who GETS BY with 8in and 8 out for converters?

[sadworld]

i'm used to 16in and 16 out so i've never had an issue but i'd like to upgrade my converters to high end stuff... maybe rosetta 800. i can only afford one at the moment. just wondering who records a live drum kit and gets by with 8in and 8out adda? how do you work? do you premix drums on the way out to your mixer? usually i'll need the 8outs for drums but i'm just trying to see if theres a way i can do this upgrade and still be able to work....if theres a way around this i'm not thinking of, please share. thanks. matt.

[hourglass]

Originally Posted by sadworld

i'm used to 16in and 16 out so i've never had an issue but i'd like to upgrade my converters to high end stuff... maybe rosetta 800. i can only afford one at the moment. just wondering who records a live drum kit and gets by with 8in and 8out adda? how do you work? do you premix drums on the way out to your mixer? usually i'll need the 8outs for drums but i'm just trying to see if theres a way i can do this upgrade and still be able to work....if theres a way around this i'm not thinking of, please share. thanks. matt.

Going in:

If you're confident with your skills you can sub-mix the toms to a stereo pair and get away with only 8 channels... You might need to sub-mix the kick mics and snare mics if you're using inside/outside or top/bottom mics. 8 channels gets you stereo overheads, stereo toms, stereo room plus kick and snare... Depending on the size of your room, you might sacrifice the room mics for Hat/ride or run separate channels for your kick & snare setups if you're multi-micing them.

It always helps if you don't have to track any other keepers at the same time - so the band either has to know their shit or else track a scratch guitar to a click first.

Going out:

I don't see a need for a ton of drum channels coming out. If your DAW can't sum a couple of tom tracks to stereo without chewing up the imaging then you need something better...

There was a tape-op article about sub-mix compression with Michael Brauer. Anyhow, his method with four compression groups on an SSL is similar to the way I've always grouped stuff when I only have 8 outputs.

Submix your stuff in the box so it's all of similar frequencies - outs 1 & 2 are usually my drums, outs 2 & 3 are guitars and keys, out 4 vox, out 5 bass, outs 7 & 8 are usually reserved for stuff that comes straight through the box w/o a whole lot of compression or processing - drum overheads, aux returns (cuz the signal is effected, but clean thru the DAW...)

Of course, 16 channels out always gives you more flexibility, but you can certainly work with 8.

Another thing to consider (hold your ears, uber sluts...) is the ADA-8000. The mic pre's suck, but the rest of the box is OK. In a pinch it's a super way to add 8 channels of output - in the tests we did the DA on the Behringer was cleaner than the MOTU stuff we used for our standard setup, and blew the Digi002 DA converters out of the water.

ryan

[Reggie Love]

I get by with 16 In / 8 Out although I don't have much need for huge amount of external summing anymore. I guess it really depends on you application and how happy you are hanging your essential quality outboard such as 'verb off of spare digital I/O to keep other channels clear for duty.

[drummin4christ]

I get by with 8in and 8out all the time. That doesn't mean I like it, but money sets me back. I also track instruments seperatly. Also not a fan of, but it gets me by until I upgrade.

[AdamJay]

whats your budget for a converter???

a Lynx Aurora 16 is only a few hundred more than the Rosetta 800.
this gives you 16 in and out. i personally prefer the sound of the Aurora's over the Rosettas.

[BobSchwenkler]

For the way I record, 8 or 9 channels dedicated to drums is about what I normally have available. The rest usually go to guitars and bass. I have a total of 12 mic inputs currently, and I get by. For some stuff, you only need four inputs for drums. But when I need to record something that sounds more modern, that is where the limitation really makes itself felt. After setting up a stereo pair for the room, close micing can be really limited to the basics.

If you are used to 16i/o, you may find yourself frustrated with only 8. If I had only eight to do everything with (including live tracking) I would be pulling my hair out. I have just barely enough to get by in a semi-acceptable manner as it is.

I have never heard it, but if i were in your spot, I would check out the Lynx.

