Drum Micing

[Louis Richner]

You don’t place a mic according to the kick drum. You have to use the 3:1 rule.
When you place the first mic, place it over your highest cymbal.
There are many ways to do this, but as a starting reference, try measuring two drum sticks vertically to measure the height of the first mic. To get a pretty cymbal sound, aim the diaphragm towards to edge of the cymbal.
Now do the same with the other side and make sure you are using the 3:1 rule.

Here’s a picture:

[affe110]

Hate to sound like a bitch but I use whatever that works for the given situation. Sometimes I do it by the rules, sometimes I use a mono overhead, Glyn Johns, sometimes I don't even use the OH in the final mix.

[Studdy]

Thanks for your response Louis, sick setup dude!

My question again is in you photo your overheads are not equal distance from the overheads is not following a 3 to 1 rule on the individual drums themselves. (example tom is 6ft from overhead 1, and 10 ft from overhead 2.) Im not saying it doesnt sound amazing Im just wondering why there is no need for equal or 3 to 1 spacing. I hope my question is making sense.

Thanks Again Louis!

[Studdy]

question for AFFA110,

So on every project do you try the drum mics in every method possible and pick which one fits the project best? Or do you use certain methods on certain styles? If you were using a spaced pair where you would put the microphones generally? I just thought it would be interesting to discuss overheads.

Thanks

[recordinghopkins]

when close micing the entire kit, I approach overheads as if they are only cymbal mics. I'll usually go with spaced omnis but I like to put them further away from the player, over, or even beyond the far edges of the cymbals. I'll fine tune the placement so that I have a nice left/right crash thing happening, snare image be damned, then high pass them. The full bodied whole kit sound is easily re-gained with one or two room mics, and the snare top and bottom mics can be brought up a bit more, centering the snare in the mix.

Otherwise, it's Glyn Johns for me. thumbsup

[Jesse Miller]

Originally Posted by recordinghopkins

when close micing the entire kit, I approach overheads as if they are only cymbal mics. I'll usually go with spaced omnis but I like to put them further away from the player, over, or even beyond the far edges of the cymbals. I'll fine tune the placement so that I have a nice left/right crash thing happening, snare image be damned, then high pass them. The full bodied whole kit sound is easily re-gained with one or two room mics, and the snare top and bottom mics can be brought up a bit more, centering the snare in the mix.

Otherwise, it's Glyn Johns for me. thumbsup

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by Studdy

...your overheads are not equal distance from the overheads is not following a 3 to 1 rule on the individual drums themselves. (example tom is 6ft from overhead 1, and 10 ft from overhead 2.) ..

Oops.

[Louis Richner]

Sorry it took me time to respond. The picture is at a bad angle, but I used 14 microphones on the kit. I always stick to the 3:1 rule to help with phase, but keep in mind that drums are always going to have phase; it’s psychics. Now if you are professionally recording, always always always have ambient/room mics.
This helps capture the sound of the kit and the room. You can’t see it, but I used an ORTF setup behind the drums and an M/S technique in front (When I took the picture, the setup wasn’t 100% finished.)
In the end of the day, if it sounds good, it sounds good and that’s all that matters.
Try not to stick 100% to the book and have fun with it.

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by Louis Richner

... keep in mind that drums are always going to have phase; it’s psychics.

Close, but no cigar. I can elaborate more if necessary, but phase, in the manner I think you are referring to, describes a point in the cycle of a waveform and is (for all but the very lowest audible frequencies) inaudible. It's only when multiple waves intersect at varying degrees in their cycles that we hear it's effect, whether comb filtering, summation, or complete cancellation. Phase is not something that an instrument has or doesn't have, phase only describes the behavior of a waveform.

As for being psychic, my drums definitely are!

thumbsup

Originally Posted by Louis Richner

Now if you are professionally recording, always always always have ambient/room mics.

I disagree. I don't know how many times I have ditched the room mics in mix... sometimes they just aren't called for. On the other hand, sometimes I ditch all but the room and kick mics, but this hard and fast rule of always needing room mics if you are professionally recording is nonsense. I don't mean to pick on you there Louis.

