Attn: Songwriters! How do you capture your inspiration? Recording midi drums too.

[retroz]

Just wondering what songwriters here do to capture those late night or spur of the moment songs? Handy MP3 player? Handheld recorder? Etc? Am thinking about looking at a phone that also doubles as a memo (voice recorder) memo pad.

2nd, All I have is BFD, and am not having a good time with it, even with Jamstix and Groove Agent. I have tried using different things, Band In a Box, Midi Keyboard, even looked at Drum pads ($1000) etc, but can't get them to sound just right. Have heard that DFHS sounds really good, was wondering how you here create good drum grooves for pop/alternative/rock for television, song writing (for publishers so it does not have to be commercial released, but good enough to inspire...)

Thanks Gear Slutz!

[DeadPoet]

For instant ideas: memo mode in cell phone. At home: templates in DAW that set up mic input, variax input, 3 keyboard sounds and groove agent in a few seconds.

Groove agent sounds bad, but the grooves that are in there are ok for me as a starting point (it even spits out MIDI to use with your BFD if you want to) and it's really easy to program a simple tune with fills and breaks.


Herwig

[Robert Dewar]

Originally Posted by retroz

Just wondering what songwriters here do to capture those late night or spur of the moment songs? Handy MP3 player? Handheld recorder? Etc? Am thinking about looking at a phone that also doubles as a memo (voice recorder) memo pad.

2nd, All I have is BFD, and am not having a good time with it, even with Jamstix and Groove Agent. I have tried using different things, Band In a Box, Midi Keyboard, even looked at Drum pads ($1000) etc, but can't get them to sound just right. Have heard that DFHS sounds really good, was wondering how you here create good drum grooves for pop/alternative/rock for television, song writing (for publishers so it does not have to be commercial released, but good enough to inspire...)

Thanks Gear Slutz!

Well..... first, if I am just trying to remember a melody, I record myself singing it to the cheap voice memo option of my Palm Zire 72. Same for obviously translatable bass lines and percussion grooves. I sometimes add verbal clues, too, to denote different components, or ideas I had for the sounds to use, etc. If it's more complex, I fire up Reason and put together a couple of quick bits, just to hold it down.

For drum programming, I'm still kind of liking Reason these days, with lots of different samples, besides Propellerhead's own, and then, I tune them, and play games with velocities and not-quite-tight timing in the track, to get a more live feel. Certainly, you can create whatever you want in lots of different environments or software production platforms, but it's the feel you create, and then the mix you put it in, that ultimately makes it happen. For some more exotic fun, you can also try reamping the drum program into a room, and micing the room, and then adding that track to your drums, to add a true live room to the sound. Just my .02.....

[C Heat]

I use cheapie SONY cassette recorder. Same tape. Re-record over and over.

BFD is cool. I think you'd be jumping into pot out of the fire if you went DKFHS. Try RMX instead, especially if it's only for song ideas. (Haven't tried DKFH or RMX - but have read LOTS about both).

Good luck.

[retroz]

Thanks all, what about drum loops?

SX and many sequencers now do loops really really well and I haven't used loops for a while, but have seen some adverts on drum loops and was wondering what are the latest and greatest drum loops? Seeing how SX handles "warp" (acid like) I was listening to a few drum loops and they sound really good. Of course, one thing I noticed though (and this could be problematic) is that many loops as well as non pro mixes emphasis the KICK and in most songs, you hardly even hear the kick for the most part on a pro recording, it;s normally a very subtle sound combined with BASS guitar....so, on one hand, getting decent loops, yet still able to tweak the bass drum.

Then again, if I could get some good drum loops, I could always use them for inspiration, then tweak BFD and load a patch and create/replace the loop. Then there is drumagoog which I have never messed with. I supposes it's somewhat like sound replacer. Wondering when Steinberg will come out with a similar sound replacer.

PS. Check out this demo from DKFH S...
http://www.soundsonline.com/cd_mp3_demos/184679.mp3

Very Lennon, Beatle sounding drums, of course, we don't know the EQ, dynamics that they used to get the final sound, but great sound none the less. Have been trying to get this with BFD with some success, but not quite there as of yet.

[retroz]

Here is a quick version of the closest I could get....with about 5 minutes of work....

XXL Tama Mellow, Pork snare (I think), mic all the way beLOW on snare.

[el cochino]

I'm using my cell phone for quick melody ideas, as well.

For midi drums I'm using Drumkit from Hell Superior and Vintage & Custom. I trigger those with a Ddrum4 kit and couldn't be happier.

[aevan]

Put all my ideas on a usb memory stick/voice recorder. 256 meg, but I hear they go up to a gig now. Mines smaller than a cigarette lighter and you can set it to a high quality mp3 then later either back all the ideas up to your hard drive or import straight of the stick into a daw program to reference.

