Led Zep - The Ocean (and other tracks off Houses of the holy)

[Blast9]

About the drums:

Anyone noticed the "slap back" effect? Is this early reflections from a lively room, or is it a delay? The drums are really lively sonding, and the "delay" sounds stereo. Also the snare is tuned a fair bit higher than the other tunes (eg d'yer mak 'er or No quarter) ... it almost a "big band" type snare... Ludwig?. Check out 0.34... you can really hear the delay on the snare.

Also what's that 5th overtone on the snare in the verse? Someone pushing up the faders or just a lucky accident with the compressor? It seems to be every other snare hit.. eg 1 and 3. Very cool!

I presume its mainly overheads and room mics as already discussed?

Is the overdriven vocal sound you can hear in the outro adlibs typical of say Helios pres... That glorious "Aah" around 6.15... Or is it a combination of that and tape saturation. Its a really entrancing sound, with the delay and the swirly (slow leslie?) sound.

[Cujo]

Dang, now I have to go out and get Houses on CD. It's been too long.

Originally Posted by Blast9

About the drums:

Anyone noticed the "slap back" effect? Is this early reflections from a lively room, or is it a delay? The drums are really lively sonding, and the "delay" sounds stereo. Also the snare is tuned a fair bit higher than the other tunes (eg d'yer mak 'er or No quarter) ... it almost a "big band" type snare... Ludwig?. Check out 0.34... you can really hear the delay on the snare.

Also what's that 5th overtone on the snare in the verse? Someone pushing up the faders or just a lucky accident with the compressor? It seems to be every other snare hit.. eg 1 and 3. Very cool!

I presume its mainly overheads and room mics as already discussed?

Is the overdriven vocal sound you can hear in the outro adlibs typical of say Helios pres... That glorious "Aah" around 6.15... Or is it a combination of that and tape saturation. Its a really entrancing sound, with the delay and the swirly (slow leslie?) sound.

[Blast9]

LOL... Make sure you report back!

Actually: Re The Ocean, it sounds like everything was bussed to a very short delay panned left, except the vox which have the delay panned centre.



bump for the snare drum 5th overtone on the 1st hit on every other bar in the verse - Anyone know what that might be?

[doorknocker]

My fave Zeppelin album!

[Cujo]

Someone was dissing Telecasters over on another thread, funny I was thinking of great Tele players and Page was certainly one. The first disc is my fave, they really sound liek they are haveing a blast. I wonder if he brought the Tele back for Houses.

[superburtm]

[QUOTE=Cujo]Someone was dissing Telecasters over on another thread, funny I was thinking of great Tele players and Page was certainly one. The first disc is my fave, they really sound liek they are haveing a blast. I wonder if he brought the Tele back for Houses.[/QUOTE
I remember the thread you are talking about. My point was if you don't like the sounds of a tele don't frankenstein it and mod it out. Get a different guitar. Cuz a stock tele sounds fricking cool if played properly

[eligit]

the song "the song remains the same" from houses of the holy is tele all over!!

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Blast9

bump for the snare drum 5th overtone on the 1st hit on every other bar in the verse - Anyone know what that might be?

Judging from the VERY cool shifting blend of strings, brass & gtr on the track Kashmir.. (each decending section has its own unique blend, sometimes it's "I love those French horns!", then the next minute its "wait a minute, those aren't horns! They are f**king guitars now! NO! Hang on CELLOS! MELLOTRON? back to GTRS! DANG! I think it is quite clear that Jinny Page is / was a dude for 'ear candy " / mixing fun... So its probably him "messin with ya" somehow...

[Yutaka]

Hey guys, there's a site by Eddie Kramer where he sells the pictures from the sessions he's been in.



There are some pictures from Houses of the Holy sessions, with Eddie Kramer's audio commentary on some of them.

http://www.kramerarchives.com/cgi-bi...e=led_zeppelin

[trident fan]

Originally Posted by eligit

the song "the song remains the same" from houses of the holy is tele all over!!

yeah, and it sounds so much better when he plays it on the sg 70 double neck in the movie

[drmmrboy]

Originally Posted by Blast9

bump for the snare drum 5th overtone on the 1st hit on every other bar in the verse - Anyone know what that might be?

I was just talking with a friend about this. I don't know, and I haven't listened for a while. But I remember noticing it before... Could be playing, comp.. Who knows..? Anyone?

I gotta pull it out and listen. Good stuff! thumbsup

[superburtm]

Who were the engineers on Houses of the holy?

[Blast9]

Originally Posted by Jules

Judging from the VERY cool shifting blend of strings, brass & gtr on the track Kashmir.. (each decending section has its own unique blend, sometimes it's "I love those French horns!", then the next minute its "wait a minute, those aren't horns! They are f**king guitars now! NO! Hang on CELLOS! MELLOTRON? back to GTRS! DANG! I think it is quite clear that Jinny Page is / was a dude for 'ear candy " / mixing fun... So its probably him "messin with ya" somehow...

So the answer is simply: Its the devil's work. Jimmy went down to the crossroads and signed the best kind of contract!



As far as engineers... Eddie Kramer and Andy Johns?


Anyone gonna bite about that snare effect?

[toolskid]

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech1.html

[MadGuitrst]

Originally Posted by Yutaka

Hey guys, there's a site by Eddie Kramer where he sells the pictures from the sessions he's been in.

Holy crap.....$2,500 for pictures of a recording session? I could probably pay less and have Page come for a visit.

Really.......that's a bit silly to me.

[Cujo]

Andy Johns I'd wager,
Oh, and I love Telecasters, I must admit I put a humbucker dead in the middle of my stock pickups on my '68. I do agree though that Song Remains is a tad shrill.
I never tried to learn it, is that whole track sped up? That could explain.