The only real rules for pro level drum recording are find a great drummer, great drums (with new heads, tuned properly), and a great room. From there, getting great sounds on tape or disk is child's play.

[ARIEL]

For metal and hard rock - I always just use 2 Overhead mics - usually about 2-3 feet above the left side cymbals and right side . Totally ignoring the snare and Kick drum as I always cut out the low end and mid frequencies . I barely have any room mixed in and always a tighter room for me I will close mic the hat and ride if that is neede in the mix , sometimes the hat will be so loud it will becaptured by the crash mics . Here is an example of just two OH mics - the at 4041's , I have no eq on them except a low cut - no hi end boost - great mics for that . I had just a touch of room probably only at 25% vs the OH's using AT4050's for room . go to Drum Samples for Metal | Invictus Audio | Metal Drum Samples to hear , it is metal but will give you an idea of the technique i use with very little room in it ( the cymbals that is)

[studjo]

my 0.2 cents

if you don't wanna have a phase mess in your overheads you'd have to use a coincident mic technique ... if it's artistically desireable or not is another can of worms.

regarding drum room mics - if it's professionally recorded and I don't recieve drum room mics I question at least the professionality of the engineer. It doesn't mean you have to use em but at least provide that stuff if you don't mix it yourself ...

[Eganmedia]

Originally Posted by Louis Richner

I always stick to the 3:1 rule to help with phase, but keep in mind that drums are always going to have phase; it’s psychics.

So that's where the ghost notes in my drum recordings are coming from!

[void1985]

Check out these OH mics.

(from the latest Melechesh album recordings)





I recorded an EP with the same drummer (different studio) using a different setup of mics, but would like to try the OH's placed like this.

[Studdy]

Void 1985, amazing looking stuff man! If you dont mind me asking, you are using akg's on the overheads at the cymbals? Do you consider their placement with the drums as well or just put them where the cymbals sound good? Is that a mono room behind the set? Are you placing the mic a certain distance with the overheads or other mics or just where it sounds good? Are you placing it to pick up the entire kit and then crushing with compression?

Awesome Stuff Void1985.

Thanks!

[Studdy]

Ariel, thank you for your response.

So when you position your overheads you pretend the the kick, snare and toms dont even exist? You just go for a great cymbal sound?

When hi passing are you around 400hz mark?
Do you generally mic the ride for the top or bottom. If bottom do you usually invert the phase?

Thanks man!

[giraffe]

Originally Posted by Studdy

Ariel, thank you for your response.

So when you position your overheads you pretend the the kick, snare and toms dont even exist? You just go for a great cymbal sound?

When hi passing are you around 400hz mark?
Do you generally mic the ride for the top or bottom. If bottom do you usually invert the phase?

Thanks man!

with a spaced pair something will always be out, to a lesser or greater extent.
(barring a very happy accident involving both the drummers set up and your micing technique)
think about it, if any one instrument in a drum set up is in phase what is the likely hood that all the other pieces are in phase, even though their spatial relation to the mics is different?
very little chance of that.

if your just dying to have everything in phase use m/s or xy or something like that....

but i just use a spaced pair mostly (like most of you) and you have to pick your battle. like the origional poster i aim for the snare. (don't worry about the kick so much)

as far as hi-pass @ 400hz. that works if that's what you want. i often don't though, unless i hear a reason for it.

ride cymbal..... *if* i mic it, i usually do it from the top because i want the stick sound. as far as phase, just do your best, play with your phase flip and positioning and see if things are changing.
probably your overheads will be more then 3 time the distance from your ride then your ride mic is and phasing will not be very bad..... that is not to say nonexistent.

[giraffe]

Originally Posted by Louis Richner

You don’t place a mic according to the kick drum. You have to use the 3:1 rule.
When you place the first mic, place it over your highest cymbal.
There are many ways to do this, but as a starting reference, try measuring two drum sticks vertically to measure the height of the first mic. To get a pretty cymbal sound, aim the diaphragm towards to edge of the cymbal.
Now do the same with the other side and make sure you are using the 3:1 rule.

Here’s a picture:

if that snare is in phase it's just a happy accident, but it will almost certainly be louder in one side then the other. YMMV.

