outboard de-esser vs de-esser plugins

[czarthp]

thoughts on outboard de-esser vs plugin de-esser. Would you prefer to track with a de-esser, or just mix with a plugin, or use an outboard de-esser to run vocals through and mix. Just wanting people opinions and which they prefer, and you think an outboard would sound better than a plugin.

[Chris Parsons]

I wouldn't chance tracking with a de-esser on the vocals, you could easily mess up a good take. De-essing, IMO, can be done very effectively in the DAW. Plugin de-essers also give you more control than most analog de-essers that I've seen.

-Chris Parsons

[kittonian]

It really depends on the end result you are searching for. There are some outstanding plug-in de-essers but IMHO nothing really compares to the SPL Auto-DeEsser which is of course outboard gear.

Unlike traditional de-essers that are frequency dependent compressors, the SPL Auto-DeEsser uses phase reversal on a specific frequency and allows you to adjust how much of the null is put into place. This retains an unmatched level of transparency when used correctly and most people wouldn't even know that a de-esser was needed.

I will say that I could describe it to you here all day but when you see/hear it in person on real material the results are nothing short of amazing. Both The Tonight Show and Conan use it and have since ditched their other de-essers in favor of the SPL.

[strewnshank]

The SPL unit really is cool. The one on the LilFreq is pretty great too. I'd say that the SPL is a more transparent device than the lil freq. The only ITB deesser that I've used is the stock digi one, which has it's place, but not on a lead vocal.

[Aisle 6]

ITB desser's are very good and the safer bet by far. Unfortunately for me, I sometimes really dig the way the Orban desser colours the signal. So I sometimes use it on the conservative side and add and ITB desser if required.

Hey Kittonian...thanks for the heads up about the SPL desser. I will give it a try. The ISA22o's desser works on this principle as well. Although I think that it makes the signal sound weird when it starts to work.

[Apollo Soul]

I haven't used the spl.

I certainly wouldn't track with one.

If you go the ITB route, all I can say is I've spent quite a bit of time working with many of them, and the EOISIS was well worth the time spent digging into it's features.

[payne104]

Originally Posted by strewnshank

The only ITB deesser that I've used is the stock digi one, which has it's place, but not on a lead vocal.

Ive used the stock digi de esser on lead vocal with good results. What don't you like about it for lead?

[kittonian]

Btw, I didn't say this in my original reply but I agree that at no time should you track with a De-Esser. De-Essing is a mix thing, not a tracking thing. That being said I don't EQ when tracking either and very rarely compress when tracking. I like to keep all my options open for the mix stage.

[strewnshank]

Originally Posted by payne104

Ive used the stock digi de esser on lead vocal with good results. What don't you like about it for lead?

I get way more bang for my buck with the SPL, that's all I meant. You can dig out more without killing the rest of the high end. That said, the digi one has a different feature set, with the HF and Listen options. They are all just tool in the box, but the SPL sounds way better than the digi when it kicks in.

[j-uk]

Is there really any point of using a de-esser nowadays?

On a moderate size mix with one lead and a bunch of bv's it takes me 20- 30 mins (depending on the time of day and coffee intake) to either gain change the offending esses in the lead or automate. It takes me another 20 to automate the gain for the bv bus......
I might do more automation as I mix but on average I rarely spend more than 45 minutes per song.

I still haven't come across a de-esser, hard ware or plug, that gives me the same amount of control as manual editing does.
Admittedly I sometimes use a plug de-esser but always automated.

I would never de-ess on the way in.

[pan60]

i have some friend that just love in the box de-essing, i like hardware myself.
i snagged one of Danes 531 Optical De-esser's and then snagged a second.
still working on a article, but i like these beauties.

XQP Home

[Aisle 6]

Originally Posted by kittonian

Btw, I didn't say this in my original reply but I agree that at no time should you track with a De-Esser. De-Essing is a mix thing, not a tracking thing. That being said I don't EQ when tracking either and very rarely compress when tracking. I like to keep all my options open for the mix stage.

Now Kittonian that is no fun at all. : )
Committing at tracking time is a part of the thrill of creativity. Granted it is not for everyone. I track the way I want it to sound in the mix and the mix is a clear picture in my head. De-essers included. ALthough I definitely stay on the lighter side with them and add any more during mixing.

[automatom]

I love the de-esser on my Portico II. I often have to dial in a bit of eq on my vox to brighten it up and happily put in a bit of de-essing to ease the sibilance when tracking. I've never heard a plug-in de-esser that's halfway as good.

That's not to say it doesn't exist, of course.

[danetate]

I use my XQP 531 during tracking, just like I EQ and compress while tracking. But then I am recording myself mostly and don't have to worry about offending the client : ).

That said, I think you would find the 531 easy to set without fear of overdoing it, if you are in favor of hardware de-essing.

