Trident serie 8T or Toft audio Trident serie ATB?

[djanogil]

Could anyone explain the relation between these two consoles,
they both have the Trident name, one is from Toft Audio Designs and the other one is by Oram; http://www.oram.co.uk/SER%208T.htm

http://www.toftaudiodesigns.com/atb.html

thanks

[rainsinvelvet]

Please.. .do a search on this.

THere are several huge topics on this and other b.s. regarding the two companys..
enjoy..

ERic

[TooledUp]

The difference is that, the 8T is made in the UK by Trident Audio Ltd.
The ATB is made by PMI Audio in China and is nothing to do with Trident.

Theres loads of shlt going down cause of this, legal shlt.

Acording to Alan Hyatt of PMI the only difference is that the ATB uses Toft preamps where as the 8T uses Trident S20 preamps.

This is not true though because the ATB does not use authentic Trident circuitry and it most probably would sound different to the 8T as a ressult.

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by TooledUp

The difference is that, the 8T is made in the UK by Trident Audio Ltd.
The ATB is made by PMI Audio in China and is nothing to do with Trident.

Theres loads of shlt going down cause of this, legal shlt.

Acording to Alan Hyatt of PMI the only difference is that the ATB uses Toft preamps where as the 8T uses Trident S20 preamps.

This is not true though because the ATB does not use authentic Trident circuitry and it most probably would sound different to the 8T as a ressult.

And here we go again...

Please, please, PLEASE not another Oram vs. Toft thread!!! AHahhahahahaha!!!!!

-Synth80s

[GPl]

This thread will self destruct in........

[TooledUp]

Originally Posted by djanogil

Could anyone explain the relation between these two consoles,
they both have the Trident name, one is from Toft Audio Designs and the other one is by Oram; http://www.oram.co.uk/SER%208T.htm

http://www.toftaudiodesigns.com/atb.html

thanks

Question answered!

[borau]

Fwiw, Toft was the original owner of Trident.
So his use of the trident name is not taken out of the blue.

Oram has his fans, which seem quite religious about the matter and pop up under false pretensions in every thread regarding Toft, Oram or Trident, usually with such conviction and agressiveness that I, whithout having ever met him, believe mr. Oram is an incarnation of L.Ron or something in that vein.

Like our friend "tooled up" has already shown in this thread.

[matta]

Um...

Actually neither of these consoles are replacements for the 'original' Trident 80B Console. They may share similar features, like the EQ, but they are very different animals... the pres on both are not like the original transformer coupled amps.

Many of Mr. Oram's pieces use the same PCB, just populated differently to obtain the various results, and feature SMD. In fact his S100 mixer already has the EQ points set to the original 80B Eq points. (This out of John's mouth to me incase anyone wants to yell heretic). I'm not sure if a new layout was done for the 8T, but not doubt it is SMD.

These are EXACTLLY the reasons why I prefer the Toft ATB, sonics aside, I'm talking construction now.

Firstly the ATB is through hole, like the good old days, and as someone who builds and repairs my own gear this is a MAJOR selling point! I'm no good with SMD (not worth investing my money in the tools for this work right now), but decent with a 'traditional' iron, so if a channel goes down, out comes the card, and it is up an running in no time. Saves a fortune on repairs.

The boards themselves are in banks of 8 PCB's, so if a channel goes down, and you aren't any good with an iron you can take out the channel send it for repair, but still be able to record your next session. Not sure if you have single cards in the Oram 8T, not seen the insides, so can't comment.

ALL the IC's are socketed, so the user can vary the sound just by replacing the opamps, with various drop in IC's and see if you don't perhaps prefer another sound. Maybe even have a couple channels with NE5532's instead of TL072's... I love options... personally wouldn't want to try it on the Oram board though.

Those are just a couple things off the top of my head that at selling point of the ATB of the 8T, just personal observations.

Cheers

Matt

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by TooledUp

The difference is that, the 8T is made in the UK by Trident Audio Ltd.
The ATB is made by PMI Audio in China and is nothing to do with Trident.

