Patchbay setup for tracking & Analog mixing

[Rufuss Sewell]

Ok, I started a thread yesterday about how to conceptually route my equipment for the most efficient use. Now I need to get into the nuts and bolt. I have all of the cables and converters ready to plug in... but I don't really know where to start. Here's what I got:

16 Channel snake for incoming mics.

32 Channel Daking console.

Big Ben master clock

2x Rosetta 800 (converters for 16 mics)

2x X-HD cards in the Rosettas for accessing Pro Tools HD 7

Motu 2408mkIII interface (2 sets of ADAT from Rosettas plus 8 more A/D and D/A)

2x Bantam CPT96 patch-bays for a total of 192 points

The board came with a giant pile of RedCo 8 channel snakes with several DB25>DB25, DB25>XLR both male and female, DB25>TRS, and TRS>TRS. As far as I can tell there are plenty to achieve the routing I need. If only I could get my brain to work.

Various outboard: La-2a, UA 6176, 2x Chameleon 7602, TC Gold Channel, Roland Space Echo RE-201, a couple other cheap reverbs and comps.

I need to be able to track the 16 mics into Logic via the Rosetta's ADAT outs into the Motu... and to Pro Tools via the Rosetta's X-HD out. On the way to the converters I'd like to be able to patch in the compressors and effects... and also choose a different pre if necessary.

For mixing I need to be able to send 24 channels from Logic via 2x Rosetta's (16ch) and the Motu's 8 D/A's. As well as send 16 channels of Pro Tools via the X-HD's in the Rosettas. I'd also like to be able to patch in the compressors and effects during mixdown.

If one of you guys could be very patient and give me a quick step by step I would be eternally grateful. Don't assume I know anything, because thus far I've only worked in the box.

The main void in my knowledge at this point concerns the patchbay. I have 192 holes (4 rows of 48) looking at me, with 24x DB25 connectors on the back and I really don't know what to do with them.

I don't really know what normaled and half normaled means. Although I'm sure it has something to do with the ins and outs on the patchbay being hardwired.

The patchbay doesn't indicate ins and outs, and I'm not sure how to make something normaled or half normaled even if I knew what it meant. I have a feeling it involves solder though.

Also if you guys know of a good tutorial on the net for this kind of set up that would be awesome.

Thanks a lot, and I apologize for the dense thread.

[Rick Sutton]

Wel, I think that you're getting no replies here 'cause you're asking for a someone to analyze your system and give you a step by step tutorial on how to wire a relatively complex recording studio. Potentially a huge time soak. Lots of people here, myself included, with the experience but you're gonna have to find a saint to volunteer that much time and info.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I really think you should hire someone local that has put studios together and can help you get yours going. I envy you with that Daking console and would enjoy being paid to help, but I, like a lot of us here, have all I can do to keep my own place running.
From what I've read here and elsewhere I'd contact someone like Brian Roth and see if he wants to travel to Austin to help you. He's not that far away in Oklahoma.
That's my 2 cents.
Rick

[Rufuss Sewell]

Well, I think I almost have it figured out actually. I have someone from Sacramento helping me over the phone. I didn't expect someone to give me a step by step... but I figured I'd give it a try.

For the snake I'm going to use 1-13 into the Daking, 14 into the 610 and 15/16 into the 7602's.

The upper and lower rows appear to be normaled... which I guess just means connected without patch cables. The tracking half is connected. Now I need to get to the mix. The replies to my other thread have helped alot with that half.

Thanks for the suggestions. If I can't figure it out, Geoff Daking is coming for SXSW and he's going to do some mods, so maybe he'll help with whatever else I need.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Ok, I think after staying up all night trying to figure this out, I've finally come to grips with what I have to do. The patch bays are not normalled at all so I have to get out the soldering iron. The Signex patch bays look like they're pretty easy. Three little connections per point. I'll add one more post to this thread when I've finished just for historical purposes.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Well, I think I finally got it.

I actually mixed a song through the board today and it sounded amazing!!!

The difference between the same mix ITB and through the daking was HUGE.

It was even more huge when I replaced all of the plug-in EQ's with the Daking's EQ at similar settings.

I soldered the patchbay for half normal on all the points.

I easily patched the bass into the 1176, the vocals into the LA-2A and the Toms into the TC Gold Channel. That also made a huge difference. I've never used hardware on a mix... only for tracking.

The ADAM s2.5a's also made a huge difference because for the first time when I listened in my car the mix was reasonably similar. With my old Event's, I knew them well enough to second guess what it would sound like and mix accordingly... usually with a muddy low end and too much 5K. With the ADAM's I just mixed, and it translated to the car perfectly.

There's still a few kinks to work out though. For example, I patched the masters from the board directly into the Big Knob while mixing. Then for the mixdown I patched the masters into the Rosetta 1 and 2 inputs... and thus couldn't hear the mix while it recorded. Then I patched the speakers back in to listen back. I'd like to be able to hear it while it mixes, but the way I have the patchbay setup, I don't have the Master outs half normalled to the Big Knob ins. I wonder if that would somehow diminish the signal going into the mixdown?!?

Ack... it's almost 8am. I've been at this all night. Pretty slutty huh?

[Ollie]

I have Daking board as well. I have only 24 channels, but in the center section there are two mixers that can be used.

Here is how I do it.

1. I track with channels 09 -24 ->Tape machine or Daw input 1-16
2. Output from the tape machine 1 -8 -> Daking 1- 8
3. Output from the tape machine 9 - 16 -> Daking top mixer 9 -17

Therefore I have 16 monitor points that come up normalled while tracking. The return from tape goes to the channels 9 - 16 as well as the top mini mixer also.

If you want me to send a layout of my patchbay I can do that for you. PM me with your email address.

My advice is to find a guy in your area that sets up studios to help you do your install and find a patch bay scheme that works well for the way you want to work.

[logicll]