1st February 2006
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#1 | | Gear addict
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 328
Thread Starter  | Can Experience and a Great Set of Ears Overcome Cheap Gear?
Here is the scenario:
A well established and respected audio engineer who has proven himself to make commercially viable records, in very big ultra-modern top of the line studios is hired to make a record.
The only thing is that it is to be tracked, mixed and mastered using a pro-sumer set up out of some ones house.(The ME will have to come over to the house later)
No pro level pre's or mics or converters. No large format console for mix-down. No outboard gear. No tape. No external summing. Only 1 great engineer possessing incredible ears and skill with a run of the mill pro-sumer daw and a few mics.
The band that he/she is to record is also top of the line. They fill stadiums and sell millions of records. They are also very talented,experienced and proficient musicians. The song-writing for this band is also top of the line.
The set up for the engineer to use would be the following:
DAW: a newer computer running any DAW program you want to use and $1000 worth of plug-ins.
Microphones: D112, sm-57, 2-421's, Josephson C-42(one pair), Soundelux U 195.
Pre's-Digimax 8 channel rig.
Monitors: KRK V8's, cheap boombox.
Here is the question: Could this engineer make a Grammy winning record with this basic set-up? Could an exceptional engineer's ears and skills overcome cheaper gear and make a remarkable album with great talent and song-writing? What do you guys /gals think?
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1st February 2006
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#2 | | Gear nut
Joined: Mar 2005 Location: London UK
Posts: 116
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Yes
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1st February 2006
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#3 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,826
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my personal opinion is yes, because amazing records have been made with far less.
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1st February 2006
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#4 | | Banned
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,306
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Without a doubt....9/10ths of the equation is the top notch band....
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1st February 2006
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#5 | | Gear addict
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 309
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Best song grammy -- Perhaps.
Grammy for best engineered record -- Perhaps not.
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1st February 2006
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#6 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 15,704
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by woods
Grammy for best engineered record -- Perhaps not.
| Unless of course you are engineering Ashlee Simpson, then all bets are off.  | |
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1st February 2006
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#7 | | Harmless Wacko
Joined: Dec 2002 Location: A prison cell with soffit mounts
Posts: 1,734
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Yep.
SM.
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1st February 2006
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#8 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2003 Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 3,872
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Have you ever heard Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska? http://www.tascam.com/Press/UserStor..._Nebraska.html
Great album.
Art, it turns out, has little to do with technology or engineering.
I would say a great artistic vision can overcome anything.  | |
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1st February 2006
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#9 | | Jai guru deva om
Joined: Feb 2003 Location: South Carolina
Posts: 12,910
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I would rather have talent in front of a Mr. Microphone than a bunch of wanna be ******s behind a Neumann.
War
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1st February 2006
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#10 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2005 Location: Brasil
Posts: 755
| Of course yes
Yes, because if this good ears ( and good taste )engineer will record a great music, all ITB will do the job.  
__________________
"Be not fond of the dull smoke-colored light from hell." - Tibetan Book of the Dead
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1st February 2006
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,826
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Sounds Great Unless of course you are engineering Ashlee Simpson, then all bets are off. |  ,
i see in my crystal ball... a seinfeld'ish character...
the Grammy ****.
No Grammy for you!!!
come back, ONE YEAR!!!
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1st February 2006
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#12 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2005 Location: FL
Posts: 1,543
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lol....
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1st February 2006
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#13 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jun 2002 Location: New York
Posts: 12,795
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Make it so! Sell it as a reality-show, maybe.
Clearly there would be no shortage of audio engineers ready to accept this challenge. I am sure we could find a bedroom studio somewhere if we looked hard enough. I will personally lend my own SM 57 if one can not be found.
Now all we need is that Stadium-filling, million-selling, great song-writing, proficient, talented and experienced band...
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1st February 2006
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#14 | | Gear Head
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 56
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definetly, I think capturing a great performance is half the battle.
good luck to him!
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1st February 2006
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#15 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 202
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by demel Here is the scenario:
A well established and respected audio engineer who has proven himself to make commercially viable records, in very big ultra-modern top of the line studios is hired to make a record.
The only thing is that it is to be tracked, mixed and mastered using a pro-sumer set up out of some ones house.(The ME will have to come over to the house later)
No pro level pre's or mics or converters. No large format console for mix-down. No outboard gear. No tape. No external summing. Only 1 great engineer possessing incredible ears and skill with a run of the mill pro-sumer daw and a few mics.