Theres loads of shlt going down cause of this, legal shlt.

Acording to Alan Hyatt of PMI the only difference is that the ATB uses Toft preamps where as the 8T uses Trident S20 preamps.

This is not true though because the ATB does not use authentic Trident circuitry and it most probably would sound different to the 8T as a ressult.

Aren't you an Oram dealer???

[Synth80s]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Aren't you an Oram dealer???

Good call: http://www.soundtools.co.uk/Products/Mixers/AML.htm

It's hard to take someone's opinion (and it IS an opinion) seriously when they don't reveal their financial stake in trashing one vendor and pimping another.

Bad form, sir.

-Synth80s

[Coldsnow]

I'd say until someone has both in their studio trying them side by side it is pretty pointless to debate which is better sonically or in any manner.

[covert]

Like many of us, I'm looking hard at these boards.

Originally Posted by matta

These are EXACTLLY the reasons why I prefer the Toft ATB, sonics aside, I'm talking construction now.

Firstly the ATB is through hole, like the good old days, and as someone who builds and repairs my own gear this is a MAJOR selling point! I'm no good with SMD (not worth investing my money in the tools for this work right now), but decent with a 'traditional' iron, so if a channel goes down, out comes the card, and it is up an running in no time. Saves a fortune on repairs.

The boards themselves are in banks of 8 PCB's, so if a channel goes down, and you aren't any good with an iron you can take out the channel send it for repair, but still be able to record your next session. Not sure if you have single cards in the Oram 8T, not seen the insides, so can't comment.

ALL the IC's are socketed, so the user can vary the sound just by replacing the opamps, with various drop in IC's and see if you don't perhaps prefer another sound. Maybe even have a couple channels with NE5532's instead of TL072's... I love options... personally wouldn't want to try it on the Oram board though.

According to the Oram dealer I corresponded with, although the board is largely surface mount, major ic components are in sockets, so that sort of change is possible. I expect to actually see and hear the board on my next trip to the city.

[matta]

Hi Covert,


Thanks for the heads up. I think it is cool if the amps were socketed. SMD, still makes it harder to repair yourself without the right tools. Maybe I'm just clinging to the past, but for now it is still a major selling point to me when buying outboard gear, as it makes it easier for me, myself to repair.

Let us know what you think of the 8T and if you get a chance to look inside. I'm interested to know more about the guts of the unit, if each channel has it's own PCB etc and if the amps are themselves socketed.

Thanks

Matt

[covert]

Originally Posted by matta

Thanks for the heads up. I think it is cool if the amps were socketed. SMD, still makes it harder to repair yourself without the right tools. Maybe I'm just clinging to the past, but for now it is still a major selling point to me when buying outboard gear, as it makes it easier for me, myself to repair.

You're very welcome. I understand the concern, which is why I was asking about it. I wouldn't regard what I said as gospel, since it comes from a source with an interest.

Let us know what you think of the 8T and if you get a chance to look inside. I'm interested to know more about the guts of the unit, if each channel has it's own PCB etc and if the amps are themselves socketed.

I am too. Of course I'll post anything of interest.

[covert]

Okay, I finally made it down to the city, and called the dealer who had the Oram boards. While a month or so back, he'd assured me that he had the 8T in stock, apparently the one in hand was a demo from a trade show, and had been recalled to the factory for tweaking. He tried to convince me that the eq on the dream that he did have in stock was, "pretty much the same," as that in the 8T. Since physical construction issues were among the ones that I wanted to know about, I declined the chance to play with the dream. So it appears that the 8T may not be any more solidly on the streets than the ATB. Guess it will be a while longer before I get serious about a new board.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by TooledUp

The difference is that, the 8T is made in the UK by Trident Audio Ltd.
The ATB is made by PMI Audio in China and is nothing to do with Trident.

You're either a shill or a moron [what seems most likely is a moron trying to do shill work].