[TornadoTed]

I got a Rosetta 800 on Saturday and tracked a band with it an hour after it arrived in the post! I managed to get 22 tracks in one song with every AD and DA done using 1 Rosetta 800! I have a MOTU 2408 MkIII with 24 ADAT in's and out's connected to the desk and the Rosetta.

Incidently I went for the Rosetta over the AD16x as it has 2 ADAT out's. I sent one to the PC and the other to the Mackie D8b for low latency monitoring. I had 8 of my outboard Mic Pre-amps connected to the Rosetta 800 and the other 8 to the Mackie D8b's analogue inputs (pretty sh*ty converters but improved a lot by the Big Ben) and then sent out to the MOTU via the ADAT out's. The Mackie D8b, the Rosetta 800 and the MOTU 2408 MkIII were all synced with the Big Ben.


1. I recorded Stereo Overheads, HH, Ride, Bass DI and 2 Guitar DI's with the Rosetta. I recorded the Snare, Kick, Toms and Scratch Vocals using the converters in my Mackie D8b.

2. I sent the DI's out through the Rosetta DA and re-amped the Bass and Guitars and recorded them back through the Rosetta.

3. I then recorded 10 samples each of the Kick (3 mics, D112 inside and a U87 and home made Sub Kick outside), Snare (2 mics top and bottom) and Toms through the Rosetta and used Drumagog to replace the D8b converted Kick, Snare and Toms with the samples. I do this quite often recently as I use Drumagog as a 'super noise gate' using the Kick, Snare and Tom mics to trigger clean samples of those drums. Also if need be I can layer the drums with other samples easily this way as I do a lot of heavy rock, metal stuff which sometimes calls for that method.

4. I then tracked Vocals, Backing Vocals and extra Guitars through the Rosetta.



There was a little bit of unplugging and changing around but no more than trying different Mic Pre-Amps to find the right tone really. All in all it took 7 hours to record 4 songs including all the overdubs. They are a good band and really tight so they nailed most things within 3 takes. It took 2 hours to do the editing and drum replacing and 4 hours to mix it. It was all mixed ITB and sent out via the Rosetta DA to a Studer A810 1/4" tape machine and then back in to the computer for basic 'mastering'.

Done and sounding great, I'm well impressed with the Rosetta. It's a massive step up from the converters in the D8b. The clarity is excellent and the sounstage huge compared to using just the D8b. I intend to get another 2 Rosetta's for 24 i/o but this method worked quickly and easily so I'm in no rush to get into debt to get them, I'll wait until I have the cash spare! The band left chuffed to bits with a 4 track demo for about £300.

[sadworld]

thanks fellas,

let me give you a little more detail of my setup.... i've got midgrade converters now (frontier designs tangos). i also have a 32 channel soundcraft ghost that i use for tracking and for mixing. i use mostly high end outboard mic pres and use the channels in the ghost for monitoring them and what i have left that can't get a outboard pre, i use the the ghosts pre's. i track drums first, then everything else seperately until all the tracks are layed. i will then run out of the tangos into the ghost so i can run it like live sound, taking advantage of the outboard gear i got and being able to mult different drum groups is nice too. eq and stuff too in nice on the ghost. i then run into the tangos again for a stereo mixdown. if i do get the new converters, i could keep one of my tangos for the extra outs. i'd use it for bass guitars and vox. i'd probably run everything at 48khz since that is the best the tangos will do for sample rate. wouldn't that be like downgrading the high end converters to run them on a lower sample rate with the tangos? oh, i also have a digi 96/52 hammerfall soundcard..... thanks again, matt.

[Tibbon]

I'm mainly just recording myself. Truthfully I could get away with two analogue i/os most of the time as long as i had spdif for a few effects as inserts. I have a Digi002R so I have more than I need truthfully.

Looking at a Rosetta 200....

[u b k]

i only ever need 3 or 4 mics on the kit, but that's because i prefer the 'kit-as-instrument' vibe. 8 in is plenty for me.

8-out, however, is constricting. i have 8 channels now, and i eagerly await the arrival of my 8x mytek d/a. unfortunately, it won't be here until i order it, and that won't be anytime soon. fortunately, i remain eager, because it feels better that way.


gregoire
del ubik