Originally Posted by superburtm

Who were the engineers on Houses of the holy?

[eligit]

Originally Posted by trident fan

yeah, and it sounds so much better when he plays it on the sg 70 double neck in the movie

both are classic versions. i like the twangy tone on the record (and the layers), but also love hearing him pull it off with the fatter more distorted gibson 12 string tone on the live version.

the album is not sped up. i have played along to it many times. it is in tune..which would indicate it was recorded as you hear it. the version of "no quarter" from that record was absolutely slowed down...it sounds like C#minor....and is played in D minor.

i may be biased tho...because the album version of the song remains the same was the first zep i ever heard (dub of a dub of the vinyl) ...and is the reason i became a guitar player basically.

final note: compared to other top albums of the period the overall sound quality of houses of the holy is a LITTLE sketchy, just on a technical level. hugely artistic but sonically a little suspect. and the material/band is so strong it does not bother me a bit. the song remains is probably the highlight of the album. followed by dancing days. and then the ocean....although the "new"(ish) live version of the ocean from the DVD is also very fun.

[Blast9]

Yeah, there's quite a variety in flavours on this. Maybe different sessions crammed into a hectic schedule?

[eligit]

Originally Posted by Blast9

Yeah, there's quite a variety in flavours on this. Maybe different sessions crammed into a hectic schedule?

i read that the album was recorded on a mobile rig and then mixed on bad speakers and then they had to re mix the whole thing...there are sonic issues. especially when you compare it to zep III (lovely acousic sounds), IV (levee!), and some of Physical Graffitti (in the light, ten years gone etc etc), all of which have pretty wonderful tones/sonics.

[Nigel Jopson]

Drums ... sound ...

(for all the Zep fans, a little comment from the man 'imself ...)

[Cujo]

Hmm, that sounds like Fool In The Rain to me..great but I dontl think it's houses.
AMy I wrong?

[Crash]

Originally Posted by Cujo

Hmm, that sounds like Fool In The Rain to me..great but I dontl think it's houses.
AMy I wrong?

Yep, that is "Fool in the Rain" off of "In through the Out Door."

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by eligit

i read that the album was recorded on a mobile rig and then mixed on bad speakers and then they had to re mix the whole thing...there are sonic issues.

I believe that story was about Zep IV when Johns and Page mixed the album initially. HOTH was mostly mixed by Kramer. Sounds better sonically to me than Zep IV (I've thought that since I was 12). Not that Zep IV doesn't sound incredible, it's just something about the fidelity of the mids and highs on HOTH that's impressive. It sounds more extended and quieter. It looks to be the only difference between the two albums is that IV was not mixed primarily at Electric Lady Studios (if that's not the case then I'm not sure what would be the primary difference, maybe just Kramer's influence). I'm pretty sure that both were recorded on the mobile Stones truck. All this is somewhere on the web I'm sure.

[Nigel Jopson]

Originally Posted by Cujo

Hmm, that sounds like Fool In The Rain to me..great but I dontl think it's houses.
AMy I wrong?

You're spot on!

"Houses Of The Holy" was mostly recorded at Mick Jagger's country house, Stargroves, with the Rolling Stones Mobile, except for for "No Quarter" which was recorded at Island in London. The album was mixed at Olympic Studios in Barnes, London, and Electric Lady in NY NY.

Here's a pic of the RSM: Linoleum floor, department store lighting, Altec 608G monitors, Helios desk with all the legending rubbed off, 16 Trk 3M recorder ... great sound!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

I believe that story was about Zep IV when Johns and Page mixed the album initially. HOTH was mostly mixed by Kramer. Sounds better sonically to me than Zep IV (I've thought that since I was 12). Not that Zep IV doesn't sound incredible, it's just something about the fidelity of the mids and highs on HOTH that's impressive. It sounds more extended and quieter.

Exactly the same thinking here, only since I was about 9. There has always been something.... different.. sounding about IV, even as a kid I noticed.

IV is darker and does not have the same depth of field that the other albums have. It is cloudy somehow. Not that I don't love it because I do it is just not the one that I would point to for it's sonics. I'll take Presence or Physical Graffiti thank you.....

[superburtm]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Exactly the same thinking here, only since I was about 9. There has always been something.... different.. sounding about IV, even as a kid I noticed.

IV is darker and does not have the same depth of field that the other albums have. It is cloudy somehow. Not that I don't love it because I do it is just not the one that I would point to for it's sonics. I'll take Presence or Physical Graffiti thank you.....

Presence

[Blast9]

YES... presence has a certain..... presence!


PS Superburtm... "Malcuit" =" badly-cooked?"

[Jules]

Originally Posted by Nigel Jopson

You're spot on!

"Houses Of The Holy" was mostly recorded at Mick Jagger's country house, Stargroves, with the Rolling Stones Mobile, except for for "No Quarter" which was recorded at Island in London. The album was mixed at Olympic Studios in Barnes, London, and Electric Lady in NY NY.

Here's a pic of the RSM: Linoleum floor, department store lighting, Altec 608G monitors, Helios desk with all the legending rubbed off, 16 Trk 3M recorder ... great sound!

As they had the same Helios consoles the Rolling Stones Mobile was frequently swapped with The Ronnie Lane Mobile - both trucks did 'double duty' on Led Zep material ... and as I understand it, songs on the same albums were recorded using both indeed some songs tracked on one may have been overdubbed on with the other....

I have 4 channels from the Ronnie Lane Mobile . the song Kashmir was supposed to have used the RLM..

[petsematary]

My favorite Led album by far. And I have at least 50 Zep CD's..

[petsematary]

Originally Posted by Crash

Yep, that is "Fool in the Rain" off of "In through the Out Door."

"Arhhh! Foookin' 'ell!"
Bonzo is the man.