Do your homework, learn some history... pull your head out of your ass, put down the cup of Kool-Aid... then get back to us.

Peace.

[sami_sumea]

Hi, all,

I'd like post my first ever message on gearslutz, and share my first few minutes of testing with Trident 8t that I received a few days ago (finally, after 3 months of waiting!)

I haven't been able to put the mixer through "real life" tests yet, as my new studio isn't yet finished so I'm currently able to give just some first hand impressions and as I don't own a Toft console, I cannot do any direct comparison between the two, but I hope this is useful and interesting to some people!

The console does indeed look very very good! It's really even better looking in real life than in the pictures. As this is gearslutz forum I assume it's almost as important to some people as the sound

I tried running some line level bass guitar and some music that I consider to be well produced (read: older Red Snapper stuff etc) through the console. The bass guitar sounded very good, even without tweaking any EQ it sounded round and analogue (which is something that I like). Also, music played through the console sounded good with tight bottom end and quite nice analogue, smooth sound.

As the EQ was one of the main reasons I got the console in the first place, it was naturally my second test. I actually like it quite a lot. I compared the EQ quickly to TL Audio M3 Tubetracker EQ, and I found it to be much better sounding, especially on the low-mid and high-mid areas.

Next, quickly I tested the mic preamps. As I don't have my new vocal booth set up yet, and I didn't have anything else but Röde NTK and AKG 414 XLS mics to test the console with, I cannot say anything about the real quality of the preamps yet, except that they sounded a bit tight on the upper mids (I also tested the same vocalist quickly through the Tubetracker, which has very smooth, round, tubey sound, which may just suit our vocalist, and especially the two test mics better in this case). I'll try to compare the preamps with some Neumann mics, different vocalists, guitar etc. and decent vocal booth later.

However, the build quality is something that I'm really concerned of. When I received the mixer, it already had one push-button missing (!) which is quite amazing considering that I hadn't even gotten it out of the package yet! The aux/pan/eq pots feel REALLY cheap, they feel like they're directly connected to the circuit board, and not to the case of the mixer (or something, I'm not a technical guy!) so I'm really worried on breaking them! Even the pots in our $50 Phonic 8-channel "mixer" (used as headphone amp) feel of being much better quality. Also, one of the case screws was screwed in really badly (I'll post some pics later).

So, my first feelings are a bit mixed, soundwise I can probably think of using the console very well for some applications, but the build quality is something I find quite unbearable for a mixer of this price.

I'll post some more reports + pics later as soon as we get the studio finished, which should be in a few weeks.

br,
Sami

[product23]

hi sami,

did you ever take some pictures of these desk issues you had?

cheers,

[tester2]

Hi all. Before I start, I want to be clear that this is an unbiased post based on what I have experienced. I expect a few people will disagree with my thoughts and that’s fine. I’m certainly no expert in the subtleties of mixing consoles, so please take what I write with a pinch of salt. I don’t want this to turn into an ugly slagging thread, but as I am maybe one of the first people to try both units, I feel compelled to tell all what I found.

I have never used a Trident 80b, so I will not try and say which sounds more like it.

My friend has one of the Oram-Trident series 8t desks in his home studio that I tried out a week or two ago.

First Impressions
The first thing I thought when I saw it was that it is quite an unassuming little desk, absolutely perfect for his setup, as space is a premium concern. The wood is attractive but sparse, adding the classy look, whilst not taking up too much real estate.

The faders feel smooth and solid, but I personally didn’t like the pots. To me they felt just too lose and wobbly, and took me back to the “Mackie days”. From reading elsewhere on GS, I understand Oram used these pots intentionally as to give long lasting use and that would make sense, giving it has a 2 year warranty.

The channel strip is really easy to work with, and I especially like the EQ being lower than the auxes so they’re closer to hand. I didn’t really like the plastic knobs, as they felt a bit cheap between the fingers, and sometimes it was hard to tell the positions of the push buttons on the channels as they didn’t have much “travel”.

