I Need Help With Metal Kick Sounds

[IndieRockStudio]

ok guys and gals,

i dont mean to bore anyone or start a thread that everyone is like "oh man. not this question again.", but i am having serious issues getting the kick to stay in the mix. im using SX3 and steinberg's regular 'ol eq thats in the program. ive tried everything. even replacing the sounds with ApTrigga. but the kick is still buried in the mix.

heres some insight... i DO eq guitars with low end. i usually pump up a low shelf eq on the entire guitar mix. most of my clients are recording in C# and they want alot of "JUDD-JUDD". should i not EQ the guitars like that? just wondering what anyone else does. maybe you high-pass guitars... i dont know...

i also never EQ'd or compressed drums to tape yet. although that will be started on my next project. maybe thats another problem. like i said, dont bash me... this is why im asking...

if you could, please post your signal flow for kick (or a whole kit for that matter) from mic to final mix so i can try some stuff out.

thanks alot!

[RCM - Ronan]

Most modern metal has triggered kicks, especially any "extreme" metal. If you are doing really heavy stuff and trying to get the kick to cut through try gating and boosting around 4k and 10k.

[DC11]

Helps to pull 250hz too. Thats kind of a "pillowy" freq on kick sometimes.

[Sqye]

JEEEEZ - WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS - WHERE THE F8CK DO YOU GET A METAL KICK DRUM?? AND WHAT metal'S IT MADE OUT OF?

I gotta get me onnuh them.

[DC11]

Originally Posted by Sqye

JEEEEZ - WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS - WHERE THE F8CK DO YOU GET A METAL KICK DRUM?? AND WHAT metal'S IT MADE OUT OF?

I gotta get me onnuh them.

Whatever metal is HEAVY.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by DC11

Whatever metal is HEAVY.

DUUUDE - YOU MEAN LIKE CAST IRON?????

[Almost Human]

Try blending with samples. Here's some kick samples for you, although you'll have to cut the samples out yourself...

[IndieRockStudio]

thanks for the samples! ill try em out! still waiting to see some examples of your signal paths from mic to mixdown. im also thinking of trading the BETA52 for a D6. anyone agree??

[DC11]

I think I would agree. It's been awhile since I've used a D6, but I really liked the results. Worked good for a thunderous floor tom as well. Dont' think the Beta would've been as good. Audix mics are usually better for live though.

[Almost Human]

For metal, the D6 has a great frequency curve to it that gets you pretty close to that metal sound right off the bat.

[godcity]

i know you were trying to be funny, but...

http://www.trickdrums.com/

there you go.

Originally Posted by Sqye

JEEEEZ - WHAT I WANNA KNOW IS - WHERE THE F8CK DO YOU GET A METAL KICK DRUM?? AND WHAT metal'S IT MADE OUT OF?

I gotta get me onnuh them.

[NathanEldred]

Originally Posted by Almost Human

For metal, the D6 has a great frequency curve to it that gets you pretty close to that metal sound right off the bat.

Yep.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by godcity

i know you were trying to be funny, but...

http://www.trickdrums.com/

there you go.

Aluminum is O' SKOOOO', BUT CAST IRON - That's the sh*t.

DC11 - My drummer has an Audix endorsement. He's got 2 sets of the newest complete recording mic kits, one set on each of his 10k Ayotte kits, and he's really lovin' them. He plays everything from crazy triple kick speed metal to the most laid back New Orleans swing, and has 4 endorsements, but he's loving those new Audix mics. And we've done quite abit of recording for all different kinds of projects with them - they sound great I like the fact that the head engineer/ designer for Audix drum mics is a drummer - I talked with him at AES this passed fall - very cool guy.

[DC11]

Nice. The only Audix I've used in the studio is the D6. All the others were for live. I wouldn't mind trying them in the studio though.

[Sqye]

Originally Posted by DC11

Nice. The only Audix I've used in the studio is the D6. All the others were for live. I wouldn't mind trying them in the studio though.

We were having a bit of trouble, initially, with the toms mics and ohs. As it turns out, after speaking with their mic designer at AES, the tom mics are SUPER sensitive, and have to be mounted back a bit. Unfortunately, the mounts make that difficult to impossible. We've since solved that problem, and now the toms sound great. Those tom mics CAN NOT be treated like 421s, as it turns out, even though 421s were a good part of the inspiration for their design, acording to Audix. Likewise, with the Audix ohs, we had to move them up and away from the kits, and take them down in our mixes to get them to sit where we wanted them. The mics do sound killer, though. Go Audix.

[DC11]

Thats good to know. The theater I was at used D2's-D4's for toms, the U-87 looking ones for the OH and rooms, 451 looking ones for the HH and bottom snare, and the piano mics. They worked pretty well. It wasn't that big of a theater, so we were mixing stage volume with mics, so I don't know how good. Cheap though, that can be a plus thumbsup

[Sqye]

The ohs aren't that cheap - @ the same as 84s. Of course I love 84s, too

Say, are you using solid brass mics to record your solid cast iron kd?

[darkwater]

I was witness to a Metallica 5.1 mix and when the tapes came in, there were no less than 10 kick drum tracks. I kid you not. Several different mics and re-amps and samples triggered.

Try layering sounds to get what you want.

[Almost Human]

Originally Posted by Sqye

We were having a bit of trouble, initially, with the toms mics and ohs. As it turns out, after speaking with their mic designer at AES, the tom mics are SUPER sensitive, and have to be mounted back a bit. Unfortunately, the mounts make that difficult to impossible. We've since solved that problem, and now the toms sound great. Those tom mics CAN NOT be treated like 421s, as it turns out, even though 421s were a good part of the inspiration for their design, acording to Audix. Likewise, with the Audix ohs, we had to move them up and away from the kits, and take them down in our mixes to get them to sit where we wanted them. The mics do sound killer, though. Go Audix.

That's interesting. How far back do you guys use your D2's and D4's?

[Gregg Sartiano]

Here ya go. These are from my private stash. They're a little synthy, but they hit really hard, especially if they're layered. Hope this helps.

Ensoniq TS-12 --> Chandler LTD-1 (probably). I don't remember the exact setup.

Nothing beats layering kicks with tab-to-transient style editing by hand -- making sure that the kick drums are phased matched. Yes, it's VERY repetitive, but I think it's worth it (at least if the artist cares about the project and their collective musicianship as much as you care about sound...or, if they suck, hopefully they're paying you well enough to beat-detect their crappy drummer...).

[prismtheory]

dude I recorded this drummer of a metal band...he came in with a Tama starclassic kit.

On his kick drum he had a hard plastic beater and a CHUNK of metal duct taped to his batter head.

Naturally I said "What the **** is that?", so he started playing and it sounded like a a triggered sample right out of the gate.

So I kept it...the kick sound is pretty different real clicky...but I took out a little bit of of 4-5k and boosted a little lows and it was brilliant....it cut very nicely.

The weird thing about it was that it didn't sound like that in my room mics or in the overheads...it was still boomy and phat.

One of the best drum recordings I've ever gotten in terms of character....I will post it sometime later if I remember/.


-Christopher

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by darkwater

I was witness to a Metallica 5.1 mix and when the tapes came in, there were no less than 10 kick drum tracks. I kid you not. Several different mics and re-amps and samples triggered.

Try layering sounds to get what you want.

And lars still sounds like an Amateur! The guys been playing for 30 years now and he still can't play to a click track