Nirvana - Drums on "Smells like teen spirit"

Blast9 · 18th February 2006, 10:00 AM

SO I was watching the "Classic albums" thing on BBC. Very cool!

"sound replacing" arguments notwithstanding... What are you hearing in the quality of the drums?

Specifically in the chorus, the kick on the "1" of each bar sounds different to the other syncopated kicks. Is this simply a ride, with the compressor bringing out the "nose" of the attack, i.e. emphasizing the click?

I love the way Dave Grohl hangs back just a few milliseconds on the "1". Really emphasises the groove of the chorus.

Also do you think we're hearing digital reverb or the room. Sounds gated to me? Maybe a gated reverb plus another reverb?

Also I believe I can hear a gated snare/hi-hat blended into the main drum sub-mix, especially on the "ello ello ello sections", maybe with a brighter reverb coming in?

Just observations... Probably run-of-the-mill stuff you guys do every day... Maybe it will make me make a better espresso one day!

Your thoughts?

jindrich · 18th February 2006, 11:25 AM

hey you know what?

the other day i bought the Jampack 3 from apple (ryhtm: drums and bass instruments and loops) and loaded the "indie" kit into logic.

well, the drums sound *exactly* like teen spirits, to the point that i coouldnt help myself and tracked this song. with just a little touch of a plate reverb, it sounds just like the record.

FWIW

84K · 18th February 2006, 11:30 AM

Hey Blast9,

I think like most other albums that have morphed into a classic status, I doubt they thought that much about it. They just did it. AW mixed that album and he usually rides the overheads in choruses. He has a million other tricks I'm sure, but I don't think it was nearly as calculated as it is analyzed.

Blast9 · 18th February 2006, 01:44 PM

Yeah.... agreed: AW must do so much "routine" stuff in the blink of an eye to get a mix going.

Guess I was just trying to identify the elements I'm hearing.

So what about the different kick drum attack/tone on the 1 of every bar of the chorus? Drummer's technique or mix trick?

RadioMoo · 18th February 2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

AW mixed that album and he usually rides the overheads in choruses.

Say more about this, please: you mean he pushes them up and slams the compressor, or he rides them up and down in time to the music, etc.?

crypticglobe · 18th February 2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

Say more about this, please: you mean he pushes them up and slams the compressor, or he rides them up and down in time to the music, etc.?

Dave Grohl>decent engineering=Great Drums

However, I do remember reading that the rented this HUGE P.A. system and set it up in a big room, and ran the drum tracks (after they had been recorded) into the P.A. They then mic'd the P.A. and the room and re-recorded it back in. They then blended those tracks in with the original tracks.

I am not positive it was this record, but I know they did that on one Nirvana record and I think it was this one.

Blast9 · 18th February 2006, 04:36 PM

Cool..... That was what they did on Superunknown too! Great idea!

RoundBadge · 18th February 2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioMoo

Say more about this, please: you mean he pushes them up and slams the compressor, or he rides them up and down in time to the music, etc.?

good old trick
I learned it watching Eddie Kramer one day on Simon Phillips track years back..
post compression fader rides on an SSL .
riding it on the "One" of every measure of the chorus and then on every quarter note at the end of the last chorus.subtle but effective none the less.

TornadoTed · 20th February 2006, 12:45 AM

It's imaterial really as Nirvana are only second to the Beatles for being the biggest bunch of 'poo pipe' ever.

If there were two bands I could drop a Nuke on!

Strange how the Beatles and Nirvana had the biggest two wank**s in musical history for their lead singers!

joelpatterson · 20th February 2006, 12:53 AM

That is strange. I wonder how that happened.

eyesore · 20th February 2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Dave Grohl>decent engineering=Great Drums

Really? Everything I've read said that AW was only hired because the record co. wasn't liking Butch Vig's mixes, and the problem was mainly with the drum sound, and mainly the room sound they tried to capture by creating a bass tunnel etc.. It took AW's samples and other mixing techniques to get the 'great drums' you refer to. So either there is something wrong with your statement, or Vig did less than 'decent engineering' in the case of this album.