The master section is a little confusing to start with but its all there, be it in a limited fashion, for example refer to the aux return features. However the meterbridge, IMO was excellent. Clear, bright and attractive. The ability to global shift the levels to match digital levels was also a welcomed facility.

Sound

So we plugged a couple of mics in and had a listen to what the pres could do. They sounded really good. Very clear rich and full. Now I understand why so many people rave about the s20 preamp.

The EQ was also very good in a “does what it says on the tin” kind of way and it couldn’t be described as harsh. Whilst certainly not the best EQ I’ve heard, it’s defiantly not the worst either, and proves flexible enough to for fill most users’ needs.

Everything is very quiet and I expect the use of all balanced connectors will be a welcome inclusion to most.





I decided to go for the Toft ATB for my own studio for a number of reasons, including the ability or running 6 full aux sends simultaneously, as apposed to 3 on the 8T.

There are many user reviews of the ATB here on GS, so I wont I wont dwell on how it feels and sounds too much, as its all been said before. Safe to say though, that the EQ is stellar and the desk definitely looks very impressive. However, Id like to try and compare the sound and feel of both desks, but I want to be clear that I used the units on different days and through different monitors, so this is defiantly not an A/B test.

They are both very quiet desks, and I don’t think any issues with noise would arise (as long as the relevant gain stages are setup correctly).

Both preamps are of excellent quality, I think the Oram has a slightly more open sound which is very flattering for vocals and acoustic guitar. This does not mean that it is better than the Toft, just different as the Toft’s pres are defiantly a “warmer” sound and work very well on drum tracks and distorted guitars. Either way both are of a quality I was not expecting in this price range, and they both have excellent headroom, and can take a lot!

I personally found the Toft’s EQ more pleasing to the ear over the Oram, but as mentioned earlier, the Oram is eq will do the job without sounding brittle or harsh. There may not be much between the two, but I feel the Toft has more of that magic that makes you smile when you grab the controls.

Feature wise, apart from the differing numbers in aux sends, the channel strips on both units are pretty even in features; one has this, the other has that, but for the most part, they are both extremely intuitive, and anyone who has had little experience with analogue desks could be up and running in a matter of minutes. I defiantly prefer the Toft’s pots as they feel quite tight which I personally like, and the use of metal knobs was a stroke of genius, it really gives the ATB that sense of quality. However, I prefer the position of the EQ's under the auxes on the 8T as opposed to the reverse on the ATB.

I feel the 8T’s master section is a tad limited compared to the Toft’s, but on the whole I feel there may be a good reason for this. It is very clear after using both that these are both very good desks, but very different if you look past the names and the use of wood!

Overall I feel the Oram would be perfect for the high end home studio, where people want a great front end, with basic monitoring features and a small footprint. I feel this is how the desk was designed, which would make sense of the cut down master and group sections.

I feel the Toft is better suited to the mid level studio where customers come and like to see a “big desk” with lots of knobs and flashy lights, and designed to be operated in a more traditional sense with the inclusion of 8 full stereo FX returns, 3 “2 trk” returns, more involved grouping facilities, etc, etc. I do feel though they really missed a trick not making a meterbridge, and think that it can’t come soon enough.

I really don’t feel one is better than the other. It is more a case of what suits your setup and recording methods. Do you mix ITB, or a few stereo stems for analog summing? Well you probably don’t need 6 simultaneous aux sends, and could use some of the line or tape ins for FX returns.

However If you use a DAW like a tape machine, you may find the ATB will give you more options in terms of routing and I/O.

Both manufactures have made a great product, and I’m sure most would be very happy with either unit. It’s a shame people made these desks into rival products, whatever the history, when it seems clear to me they are made for different focus groups and end users.

I hope people may find this useful when deciding on what to buy.



t2

[tester2]

BTW, if you havent realised, I used a new login name as to protect my identity (and email add, website etc) from any flamers!
t2

[ricfoxx]

I am patiently waiting for my Series 8T. i am very excited after using the Celebration 4T channel strip and your review of the S20 pre is dead on from my perspective. It is now one of my favorite Pres among the high end pres that I have.