[clivek]

SPL DeEsser plugin within cubase is very very good !!

I love Cubase's De-Esser.

[Valden]

Stand clear - zap - thread back to life.

I've been playing with the de-esser in my Portico II - it's certainly effective, but compensating with EQ is tricky while tracking, so I'm going to give the SPL ITB plugin a try.

Point is - it's at a reduced intro price until April 4. Given the good reviews here and my good results with the standard de-esser in Logic, I'm thinking it'll be a good buy.

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p..._de-esser.html

It'll also be my first software plugin purchase, so a question. Feel free to reply SPL dudes. Can I open the de-esser more than once in a project, as with standard plugins? Basic question I know, but, I don't know!

Thanks.

[Eldhrimnir]

The dbx 902 absolutely kills all plug-ins I've heard so far.

/D

[SPL]

@Valden
you can open as many instances in one project as your machine's capacity allows ... that goes for all SPL Analog Code Plug-ins - unlimited number of instances.

[Jack P]

Originally Posted by Eldhrimnir

The dbx 902 absolutely kills all plug-ins I've heard so far.

/D

Word...

[jonathan jetter]

the stock digi one kinda sucks IMO.

the Massey is excellent, cheap, and super-easy to use.

it does really well at taming >8k "sssssss," and it does REALLY well at only triggering in the right spots.

it doesn't do as well at taming 4k "chhhhhh" (no "notch" shape option). i usually end up clip gaining those, or audiosuite-ing an EQ notch.

[dabigfrog]

Originally Posted by Eldhrimnir

The dbx 902 absolutely kills all plug-ins I've heard so far.

/D

do you use the 902 while tracking or after track during mix?

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by Eldhrimnir

The dbx 902 absolutely kills all plug-ins I've heard so far.

/D

And the EL Lil Freq kills the 902. Most HW de-essers are terrible. I don't think I'd use anything other than these two.

I use really light de-essing when tracking vocals or acoustic guitar to DAW, then touch up any problem spots with a plugin. Just gets the track half-way there to start with and makes life easier at edit stage. If you are tracking a lot of sources that are prone to essiness, then it can get brittle and fatiguing pretty quickly.

[Hendyamps]

Originally Posted by Chris Parsons

I wouldn't chance tracking with a de-esser on the vocals, you could easily mess up a good take. De-essing, IMO, can be done very effectively in the DAW. Plugin de-essers also give you more control than most analog de-essers that I've seen.

-Chris Parsons

I would agree completely with the above quote...I would never use a deesser for tracking simply because I need to be in the mixing stage before I am willing to commit to something that cannot be undone and might destroy a vocal track come mix/ or master time.
I will say that really, any decent multiband compressor will do the job of deessing if you are careful.

I have even designed and built an optical tube based de-esser with a whole lot of options, and while I love the sound it imparts and often use it for deessing purposes during mixing, I am not willing to track with it, though I have no qualms about tracking with eq and compression. In my experience, tracking minor EQ and compression is something that makes mixing easier and quicker later, and doesn't bring with it the threat of really screwing something up that I will have trouble fixing later.

[Eldhrimnir]

Originally Posted by dabigfrog

do you use the 902 while tracking or after track during mix?

Either way. The 902 is good for many things in addition to just S's.

I have no problem with tracking with a de-esser if that's what's needed. I know when I like what I hear, so there's no point in postponing the inevitable for the mix session.
Fewer plugs -> me happy.

/D

[Eldhrimnir]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

And the EL Lil Freq kills the 902. Most HW de-essers are terrible. I don't think I'd use anything other than these two.

I use really light de-essing when tracking vocals or acoustic guitar to DAW, then touch up any problem spots with a plugin. Just gets the track half-way there to start with and makes life easier at edit stage. If you are tracking a lot of sources that are prone to essiness, then it can get brittle and fatiguing pretty quickly.

Totally agree.
I have no experience with the Lil Freq unfortunately, so I have no opinion there.

/D

[NathanEldred]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the Pendulum de-esser circuit, pretty amazing design by Greg IMO.

[Valden]

I bought the SPL de-esser plugin, at the intro price (expires 4 April), through Plugin Alliance. Easy install to Logic - no iLok - great!

I'm impressed with how it's taming problem esses with one of my vocalists and I'm still to try the dual band version that comes in the bundle.

I case anyone finds this when searching for Plugin Alliance confirmation of registration email, look in your junk folder. My OS-X Mail program sent it there - stoopid computer. Or operator.

[Johnkenn]

The newest spl one-knob de-esser is great.

[willylumplumps]

I prefer de-essing ITB. And I only de-ess offending spots. I never put a de-esser on the whole track.

I typically use the McDSP DE555. I find the offending "s" sound..Or sometimes a prominent "t"... and then blast it with the DE555 using Audiosuite.