Almost Human · 20th February 2006, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jindrich

hey you know what?

the other day i bought the Jampack 3 from apple (ryhtm: drums and bass instruments and loops) and loaded the "indie" kit into logic.

well, the drums sound *exactly* like teen spirits, to the point that i coouldnt help myself and tracked this song. with just a little touch of a plate reverb, it sounds just like the record.

FWIW

Nice...can you post a clip?

glitch · 20th February 2006, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Dave Grohl>decent engineering=Great Drums

However, I do remember reading that the rented this HUGE P.A. system and set it up in a big room, and ran the drum tracks (after they had been recorded) into the P.A. They then mic'd the P.A. and the room and re-recorded it back in. They then blended those tracks in with the original tracks.

I am not positive it was this record, but I know they did that on one Nirvana record and I think it was this one.

Nope, not on Nevermind. It seems like they did that on the original demo sessions for Nevermind at Vig's Smart Studios, but nothing came from those sessions except "Polly".

Drums were, IIRC, Tama Artstar kit with a 6.5" x 14" Ludwig Black Beauty snare. They built out a kick tunnel from an extra shell they had.

Room - U87's
OH's - KM84's
Cymbals Spot Mics- C414's
Toms - 421's
Snare Top - 57
Snare Bottom - 451
No Hat Mic
Kick - D12 and a FET47

All tracked into the Neves.

Wallace was brought in because Vig was exhausted and didn't feel he could finish with the flavor it deserved.

nlc201 · 20th February 2006, 02:53 AM

Apparently, AW got the job because on the list of prospective mixers (with AW's name at the bottom as he hadn't blown up yet) his name had a Slayer credit. Cobain thought that was cool so he got the job..... perhaps it's just urban legend.

EngineEars · 20th February 2006, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch

Drums were, IIRC, Tama Artstar kit with a 6.5" x 14" Ludwig Black Beauty snare. They built out a kick tunnel from an extra shell they had.

Drum Doctors tells me they used a Grestch kit with a Tama Bell Brass snare for that recording everytime I rent it from them.

bpatural · 20th February 2006, 03:03 AM

i heard they used the bell brass as well.
-brian

glitch · 20th February 2006, 03:19 AM

"The single most influential piece of gear Vig rented was the "Terminator". "That's the one piece that really stands out when you listen to the album," recalls Drum Doctor's, Ross Garfield. "It's a 6 ½" x 14" bell brass [Ludwig] Black Beauty drum that weighs a lot, at least five times heavier than any other snare drum I've got.""

Quote from a reputable Nirvana website.

Winey · 20th February 2006, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineEars

Drum Doctors tells me they used a Grestch kit with a Tama Bell Brass snare for that recording everytime I rent it from them.

I know we rented the same snare (used on some of nevermind) from Ross and it was REALLY HEAVY!
Don't remember it being a bell brass but it could have been.

Winey · 20th February 2006, 03:31 AM

Ummm. just read the above post. sorry

glitch · 20th February 2006, 03:43 AM

Just found this link:

http://www.getthatsound.com/song%20p...like_teen.html

Alexi · 20th February 2006, 04:06 AM

that site is awesome

Fleaman · 20th February 2006, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch

"The single most influential piece of gear Vig rented was the "Terminator". "That's the one piece that really stands out when you listen to the album," recalls Drum Doctor's, Ross Garfield. "It's a 6 ½" x 14" bell brass [Ludwig] Black Beauty drum that weighs a lot, at least five times heavier than any other snare drum I've got.""

The Black Beauty is not bell brass, it's stamped brass.

So it's either a Black Beauty or it's a Bell Brass, not both.

Bell Brass is much heaver than stamped brass.

I have a Bell Brass Pork Pie snare that is extremely heavy.

Fleaman

RoundBadge · 20th February 2006, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

It's imaterial really as Nirvana are only second to the Beatles for being the biggest bunch of 'poo pipe' ever.

If there were two bands I could drop a Nuke on!

Strange how the Beatles and Nirvana had the biggest two wank**s in musical history for their lead singers!

Joking right?
Uuuhh ,OK..And your opinion has what to do with the original question?
Otherwise Another brilliant contributor to the forum

thethrillfactor · 20th February 2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nlc201

Apparently, AW got the job because on the list of prospective mixers (with AW's name at the bottom as he hadn't blown up yet) his name had a Slayer credit. Cobain thought that was cool so he got the job..... perhaps it's just urban legend.