[TBlizz]

For “the latest and greatest drum loops” for songwriters I can recommend DrumCore + DrummerPacks.
www.drumcore.com

I also use Stylus RMX with converted REX2 libraries from Drums on Demand.
www.drumsondemand.com

Good quality acoustic drum-tracks with a live feel that I find hard to get from MIDI-drums.

Martijn.

[Robert Dewar]

Originally Posted by retroz

Of course, one thing I noticed though (and this could be problematic) is that many loops as well as non pro mixes emphasis the KICK and in most songs, you hardly even hear the kick for the most part on a pro recording, it;s normally a very subtle sound combined with BASS guitar....so, on one hand, getting decent loops, yet still able to tweak the bass drum.

Maybe, load the loop into a DAW, and use a multiband compressor to modify the kick level, exclusive of the other components of the loop, and mix your bass with this, to match it and the kick better.

[u b k]

in the car, it's the phone/voice memo.

at home, logic on the powerbook loads up in about 30 seconds, and the mac's built-in mics work great to scratchpad anything.

i seem to have been blessed with a great memory for musical ideas, too, especially beats and vocal melodies.


gregoire
dle ubik

[cl516]

for quick ideas i'm almost anti-gear.
i write pen & paper style
while hammering it out
on a sea-blue Farfisa Fast2 that has its own speaker.
then i just remember the rest until i really work on it.

[DontLetMeDrown]

Cell phone is good for capturing vocal melodies.

For guitar ideas I use a line6 "guitar port". Bought it a few years ago and use it to record riffs or song ideas.

Double-click guitar port, double click Sonar, hit record, play guitar


I would have forgotten so many riffs if it weren't for this thing.

[chrisgraff]

I've had really good luck with these:

www.drumsondemand.com

[DAWgEAR]

Re BFD/Drums:

I'm going through the same thing you are describing. Take the following suggestions with that in mind.

I own both BFD and DFHS. I own Jamstix and Groove Agent 2 also. Personally, I do not think that getting other samples is the solution, although the hats in DFHS do sound better.

With BFD 1.5 I have had success (not complete) with the following:

Use the V2A (velocity to amp) parameter, especially on hihat. I set it to 99. For an eighth note groove, ONE and TWO and THREE and ..., the capitals get a high velocity and the lowercases get a low velocity, perhaps in the single digits, maybe 4 or 6. This helps with the dynamics, allows the groove to breathe, and avoids the staccato "drum machine sound".

Mute the direct hihat channel and use only the OH (ambient) mics to soften the hat.

Use reverb to further soften the hat and place it farther back in a mix. Ditto with cymbals.

Mix in a tambourine or similar percussion with the hat. Tuck it in under the hat so that it is barely audible, but adding to the goove. Or bring it up and feature it prominently.

Try shifting stuff by 1/128 note. For example, create a 4/4 groove and slide the hat forward in time (early) by 1/128 note. Or shift something such as the snare late.

Compression: set the release to propel the groove into the next beat as the compressor lets go and the volume swells back up.

Some ideas to experiment with ...

For me (not a drummer), getting the hat to sound good and programming tom fills are hardest.

[Vermeer]

My music life is centered around my iPod, so I record all my new ideas through a Griffin iTalk accessory which I carry everywere.

Griffin iTalk

The cool thing about this is that when I synchronize with iTune, I can manage my song ideas and give them "Stars" based on how good I think they are. Then, I'll arrange the best ideas in playlist and try to rearrange them into complete songs.

In the end, I get a pretty interesting history of a song with alternate ideas for verses, bridges, choruses and instrumental sections.

The only drawback is the shitty sound quality, but that's cool coz I don't have "demonisis" (an irational fear of not being able to top a demo song).

-----

For drums, I've learned to use my Triton 76 to get a basic feel, which I pass on to a real drummer, because nothing beats the real thing.


Vermeer

[kennyd03]

Originally Posted by retroz

2nd, All I have is BFD, and am not having a good time with it, even with Jamstix and Groove Agent. I have tried using different things, Band In a Box, Midi Keyboard, even looked at Drum pads ($1000) etc, but can't get them to sound just right. Have heard that DFHS sounds really good, was wondering how you here create good drum grooves for pop/alternative/rock for television, song writing (for publishers so it does not have to be commercial released, but good enough to inspire...)

I'd consider using drum loops to get a real human groove (which as a disclosure, I currently sell). You can also customize and beef up the loops with your midi'd samples (like doubling the kick and/or snare). I think that a lot of what makes a human drum groove, comes from the way the hi hat is played. There are so many nuances and different tones/sounds to it that it's extremly difficult to recreate by midi alone.

Good luck!

