Can you make a snare drum sound like it's being hit harder?

[Matt Grondin]

So this record I'm working on right now... it was the drummer's first time in the studio... enough said. Actually, to be fair, he did a good job, but being that it's a rock band, he's not hitting the snare drum nearly hard enough to get that in your face rock sound... I think he might have been playing a little timidly, or maybe that's just his style. Regardless, the snare's a bit weak, and I know it's not the drum itself because it's my badass vintage Gretsch snare, with an e22s and API pre, so it should rock. Any thoughts?

[Kris]

I got this sweet sample I could loan you...

[dtucker]

SPL Transient Designer!! It's great for that.

[allencollins]

add a limiter to the chain and slam it hard

[Matt Grondin]

Yeah, those Transient Designer things are cool from what I've heard... I needs to get one. No Sound Replacer for me, please... thanks though Kris. If they're fine with it, I'm fine with it... I'll probably just compress the hell out of it.

[Kris]

You know I was kidding

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by dobby12

If they're fine with it, I'm fine with it... I'll probably just compress the hell out of it.

1. You KNOW you'll never be fine with it.

2. I personally hate over-compressed choked snares. I mean, I know it's all the rage an' stuff but that sound makes me wanna, like, puke.

I'd maybe try triggering some ambience off of it and getting that to explode.

And why not augment INSTEAD of replace? Just a question.

But those wet-noddle drummers... been there done that.

Having said that, I remember speaking to some pretty highly respected (and kickass) NY session guy and he tried to explain why it wasn't always the size of the drum and how hard you hit it but some other 'stuff' that made it big and loud.

I don't know, he kinda lost me trying to explain how a small kik can actually sound louder than a big ki... Zzzzzz

I know I know, I shoulda paid more attention...

R.

[swankdoc]

You can always re-amp.

Or the old school trick of sending the current snare track to a small speaker (4"), place that face down onto a snare tuned pretty tightly, and track the new 'whack' that will give you. With practice, you can get something useful.

I agree, stay away from the choke the hell out of it snare. puke.

[Faderjockey]

I hate super compressed snares too..

But sometimes when I don't want to sound replace...I'll just make a copy of that snare track..put it on it's on track. Gate it...then distort it some..Make it sound tougher.

I'll sneak that under the other snare and it adds a beefiness to it.... May work...Not all tricks work. But it's good to try a bunch of them to see what's the best for the snare you have in front of you.

I do the speaker trick more when I'm mixing stuff I didn't track..And I need bottom rattle or more shell sound. But I never can make it sound like it's hit hard with the speaker thing.

Combo of compression dbx160VU work well...or distressors for making it crack..But with the distorted track under it..It sounds a little tougher.

I hate when guys are so whimmpy with hits in a rock band. My drummer is my drum tech on most sessions. We see guys come in and talk all kinds of stuff...Then when they sit down it's like I can talk over them....This is rock. Not a school asemebly.

[Jules]

SPL Transient Designer or Sony TransMod plug in are both good for that..

[junior]

Originally Posted by Jules

SPL Transient Designer or Sony TransMod plug in are both good for that..

or, maybe try dominion if you're on a pc...

[Matt Grondin]

Originally Posted by silverdisk

I dont have an SPL either, but using 2 RCL's can be decent, one in

compress mode, probably opto/ smooth,......

one in UPWARD expander mode, .80 or so, mess with the attacks and release ,


like others said, it works even better on a mic that has some ambience with it, or

drum buss.

heres some not too hot drums i tried this on

Holy shit, you're not kidding... those drums are rough!

[polimorfos]

From my experience, usually the problem is that the drummer is not hitting the drum consistently enough to get an even response and good tone - more than how hard he is hitting the drum. Once you have a good, consistant tone at the source - then you can play around with different mics, compression, etc.

I remember recording Steve Gadd years ago. Though he is not a heavy hitting rock drummer (he has a relatively light touch), it was so easy to get a drum sound with him. He was hitting the snare pretty lightly on backbeats but the VU meter looked like it was a sample! I walked into the room and was surprised how softly he was playing the kit...

[Fletcher]

Find the "bap" frequency... usually somewhere around 500Hz... add a bit, the drum will get "tougher" sounding... more aggressive, at times to the point of excess.

Add a short reverb... makes it's own sauce.

[junior]

Originally Posted by polimorfos

From my experience, usually the problem is that the drummer is not hitting the drum consistently enough to get an even response and good tone - more than how hard he is hitting the drum.

exactly.

[wallace]

I don't know if this applies to you or not, but it sounds kind of cool if you time stretch the snare hits (individual track or full kit) and make them a little longer. Of course, you have to make a sample and line it up with the rest of the hits to make sure it's in time, but it can be cool in the right situation.

[Mike Caffrey]

Compressing the hell ot of it, and especially limiting it are going to make is sound softer.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

Find the "bap" frequency... usually somewhere around 500Hz... add a bit, the drum will get "tougher" sounding... more aggressive, at times to the point of excess.

Add a short reverb... makes it's own sauce.

couldn't agree more. Since this seems to be a "fix it afterwards" question, let me add this as well. I find that SRing the snare with an attack heavy sample, and then really making the attack even more ridiculous (point of excess as fletcher says) with eq. Then sliding it in under the original snare. Can really help without affecting the overall tone of your original source.