Well maybe not in the "Cali"rock world but here in NYC he was already a dance/hiphop club legend along with the Alge Bros.

He had already mixed some of Arthur Bakers legendary productions(Planet Rock and Planet Patrol),TKA's "Scars of Love",MTume's "Juicy Fruit", Nushooz "I can't wait",He remixed Madonna and the record that most people feel put rap on the main stream Run DMC and Aerosmith's "Walk this Way".

Not to mention the non main stream rock stuff like Sepultura and The Cult.

No matter what the genre AW can engineer or mix with the best of them.

RoundBadge · 20th February 2006, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineEars

Drum Doctors tells me they used a Grestch kit with a Brass snare for that recording everytime I rent it from them.

I used to rent the same one..
Now i own the same drum..Yeah,it's fukkin heavy..
great tuning range and loud as F*CK..
works great if you switch out the the heavy top diecast top hoop to a regular triple flange..gives you more ring/sustian.
great drum

Blast9 · 20th February 2006, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

It's imaterial really as Nirvana are only second to the Beatles for being the biggest bunch of 'poo pipe' ever.

If there were two bands I could drop a Nuke on!

Strange how the Beatles and Nirvana had the biggest two wank**s in musical history for their lead singers!

thanks TT

Now I understand what I'm hearing in the drum production

glitch · 20th February 2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleaman

The Black Beauty is not bell brass, it's stamped brass.

So it's either a Black Beauty or it's a Bell Brass, not both.

Bell Brass is much heaver than stamped brass.

I have a Bell Brass Pork Pie snare that is extremely heavy.

Fleaman

You could be correct. You should contact Drum Doctors and tell them they're wrong!

glitch · 20th February 2006, 09:25 AM

"The Terminator" snare drum is actually a super thick bell brass drum made by Zildjian and Noble&Cooley. It is NOT Tama. It is NOT a Black Beauty. The only one rentable is owned by the Drum Doctor and it's used on about every album from that era and is still heavily used today.

TornadoTed · 20th February 2006, 10:01 AM

Many apologies for my post last night everyone. I've always hated Nirvana with a passion and I was a bit drunk. I should have just kept my mouth (typing hand) shut. Sorry for interupting the thread with pointless ranting.

Blast9 · 20th February 2006, 12:13 PM

LOL!

Let me guess... you had a Nirvanan covers band in last night!

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18th February 2006, 10:00 AM	#1
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,675	Nirvana - Drums on "Smells like teen spirit" SO I was watching the "Classic albums" thing on BBC. Very cool! "sound replacing" arguments notwithstanding... What are you hearing in the quality of the drums? Specifically in the chorus, the kick on the "1" of each bar sounds different to the other syncopated kicks. Is this simply a ride, with the compressor bringing out the "nose" of the attack, i.e. emphasizing the click? I love the way Dave Grohl hangs back just a few milliseconds on the "1". Really emphasises the groove of the chorus. Also do you think we're hearing digital reverb or the room. Sounds gated to me? Maybe a gated reverb plus another reverb? Also I believe I can hear a gated snare/hi-hat blended into the main drum sub-mix, especially on the "ello ello ello sections", maybe with a brighter reverb coming in? Just observations... Probably run-of-the-mill stuff you guys do every day... Maybe it will make me make a better espresso one day! Your thoughts? __________________ :: my band is called protoangel [size="1"]. My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Digi 002 + PTLE, Addictive Drums

18th February 2006, 01:44 PM	#4
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,675	Yeah.... agreed: AW must do so much "routine" stuff in the blink of an eye to get a mix going. Guess I was just trying to identify the elements I'm hearing. So what about the different kick drum attack/tone on the 1 of every bar of the chorus? Drummer's technique or mix trick? __________________ :: my band is called protoangel [size="1"]. My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Digi 002 + PTLE, Addictive Drums

18th February 2006, 04:36 PM	#7
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,675	Cool..... That was what they did on Superunknown too! Great idea! __________________ :: my band is called protoangel [size="1"]. My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Digi 002 + PTLE, Addictive Drums