[Fluner]

I keep my overheads as close as possible........ (no more than a foot higher than my highest cymbal). I don't close mic toms, so my OHs are responsible for my tom sound too.

mic placement!!!!
I do minimal/no volume/eq adjustments to my drum tracks later in the mix... I also never throw out any whole tracks... each mic plays a major role in the drum sound...... when all mics are used, there is equilibrium.. why throw that balance out the window by removing an entire track? If you had to throw the track out, it was probably a poorly placed mic to begin w.........

my snare drum is on my left..... so I put a mic on my right side over my shoulder to balance out the snare image and pickup more floor tom (recorderman?). This makes for a nice wide/phat snare sound.

[Sigma]

check out my video..LOLZ!

[vinski]

Originally Posted by recordinghopkins

....it's Glyn Johns for me. thumbsup

This, and more of this!!!

[recordinghopkins]

Yay for more Glyn Johns love

[recordinghopkins]

Originally Posted by Fluner

I do minimal/no volume/eq adjustments to my drum tracks later in the mix... I also never throw out any whole tracks... each mic plays a major role in the drum sound...... when all mics are used, there is equilibrium.. why throw that balance out the window by removing an entire track? If you had to throw the track out, it was probably a poorly placed mic to begin w.........

Hey Fluner,
I wasn't suggesting that you would have to throw out tracks. It's very possible that the mics were expertly placed and sound amazing, but achieve results that become counterproductive to the whole of the song as it develops it's own character. Have you ever met a producer that never changed their mind on anything?
As I suggested with using only kick and room mics, this would be an example of a creative decision, not a corrective one. Or perhaps a hat mic was recorded simply to make pocketing the tracks easier, but will not make it in the final mix...

[Hans Island]

can i just ask... what exactly is the 3:1 rule?

[MicDaddy]

Originally Posted by Hans Island

can i just ask... what exactly is the 3:1 rule?

Not sure, I never use it in the studio...

when working live situations, Lou Burroughs says a 3:1 rule is when any given microphone will be at least 3 times the distance from any other microphone relative to the sound source. edit: different rule for feedback

edit me where necessary

[thejwoshow]

My setup is usually pretty simple. I try not to overcomplicate things. Pick a spot halfway in between the Snare and kick. Place your overheads an equal distance from that spot. One close room mic,low to the ground. One room far room mic as high as I can go. If it sounds like it's phasing,play around until you minimize it. If it doesn't sound like it,it's not . Phase meters are great,but some people get to hung up on them. I'll see if I can find some pics of setups for examples.

[thejwoshow]

Originally Posted by MicDaddy

Not sure, I never use it in the studio...

when working live situations, Lou Burroughs says a 3:1 rule is when any given microphone will be at least 3 times the distance from any other microphone relative to the sound source. This was to eliminate potential for feedback as I understood.

edit me where necessary

It's also to reduce phasing. 3 times the distance to the source is generally how fast the sound travels (Approx 1,200 FPS).

[bigbone]

Originally Posted by Sigma

check out my video..LOLZ!

I would love to take a look at your video, were can i see it.....

Thank you

[doorknocker]

As for the 3-1 rule, be aware that a mic never just picks up the direct sound but also reflections. Seems obvious but it's something many 'how-to' tutorials totally ignore. Every room is different and every drummer is different.

Of course we all should be careful about mic placement but I'm constantly amazed how big a difference the player makes. The way somebody hits a drum has not only an influence on the tone itself (so many drummers only seem to be able to produce upper midrange and I don't mean just cymbals) but also how the room reacts and the kind of reflections you get.

I definitely only use mics that I at least plan to use in the mix. Very rarely a hi-hat for me in my room. 'Covering all the options' will only make the whole process longer so don't be afraid to COMMIT!

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by Hans Island

can i just ask... what exactly is the 3:1 rule?

It is a ratio for distance separation to cause enough attenuation of cross bleed between two or more mics picking up separate sounds, so that the phase effects are not generally audible.
It's primarily a starting point guideline as the things being miced need to be of similar loudness, and mics similarly sensitive for it to pan out.