to console or not to console

[Ramchandra]

I'm thinking about buying a console for a studio I am building. I talked to Goeff Daking and he is building some now and should be finished around June. This thing has comps on every channel!!!!!!

He said under it would be under 50. Or I could go crazy and by a bunch of crazy mic pres and such.

Pros: Its a console and I can work the way I like to. And of course I'm going to buy outboard comps and eqs.

Cons: Do freelance engineers want a console and one flavor of pre or a whole smorgasbord of them?

I Know I would rather work with an analog console, but I have to keep in mind that I want other engineers to want to work here. And they might want your (now typical) whole lota everything.

Is basing the whole studio off the console a stupid thing to do in my situation?

This is seriously one of the greatest dilemmas I've ever had in my life.

[jon_waite]

I would much rather have a console to have my grubby little fingers on.

Jon
JB Audio

[Snatchman]

Dang...Wish I had your delimma.....It'll be a no-brainer for me..The quality of Geoff's consoles would make choosing outboard pres less detrimental (IMHO..)..I guess it would depend on whether you are gonna be tracking/mixing on the console or just using it as a "summing box"..?..Good luck..

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by ralary

I would go with console,good luck

+1. Console definitely.

[skythemusic]

Daking console? Send it here......

[jon_waite]

Originally Posted by skythemusic

Daking console? Send it here......

+1 what he said

[Curve Dominant]

Originally Posted by Ramchandra

Is basing the whole studio off the console a stupid thing to do in my situation?

It's a stupid thing to do in any situation.

Any studio is only as good as (in the following order):
1. Its chief engineer & his/her ability to manage people and projects
2. the fundamental reliability of the basic recording signal paths
3. the sound of the cutting room
4. the ergonomics of the control room
5. #1's ability to procure media/industry contacts if your act is ready for primetime (you could easily bump this one up a few steps)
6. Location
7... we could go on and on, but seriously, nobody these days really gives a rat's you-know-what about your console. So many people have been producing and mixing Grammy-winning hits ITB over the past... decade? Whew! And you're fetishizing over a CONSOLE?

If you're so hooked on the fetish for the console, buy the console. But don't delude yourself that you're buying it as a cost-effective business decision. You're not.

YMMV

[Ramchandra]

Originally Posted by Curve Dominant

It's a stupid thing to do in any situation.

Any studio is only as good as (in the following order):
1. Its chief engineer & his/her ability to manage people and projects
2. the fundamental reliability of the basic recording signal paths
3. the sound of the cutting room
4. the ergonomics of the control room
5. #1's ability to procure media/industry contacts if your act is ready for primetime (you could easily bump this one up a few steps)
6. Location
7... we could go on and on, but seriously, nobody these days really gives a rat's you-know-what about your console. So many people have been producing and mixing Grammy-winning hits ITB over the past... decade? Whew! And you're fetishizing over a CONSOLE?

If you're so hooked on the fetish for the console, buy the console. But don't delude yourself that you're buying it as a cost-effective business decision. You're not.

YMMV

I guess I shouldn't have said "whole studio" I should have said outboard pres or console.

We have got a great space in a good location with really talented hard working engineers ready to go. I would never buy a console and put it in my bedroom and expect people would want to record in my room just because there is a huge board with a bunch of knobs in it.

We got the whole package in this new space. now I'm just wanting to put the icing on the cake. And I agree, after considering your post, that it probably doesn't make a difference in this day and age if you have a console or not. It just maters that your studio is firing on all cylinders.

Thanks for your reply.

[ray_subsonic]

If you want to work on a console, that's what counts first and foremost. That is the driver.

Originally Posted by Ramchandra

He said it would be under 50.

Assuming you have a decent cashflow and have the funds to ride through 1-3 years of operation costs, or you have some kind of clientele network already established, then it's probably a good choice. If you're borrowing money to fund this, be careful and do figures. It's a pretty precarious business right now as I'm sure you'd understand.

I'm guessing The Daking is a unique choice for a boutique operation (if it's a small project based studio). Great for tracking and small hybrid mixing projects. The "Icing on The Cake" as you put it. Although I wouldn't necessarily count on outside engineers bringing projects to your facility unless there are a lot of of other competitive edge's that you can offer them.

Good Luck with your choice.

Cheers

[lobsterinn]

As someone who occasionally freelances, I would find the console more attractive, but I would want at least a few other preamp choices scattered about. A couple pairs of the usual suspects would go a long way towards making the place a crowd-pleaser.

I have to echo that the console / outboard pre thing is definitely a much smaller consideration than the rooms themselves. Actually, the availability of good food in the neighborhood can make more impact on a project sometimes...

[Bassmankr]

Buy used and you can do both, used consoles are going for 10 cents on the dollar. A good Neotek is probably less than $12k and I don't think you will spend over $38k on mic pres with the remainder of the budget. Buying "Used" is not a dirty word to engineers, if you want to pick up anything vintage, it's going to be used and we all know how crappy vintage studio gear is LOL.

[chris@theblue]

There is so much function in all aspects of a desk.
For this engineer it is the smartest way to work.
Your connected to your sessions, eq's, fader rides, Cue's. . .
Head in the game.
Any analog engineer could walk in and work on your desk.
patch-bay, inserts, analog bla bla bla

Get the desk.

Unless you think it is a magic bullet and will automatically bring in clients.

C

got to go mix Track 03-02 bass down 3db. harder on the shelf little less fader, HP off of the organ

[spice house]

In this market you can get an amazing used console for a hell of a lot less than that

[Ramchandra]

I am leaning towards a used side car now something with twelve channels that I could also use for cue mixes.

[paul999]

In my opinion the console is the heart of the studio. Sure mixes happen ITB a lot but if you want engineers in your studio they will track with great outboard and then take the tracks home to mix ITB. Honestly I'd be looking at a used SSL for 50k or less.

[travis.brockway]

The studio where I work is building a new studio, and before this week, I have been a proponent of selling the Neve console we have and getting a bunch of pres and a D-control. We have a 64 input summing amp with 5 busses - Neve, API, Flickenger, Jensen 990 and a tube bus, so I'm not worried about mixing ITB. The reason for my opinion is because the ol' console is a lot of overhead - maintenance, electric bill, etc., and I'm limited to flying fader automation.

I'm in the middle of a session right now where we're tracking using 19 channels of uh-mazing outboard pres (1073s, 1084s, 1090s, 1272s, APIs, 610s, an X73, CL 7602, and ADL600). The rest of the inputs are going through the console, and it all sounds fantastic. Where necessary, some inputs are routed through the line in's on the console for channel EQ, and we have more inputs than converter channels, so the console is bussing and line switching. I'm probably using 30 inputs (line and/or mic) on the console in addition to the outboard preamps.

If I didn't have a console I would have been hosed in this situation, or would have needed a line mixer, more pres, more A/D conversion, a bunch of EQ, etc.

So, now I'm torn. When I'm mixing, I want a d-control. When I'm tracking, I want a console. Unfortunately, we can't afford to make studio B as cool as A, so I can't really have a great tracking room and a great mixing room. When I'm having trouble with the console I'm like frgdbh!@#$! Sell this friggin thing!!!! When I hear the console working well I get all nostalgic and think ahhh I love harmonics.

If your situation is anything like mine, I think you have to ask yourself what is most important to you. Mixing or tracking. If the bands you're tracking are going to take it to another mix engineer anyway (like most label projects), I might opt for the console. If most of your projects are all in house, I would think very carefully about what you're giving up as far as bussing to tape, extra line inputs, channel eq, etc. by not using a console.

Hope this helps! It's been therapeutic for me!