The band that he/she is to record is also top of the line. They fill stadiums and sell millions of records. They are also very talented,experienced and proficient musicians. The song-writing for this band is also top of the line.
The set up for the engineer to use would be the following:
DAW: a newer computer running any DAW program you want to use and $1000 worth of plug-ins.
Microphones: D112, sm-57, 2-421's, Josephson C-42(one pair), Soundelux U 195.
Pre's-Digimax 8 channel rig.
Monitors: KRK V8's, cheap boombox.
Here is the question: Could this engineer make a Grammy winning record with this basic set-up? Could an exceptional engineer's ears and skills overcome cheaper gear and make a remarkable album with great talent and song-writing? What do you guys /gals think? | You've made it too easy to say yes!
What about the same scenario but with a young inexperienced band with mediocre equipment who really can't play as well as they think they can. Yet they have tons of self belief and great songs.
I still say yes but your guy will have to work a lot harder! Despite the gear fetishism on this site, the biggest factor for great music is good writing. Everything else is icing. Youthful ignorance and ambition come in handy too.
And when has a Grammy signified a good record?
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1st February 2006
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#16 | | Banned
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,306
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by joeq
Now all we need is that Stadium-filling, million-selling, great song-writing, proficient, talented and experienced band...
| How about this band everyone's talking about, I think they're called Nickelback...
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1st February 2006
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#17 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2005 Location: FL
Posts: 1,543
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What's with the backsalsh with Nickelback ? They're not my fav band by a long shot but they're not that bad ....
__________________
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Dreamsongs Productions
Dreamsongs Publishing BMI
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" The dream don't come any closer on it's own, you have to go after it " Me...!
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1st February 2006
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#18 | | Banned
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,306
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by dreamsongs What's with the backsalsh with Nickelback ? They're not my fav band by a long shot but they're not that bad .... | I dunno (nickelback)..but I'm going to try to work them (nickelback) into every thread! Nickelback! | |
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1st February 2006
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#19 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jun 2004 Location: NYC
Posts: 14,971
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A great engineer recording great players with AT 20 series mics through a Behringer board into black face ADATS will produce a better sounding recording than a mediocre engineer recording mediocre players using the $20,000 signal chain of your choice.
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1st February 2006
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#20 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2005 Location: FL
Posts: 1,543
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by PRobb A great engineer recording great players with AT 20 series mics through a Behringer board into black face ADATS will produce a better sounding recording than a mediocre engineer recording mediocre players using the $20,000 signal chain of your choice. | True, but... a truly good engineer/producer wouldn't print a crappy performance to begin with. Assuming he is a genius at work, he will find a way to make a good record even out of mediocre musicians. Ever listened to the radio lately...?
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1st February 2006
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#21 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Jun 2004 Location: NYC
Posts: 14,971
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by dreamsongs True, but... a truly good engineer/producer wouldn't print a crappy performance to begin with. Assuming he is a genius at work, he will find a way to make a good record even out of mediocre musicians. Ever listened to the radio lately...? | Yeah. A lot of beautifully produced, great sounding crap.
Oops, sorry, we're back to talking about Nickleback.
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1st February 2006
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#22 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2005 Location: FL
Posts: 1,543
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Right, ...so I do rest my case.
I've seen some pretty mediocre live performances in the last 2 years. No engineer/Producer parachutes... so what I'm saying is, unless the musicians are truly awful, a top E/P will come in to save the day.
Nickleback is not the only band with a polished, incredibly arranged and good sounding turd...
Unfortunately, that's the cycle we're going through right now...
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1st February 2006
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#23 | | Gear addict
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 328
Thread Starter | Thanks for bringing up that song as I have never heard it.The only songs that I have ever really heard by Bruce Springsteen were Born in the USA and a few others. (which were not quite my cup of tea) But that song is very different.
There is some serious soul going on in a track like that.
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1st February 2006
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#24 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2005 Location: Racine, WI
Posts: 1,251
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Hey Warhead can I steal that quote:
"I would rather have talent in front of a Mr. Microphone than a bunch of wanna be ******s behind a Neumann".
Its freakin awesome!!!
PV
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