-Kenny D

[Tim L]

For getting ideas down quick I still have my Tascam Porta05 4 track cassette. That and a Roland R-70 for tapping out rythm parts

[max cooper]

I use a little digital voice recorder, but if I don't have it with me I'll call my voice mail and sing whatever has jumped into my brain.

For late night stuff at home, I use BFD, Amplitube and a few soft synths. It's actually kind of amazing the way some of those "all in the box" demos sound. Not that I'd release them, but if I hit some outboard iron on the way to CD, it helps.

[5down1up]

lil voice recorder as well !

i just sing on it whats coming out . ( you never want to hear this )
this way i am not limited by what i can do on a instrument its just ...

RECORD + the next 5 minutes are MINE

and the next 5 days as well to figure out how the hell i am gonna play it stike

[marchhare]

A.) Sony cassette recorder, Panasonic answering machine, and if it's really
good; memory. I always seem to remember the stuff that's good.


B.) Discrete Drums- I've been using these for over two years now and they're
really cool. I have all 3 versions. I do stuff for t.v. and film and this library is
invaluable. I couldn't live without them, seriously, because then I might have
to be in the same room as my old drummer, and I could shoot myself. If you've
just written the best song of your life, nothing kills inspiration faster than, "okay,
gimme quarter notes on the kick...we're getting closer, no...not the whole kit,
just the kick..."

[TBlizz]

Originally Posted by marchhare

B.) Discrete Drums- I've been using these for over two years now and they're
really cool. I have all 3 versions.

Indeed a great serie in many formats. Discrete Drums Vol. 4 "Heavy Mental Drums" has been out for a while now too.

Word of warning: learn the differences between the "Professional set" and "Bundles" because upgrading is not possible!

Martijn.

[funkynuts]

For ideas on the move...

a. Sony dictaphone

b.mobile phone sound recorder

c.my home phone answering service.(my girlfriend just loves to come home and discover we have 3 new messages and then have to listen to some nutter impersonating trumpets and electric guitars interspersed with rythms banged out on whatever was closest to me at the time)

d. memory,if i can get to a piano or guitar long enough to play the idea a couple of times i,ll be able to pick it out again when i get to the studio.

e.Random pieces of paper;she just loves this as well...random lines of lyrics on every piece of paper in the house;i have a couple of boxes full,then you add the notebooks,lab books and refill pads.

I think her favourite part is how they all seem to magically appear close to where i,m sitting even though she regularily banishs them back to the darkness of the storage cupboard.

Almost nothing is sacred i will write on anything except except books and records(which i think deserves capital punishment)

For late night /quick ideas at home i just set down a condensor about 2- 3ft away crank it up and jam!

[manning1]

hers the steps i go through.
when i get an idea i want it down fast....so i...
1. set up a quickie midi drum track from lots of patterns i have.
2. add a couple of guitar tracks and a rough guide vocal.
and save it.and leave it alone for a bit.

then i go to pen and paper ...to finalise the lyrics //arrangement,
and go back and redo it.......//re record etc etc.
i'll go thru this cycle several times.

[neve1073]

if i'm out or in bed or whatever, i write it down on paper--chord changes or sometiimes with notation if it's a melodic idea. i'll add some phrasing notes and rhythmic notation and notes about what i am thinking. it works for me.

then asap i get to the studio and do a quick working demo--usuallt with just guitar and maybe vox. then it's in the vault and i can take my time.

[js1]

Yeah, I used a microcassette recorder for years. Once, when I was travelling, my hotel room was broken into, and my laptop bag was stolen, which also had the recorder in it.

Some thief was probably pissing himself laughing listening to my fragmented "doot doot"s of melody ideas...

js

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by marchhare

If you've just written the best song of your life, nothing kills inspiration faster than, "okay, gimme quarter notes on the kick...we're getting closer, no...not the whole kit, just the kick..."

Funny.

[TBlizz]

Originally Posted by Vermeer

My music life is centered around my iPod, so I record all my new ideas through a Griffin iTalk accessory which I carry everywere.

Griffin iTalk

The cool thing about this is that when I synchronize with iTune, I can manage my song ideas and give them "Stars" based on how good I think they are. Then, I'll arrange the best ideas in playlist and try to rearrange them into complete songs.

I was wondering if anybody was using the Edirol R-09 or the M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96?

They have (almost) similar looks & specs. Great advantage is that both can be connected to a computer for archiving.

Thanks,
Martijn.

[sedohr]

When I'm home and a song knocks on my door I start up Quicktime in my powerbook and record it with the build-in mic. Sing the melody and play the piano or guitar. Then I import it into itunes. Then I can email it whereever I´d want to, may it be a lyricist or a bandmate. (Just did this last night, I'm hoping to get some lyrics ideas in email today :-) )

Drums I program directly through midi into Pro Tools using sounds from one of the Stormdrum kits which are amazing.

Kalli