A question though...Did you get to use the summing section of the 8T? Does it hold together well?

The idea of having (16) S20 pres and (16) quality EQs and monitoring facilitys outside of Pro Tools Le is very exciting and for the price, it seems like a great deal. Now if I can get some decent converters I will be set.

Thanks for the review

[tester2]

Hi Ricfoxx.

Well I had a quick "play" the summing facilities of the 8T. Whilst I cant say the subtlties of X & Y, putting a few stereo stems out of a DAW into the desk definatley made everything sound nice . It certainly didnt sound bad, or worse than the 2buss in the DAW. Hope that helps. TBH I dont think you will be disapointed with the sound of these both units.

T2

[skygod]

Originally Posted by GPl

"Three degrees in bebop, a PHD in swing, he's the master of rhythm, he's a rock and roll king" -Lowell George-

But I dunno if I can play this stuff ...
You play the white keys .... and then you play the black keys.
That's it! ... Dig?
- Miles Davis -

[skygod]

Originally Posted by djanogil

Could anyone explain the relation between these two consoles,
they both have the Trident name, one is from Toft Audio Designs and the other one is by Oram; http://www.oram.co.uk/SER%208T.htm

Toft Audio Designs ATB Home

thanks

I'm hardly an Oram-Toft expert, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and take a broad swathe at this one ...

The Oram8T-16 is the little bear
The Oram8T-24 is the momma bear
The Oram8T-32 is the poppa bear

The ATB-16 is the little bear
The ATB-24 is the momma bear
The ATB-32 is the poppa bear

They are first cousins that hate each other living across the large span wooded audio area. One day the six little bears went out into the woods foraging for bands to record. Then they came across this blonde-redhead chick from Little Falls, NJ and she called herself "little red riding hood" who moonlighted as a spy for the United Nations. Then one day the Zionist Oram bears met the Holy Jihadi Toft Bears at the brook .... well you all know the rest of that sad tale right? Remember that story? C'mon dude! Its a fvvcking classic

~skygod~

[DRC]

Originally Posted by skygod

Then one day the Zionist Oram bears met the Holy Jihadi Toft Bears at the brook .... well you all know the rest of that sad tale right? Remember that story? C'mon dude! Its a fvvcking classic

~skygod~

I always found it to be a little more Protestant/Catholic in downtown Belfast after the bars closed and no one found a lucky fat girl to take home. But the way the Toft 'seems' to be outselling the Oram I suppose it has pretty much turned into throwing rocks at tanks while wearing the finest of silk ties.

[jacko]

I have been interested in both desks recently. After doing some research I found one advantage of 8T over ATB. The first one has a possibility of swapping fader with monitor knob. You control level to tape with monitor pot and off-tape monitoring is controlled with the fader. It's like fader swap mode on Neve VR. To my information ATB does not have this feature.

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by jacko

I have been interested in both desks recently. After doing some research I found one advantage of 8T over ATB. The first one has a possibility of swapping fader with monitor knob. You control level to tape with monitor pot and off-tape monitoring is controlled with the fader. It's like fader swap mode on Neve VR. To my information ATB does not have this feature.

The ATB Also has this feature. The I/P REV switch at the top of the module reverses the MON & LINE inputs and routes your DAW returns thorugh the EQ and faders.

DP

[jacko]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

The ATB Also has this feature. The I/P REV switch at the top of the module reverses the MON & LINE inputs and routes your DAW returns thorugh the EQ and faders.

This is different feature that in fact both desks have. But only 8t seems to have "fader flip" which does different thing. When you perform a recording session you have an option to use faders as your monitor path volume control, where on ATB you have to use knobs as your monitoring volume and fader always controls the level that is sent to tape.

Jack

[kats]

I think you might be right about that jacko, I never bothered trying that on my ATB.

But the thing is, who really cares?

[jacko]

I care a lot about that.