keyboards, or something, even though she'd done the LEAD VOCALS, guitars, bass, drums, etc.

Unfortunately, it's a sad and cruel world. People are f*cke$d up. That's why I've decided to take up cat-juggling and move to Uranus.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by Sqye

You sound like you have a lot of patience - I might have called Fletcher to break their kneecaps, by now - the whole fr*gg*n LOT o' them.

LOL Exactly what I was thinking about. I'm not a violent person but...
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showp...77&postcount=8

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by Reptil

hows that tubetech treating you?

At this point it's strapped to my 2 bus. Love it.

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by Sqye

You sound like you have a lot of patience - I might have called Fletcher to break their kneecaps, by now - the whole fr*gg*n LOT o' them.

Well, there's only 4 million people in Norway and most of them live in the cities. I'm in a small college town up north a stones throw from the Arctic Circle. I can't afford to make anyone angry. It'll be in tomorrows paper if I do. This is no place to burn bridges....

[lucey]

Wow, that ME is way out of line. I've told one client ever that he might want to consider that I mix the work, and I was so very diplomatic about it. That mixer had sent them to me and had no problem with my remix input.

Do you need a server to post the tune? PM me...

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Geez Louise... I guess the only defense is to be sure the mix you've put together is absolutely hands down no question the most gorgeous thing anyone has ever heard. Any less than that, any room for debate, and what a nightmare!

One of the guys at the university is related to Jan Erik Kongshaug. He said he could hook me up with him to get an outside opinion on the mix if this goes further. I'll do it in a heartbeat.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by lucey

Wow, that ME is way out of line.

Yeah, it is kind of hard to believe that he's even a legit mastering engineer, isn't it?

Again, it's hard to say because it's all third-hand. But it kind of reminds me of those guys who really only know one way to record and one way to mix, and their recordings don't work for anyone else and they don't know how to mix anything they didn't record ...

[borau]

Gary,

Youre in no possision to burn bridges, I understand that well.

I'm pretty familiar with the geography around you, and when you say the mastering is 6 hours south I can only assume- T.heim?

There is NO serious mastering engineers even there, as far as I've been told(I've worked with musicians from there), but far to many mediocre studios.

This can explain mastering guys attitude, you know.

If you want to, send me mastering guys name, and I'll check his reputation with some of his locals, and maybe provide you with some ammo.

Jan Erik from my knowledge might not be the guy who wants to be involved, BTW.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

Well, there's only 4 million people in Norway and most of them live in the cities. I'm in a small college town up north a stones throw from the Arctic Circle. I can't afford to make anyone angry. It'll be in tomorrows paper if I do. This is no place to burn bridges....

Listen, I know you're trying to be all polite, professional and PC, and keep the work coming in. But, at a certain point, YOU actually become the one with the bad rep ANYWAY, because people take you for granted because you're such a pushover - that's all I'm saying. If you have the guts to stand up for what you know is right (and it certainly seems as if you do), people will respect you. And THAT'S the rep you want.

Hey, I'm just a guy who puts my pants on one leg at a time, but I don't know ANY successful people in the world who take it up the @$$ from unreasonable, unprofessional and outright back-stabbing people, the likes of whom it sounds like you might be currently entwined.

I'm telling you - call Fletcher, I've heard he has some friends Tree and Trunk who might be able to help out in this particular situation.

btw - how far are you from Franz Josefland?

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by Sqye

Listen, I know you're trying to be all polite, professional and PC, and keep the work coming in. But, at a certain point, YOU actually become the one with the bad rep ANYWAY, because people take you for granted because you're such a pushover - that's all I'm saying. If you have the guts to stand up for what you know is right (and it certainly seems as if you do), people will respect you. And THAT'S the rep you want.

Hey, I'm just a guy who puts my pants on one leg at a time, but I don't know ANY successful people in the world who take it up the @$$ from unreasonable, unprofessional and outright back-stabbing people, the likes of whom it sounds like you might be currently entwined.

I'm telling you - call Fletcher, I've heard he has some friends Tree and Trunk who might be able to help out in this particular situation.

btw - how far are you from Franz Josefland?

Don't worry.... As I said, I have sent a letter demanding that they withdraw the statement that my recordings were of bad quality. If not, I WILL take this further.

Haha... Yeah, brothers Tree and Trunk were most certainly on my mind when I found out...

And I'm QUITE a ways south of Franz Josef Land.... I'm from New Orleans and where I am is far enough north, thank you. Brrrrrr.....

[YZ!]

ArcCircDude,

check your PMs.

[ArcCirDude]

Funny/Strange sidenote: We had a pretty violent winter storm blow through here a couple of weeks ago. Hurricane force winds for 3 days. The church where this was recorded and the choir/director/producer calls home was lifted off it's foundation and moved about 1 foot. The damage is so severe that it may not be repairable. If I were a god fearin' man, this would make the little hairs on my back stand on end..... Since I'm not I just scratch my chin and say, "Hmm...".stike

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

The church where this was recorded and the choir/director/producer calls home was lifted off it's foundation and moved about 1 foot.

!!!!!!

how are you planning on using this to your advantage?

"god is unhappy that you're questioning my mix".

[autodidactic]

...and a mysterious voice from the sky says: "thou shalt not conduct thyself as a dirty rat bastard"

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by zimv20

!!!!!!

how are you planning on using this to your advantage?

"god is unhappy that you're questioning my mix".

HAHA!!! Right......

Actually it's a shame 'cause it is a couple of hundred years old.

[zimv20]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

it's a shame 'cause it is a couple of hundred years old.

are they going to repair it? in all seriousness, you are the maker of the last recording made in the pre-disaster church. maybe they want to release it after all.

[ArcCirDude]

Originally Posted by zimv20

are they going to repair it? in all seriousness, you are the maker of the last recording made in the pre-disaster church. maybe they want to release it after all.

Hey! An new angle! Haha!

[pabloman]

Are you a member of any organization for musicians? I know that i.e. MFO would give you a helping hand in a situation like this!

Good luck!

[joelpatterson]

Originally Posted by ArcCirDude

One of the guys at the university is related to Jan Erik Kongshaug. He said he could hook me up with him to get an outside opinion on the mix if this goes further. I'll do it in a heartbeat.

Do it! I'd get Thor Heyerdahl and Beowulf and everybody else listening to your mix.

That's really your only defense. Make it look like anyone who's questioning you is an idiot, or maybe just stupid. That's the whole entire point of everything you're doing. Not to make dickhead approve-all-the-takes-but-change-his-mind-later happy, not to make anyone happy. It's to walk away from your desk when you're printing the mix saying, "God damn... I didn't know this was possible."