20th February 2006, 12:45 AM	#9
TornadoTed Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 807	It's imaterial really as Nirvana are only second to the Beatles for being the biggest bunch of 'poo pipe' ever. If there were two bands I could drop a Nuke on! Strange how the Beatles and Nirvana had the biggest two wank**s in musical history for their lead singers! __________________ Ed Lewis Giant Wafer Studios, UK www.giantwafer.com www.myspace.com/giantwaferstudios

18th February 2006, 11:25 AM	#2
jindrich Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Palma+Stuttgart Posts: 732	hey you know what? the other day i bought the Jampack 3 from apple (ryhtm: drums and bass instruments and loops) and loaded the "indie" kit into logic. well, the drums sound exactly like teen spirits, to the point that i coouldnt help myself and tracked this song. with just a little touch of a plate reverb, it sounds just like the record. FWIW

18th February 2006, 11:30 AM	#3
84K Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: right coast Posts: 3,729	Hey Blast9, I think like most other albums that have morphed into a classic status, I doubt they thought that much about it. They just did it. AW mixed that album and he usually rides the overheads in choruses. He has a million other tricks I'm sure, but I don't think it was nearly as calculated as it is analyzed.

20th February 2006, 12:53 AM	#10
joelpatterson Lives for gear Join Date: May 2005 Location: Albany, New York Posts: 3,250	That is strange. I wonder how that happened. __________________ Mountaintop Studios ~the peak of perfection~ Petersburgh NY 12138 mountaintop@taconic.net

20th February 2006, 02:53 AM	#14
nlc201 Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 447	Apparently, AW got the job because on the list of prospective mixers (with AW's name at the bottom as he hadn't blown up yet) his name had a Slayer credit. Cobain thought that was cool so he got the job..... perhaps it's just urban legend.

20th February 2006, 03:03 AM	#16
bpatural Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 440	i heard they used the bell brass as well. -brian

20th February 2006, 03:19 AM	#17
glitch Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,264	"The single most influential piece of gear Vig rented was the "Terminator". "That's the one piece that really stands out when you listen to the album," recalls Drum Doctor's, Ross Garfield. "It's a 6 ½" x 14" bell brass [Ludwig] Black Beauty drum that weighs a lot, at least five times heavier than any other snare drum I've got."" Quote from a reputable Nirvana website.

20th February 2006, 03:31 AM	#19
Winey Gear addict Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 464	Ummm. just read the above post. sorry

20th February 2006, 03:43 AM	#20
glitch Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,264	Just found this link: http://www.getthatsound.com/song%20p...like_teen.html

20th February 2006, 04:06 AM	#21
Alexi Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hamburg Posts: 1,051	that site is awesome __________________ Vintage 19th and 20th century physics is fun! Karl

20th February 2006, 09:25 AM	#28
glitch Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,264	Definitive Snare Drum Answer "The Terminator" snare drum is actually a super thick bell brass drum made by Zildjian and Noble&Cooley. It is NOT Tama. It is NOT a Black Beauty. The only one rentable is owned by the Drum Doctor and it's used on about every album from that era and is still heavily used today.

20th February 2006, 10:01 AM	#29
TornadoTed Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 807	Many apologies for my post last night everyone. I've always hated Nirvana with a passion and I was a bit drunk. I should have just kept my mouth (typing hand) shut. Sorry for interupting the thread with pointless ranting. __________________ Ed Lewis Giant Wafer Studios, UK www.giantwafer.com www.myspace.com/giantwaferstudios

20th February 2006, 12:13 PM	#30
Blast9 Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: London Posts: 2,675	LOL! Let me guess... you had a Nirvanan covers band in last night! __________________ :: my band is called protoangel [size="1"]. My guitars: Atkin OM (sitka spruce top walnut back: sweet mids):: Atkin Small Jumbo (cedar top, rosewood back: big bottom, sparkly top):: Jap Tele with fat frets (rude and fat):: . My amps: 1973 Hiwatt DR504::Framus Dragon ... Latest purchases Kel Audio HM-2d TC Electronic Nova System, Chameleon Labs 7602 Digi 002 + PTLE, Addictive Drums

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