Converters/Monitor issues PLEASE HELP

[mistaD]

First i want to appologize for the lengthy post but im really in a rut! Also shouts out to everyone who contributes on this forum as i've been reading on here for a while and have learned more in months here then years of books and classes!

I upgraded my studio from a Yamaha dsp2416 card and a Mindprint Envoice to a RME Multiface and Mindprint DTC and my monitoring setup from an old Kenwood amp with JBL bookshelf speakers to Yamaha NS-10M'S and a samson reference amp. I used to use the spdif out from the DI-mod of the envocie into the yamaha dsp and was pleased with the results i was getting, i had quite a few mixes playing on local comercial radio! Heres the thing though.... now with the upgrade my mixes sound like garbage! They sound great through my monitor setup( Yamaha NS-10M's & Samson studio amp) but completly different when i burn a disc and play it on a home system or a car stereo. Now The high end sounds sterile and weak with an annoying crisp even on dry tracks(no eq) especially on precussion like Congas,Cymbals and Claps! My low end is still good if not a bit too much. With the Yamaha what i mixed and what i burnt were exactly the same! So i have a few questions!

1. Right now i use the spdif in/out from the DI-mod on my DTC! So i guess im bypassing the RME Multifaces converters? Would i be better off using the converters on the Multiface rather then the DTC?

2. Today for the first time i moved from 44.1 khz to 96khz and noticed that the same sterility and weak sounds that were showing up on my home system were now more evident on my monitoring system! Does this mean i'd be better suited to record and monitor in 24/96khz?

3. Is this just what good converters sound like.... are they just too clean and was it the color of the Yamaha Dsp card in cunjunction with the dirt and warmth of the enovices tube that i was hearing?

4. The only other changes that were made were i started triggering my samples from Battery and Kontakt rather then my Akai S2000 and i use a lot more VSTI'S in place of my Korg Trinity. Are the same samples that used to be warm through my Akai now sterile because of the software synths/Samplers? Even though I still route them through My DTC to warm them back up!

5. Or is this just a bad monitoring setup wtih bad room accoustics thats throwing off my mixes? Does anyone have any links to other threads or sites that can assist in treating my room?

I honestly feel like i have to learn how to mix all over again because what i was used to hearing on the crappy kenwood amp and JBL bookshelf speakers is completly different then what im getting with my new setup but it was translating bettter to other systems then my mixes do now! Any help would be greatly appreciated guys!

[Bat Head Sound]

How long had you been mixing on the jbl's? If you had been mixing on them for a while, then you might have started to notice all of the nuances of those speakers and how they sound in the room and compensated for it. Now that you have a different set of monitors, you have to get yourself adjusted to mixing on them. One thing that you might want to consider, is to somehow acoustically treat your room, if at all possible. Hope that helps.

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by Bat Head Sound

How long had you been mixing on the jbl's? If you had been mixing on them for a while, then you might have started to notice all of the nuances of those speakers and how they sound in the room and compensated for it. Now that you have a different set of monitors, you have to get yourself adjusted to mixing on them. One thing that you might want to consider, is to somehow acoustically treat your room, if at all possible. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the reply! I was mixing on them for like 4 years! Do you know of any threads or sites that can show me how to acoustically treat my room.

[TEMAS]

The first thing you should do whenever you buy new gear (especially when it is as crucial as your monitoring set up) is listen to loads of stuff that you know really well; all those tunes that you've already heard a million times over and over again during the mix. Listen to stuff; all your favourite CDs as well. You should be able to hear the difference. If all your songs and CDs sound COMPLETELY different, then either you've set up the new gear wrong or (and this is probably the case) that Kenwood amp was seriously screwing with your sound and you got used to thinking that that was how things were supposed to sound. (the JBL's probably weren't that bad).

[Bat Head Sound]

Originally Posted by mistaD

Thanks for the reply! I was mixing on them for like 4 years! Do you know of any threads or sites that can show me how to acoustically treat my room.

I would just search for acoustic treatment here or google it. Other than that, you could call a company like intelligent acoustics or something. The might be able to help you, depending on your budget.

[mistaD]

thanks for the replies guys! Anyone have a comment on the converters? Or the sample rate?

[Kiwiburger]

If you aren't recording 24 bits already, you should. There are 16.7 million reasons why you should.

Sample rate is a case of diminishing returns, especially if you mix down to 44.1 kHz. Doubling the sample rate doubles the disk space and CPU resources you need. That's a huge problem for most systems, and the gains are fairly small. If you don't have excellent resampling algorithmns, the gains are even smaller or even negative. Some plugins and virtual instruments can sound worse at 96kHz.

I think simply getting used to completely different speakers is your main problem. Create some clips of your favorite commercial mixes, and listen to them often as a reference.

Acoustic treatment is always a good idea. Do that before you get too familiar with what you have.

Converters can never be too good. But if you like some warmth and distortion you might need some plugins or outboard to add that into your mix. Poor converters aren't the answer.

[mistaD]

Originally Posted by Kiwiburger

If you aren't recording 24 bits already, you should. There are 16.7 million reasons why you should.

Sample rate is a case of diminishing returns, especially if you mix down to 44.1 kHz. Doubling the sample rate doubles the disk space and CPU resources you need. That's a huge problem for most systems, and the gains are fairly small. If you don't have excellent resampling algorithmns, the gains are even smaller or even negative. Some plugins and virtual instruments can sound worse at 96kHz.

I think simply getting used to completely different speakers is your main problem. Create some clips of your favorite commercial mixes, and listen to them often as a reference.

Acoustic treatment is always a good idea. Do that before you get too familiar with what you have.

Converters can never be too good. But if you like some warmth and distortion you might need some plugins or outboard to add that into your mix. Poor converters aren't the answer.

Thanks for the reply. And yes im recording at 32 bit actually..... and like you said, the first thing i noticed was how harsh a lot of my Virtual instruments sounded at 96khz! Hmmm...... so it seems that everyones in agreement that its probably the monitoring setup and room acoustics? Can anyone chime in on which converters they'd use between the Mindprint DTC and RME Multiface? I could of sworn there was a great thread on here on room treatment but i can't find it anymore?

[TEMAS]

Can anyone chime in on which converters they'd use between the Mindprint DTC and RME Multiface?

I thought the mindprint has an optional A/D/A card? You probably can't go far wrong using that as your primary I/O. The Multiface only has s/pdif I/O, not AES/EBU which is what most high end converters use (HEDD, Lavry Blue, Rosetta, Benchmark, etc), therefore you would need an s/pdif - AES/EBU converter, if you choose one of these high end A/D/A converters.

I just found this on SOS site:

"The DTC makes a powerful mastering processor for shaping the overall tonal balance of a mix and applying gentle overall compression. I also found the ability to accommodate different sample rates between input and output handy — but be warned that the output word length cannot be changed from 24 bits. Outputting to a DAT or CD-R machine will result in nasty truncation distortion at the 16th bit level — a problem which Mindprint should address urgently."

I don't know whether this applies to you're set up. Full review here:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun0...ndprintdtc.asp