[Igotsoul4u]

You could mult the snare, squash it, and bring it up into the main snare to taste. Also, mcdsp compressor bank 3 has a cool feature called "bite" that will let transients thru without compression.

[Robert Dewar]

I agree with Fletcher on the "bap" freq, and also with the "sauce" comment - wouldn't be the first time that I "built" a drum out of a piece of shit, using the verb tail, and maybe gating that, to create a snare body, where there wasn't one. If you're going the compression route, use a high ratio (4:1, maybe 6:1), and set the attack time somewhere over 35 ms or so, to allow the actual transient to shine through, before the comp slams down on the tail..... short enough release to keep the body, but allow each successive hit to get the same hard initial transient through, uncompressed.... turn up the makeup gain a bit, to get your return level back up..... try that, with the "bap" frequency pumped, and you might get somewhere.

[junior]

Originally Posted by wallace

it sounds kind of cool if you time stretch the snare hits (individual track or full kit) and make them a little longer. Of course, you have to make a sample and line it up with the rest of the hits to make sure it's in time, but it can be cool in the right situation.

you can do something similar (without all the fuss) with some of the transient plugs like dominion. fwiw, i use it to adjust the sustain (and attack) of kicks and snares all the time - works great and it's free.

http://digitalfishphones.com/main.php?item=2&subItem=4

fwiw, it also has a saturation stage that can add a little bite to your snares...

[drundall]

Originally Posted by Mike Caffrey

Compressing the hell ot of it, and especially limiting it are going to make is sound softer.

Huh?

[drundall]

Originally Posted by dobby12

So this record I'm working on right now... it was the drummer's first time in the studio... enough said. Actually, to be fair, he did a good job, but being that it's a rock band, he's not hitting the snare drum nearly hard enough to get that in your face rock sound... I think he might have been playing a little timidly, or maybe that's just his style. Regardless, the snare's a bit weak, and I know it's not the drum itself because it's my badass vintage Gretsch snare, with an e22s and API pre, so it should rock. Any thoughts?

Depends upon the style, sound and playing but lot's of times you can buss the snare to the right compressor and make it sound like a sledgehammer on the forehead. I've been amazed at how strong I've been able to get some real limp snares to sound. Unfortunately, you'll also bring up the hat and crashes. Sometimes this can be a "vibe", sometimes it can be a nightmare.

Why is it that drummers who hit the snare too soft usually hit the cymbals too hard?

[jerdude]

you need a distressor.

go rent one and play with it on the snare.

a distressor can make it snap.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by djui5

No, you can't make it sound like it's been hit harder, no matter how much processing you do.

Aside from replacing the snare sound with soundreplacer/etc.....

If it were me I think this is what I would try at some point but in my experience sound replacing a snare sound that is so drastically different than the real track just does not work so well. Something about the room and overheads just does not gel. After I bit I find myself trying to rebuild the whole kit including the ambiance and it all gets out of balance.

Fletcher's thing is actually what I end up using and hope for the best, no it never works out well because the energy is not included in the room or overhead tracks.

Basically what I am saying is this is a classic example of having a good source before all else (and I know you could not do much about this one). Also I think this is a great example of how being a good engineer is not enough to overcome everything as some would have you believe.

[Alexi]

Originally Posted by silverdisk

I dont have an SPL either, but using 2 RCL's can be decent, one in

compress mode, probably opto/ smooth,......

one in UPWARD expander mode, .80 or so, mess with the attacks and release ,


like others said, it works even better on a mic that has some ambience with it, or

drum buss.

heres some not too hot drums i tried this on

ooohhh.......those drums, not my type of sound

[GPl]

Originally Posted by drundall

Depends upon the style, sound and playing but lot's of times you can buss the snare to the right compressor and make it sound like a sledgehammer on the forehead. I've been amazed at how strong I've been able to get some real limp snares to sound. Unfortunately, you'll also bring up the hat and crashes. Sometimes this can be a "vibe", sometimes it can be a nightmare.

Why is it that drummers who hit the snare too soft usually hit the cymbals too hard?

Yeh, usually if they are light on the snare, they are smashing the crap out of the hihat...that sound just kills me.

[dshay]

I don't know if anybody mentioned this, I skimmed through the other posts....


Heres a trick for you...

Tune the bottom head to the top one so they're both the same pitch, place one mic pointing to the top head, one on the bottom head, reverse the phase on one of the mics (either by a cord with - + reversed, or with a preamp with that feature) and you get the doubling effect which makes the source just about twice as loud.

My guy that tunes his heads as one of those keys that you can set the torque on which makes tuning the heads easier.

[JDN]

Not to state the obvious, and sorry if I dont' sound like a purist, but this is the perfect job for sound replacer. Every good engineer should have a good arsenal of kicks and snares in the genres they work with.

I'm not talking about actually raplacing the snare, but finding something that works with the original snare and maintains the original "spirit" of the snare.

I usually listen to the snare carefully, than go through what i have and look for around 2-5 samples that seem like they blend well. I then bring those in the session, sound replace, bring up the original sanre, start seeing what blends well with it. Usually it's a combination of a couple of the snares I brought in blended with the original...

There you have it, killer new snare that "beefs" up the old while maintaining the "spirit" of the original..

[Mike Caffrey]

Originally Posted by djui5

No, you can't make it sound like it's been hit harder, no matter how much processing you do.

Aside from replacing the snare sound with soundreplacer/etc.....

Have you ever tried a Transient Designer?