your wisdom please

ramjet · 29th January 2006

hi all

i hope that i am posting in the right thread but here goes. i am recording a local band at great mates rates($150 AUS) per song and we are recording 8 songs. all has been going great and they told me they were happy with the 4 songs we have done already and these are already on sale for them. problem is that no longer like what i have done and to be truthful i didn't like what i had done with the drums so i offered to redo them so that i was happy, and so we did and they still aren't happy even after telling me to my face that they were happy.

anyway after talking to some other people behind my back about how crap i was they have decided that they want some one else to master there stuff, i prevoiusly tracked, mixed and matered. so any way the other guy came down and we worked the tracked together and delivered the product and they still aren't satisfied.

what should i do, i still have 4 songs to do. and to make matters worse it is not the band that dosn't like my job it is the father of the lead singer. and no he is not very musicaly inclined. he usually dosn't like what we do but can't explain what he dosn't like. every one else that i have recorded for the same deal loves what i do and say that for that much cash no one should complain.

i am trying to be diplomatic but i am about to burst i reckon.

any suggestion would be most appreciated, i don't want to be a prick as they are mates but they now want to re-record these four songs and not pay to do it as the father is saying that i did a bad job.

please help

cheers ramjet

denial · 29th January 2006

This is where the producer comes in. If you didn't produce the record and they didn't have a producer present during the sessions, then the artist/band has self produced the product and must take responsibility for the end product.

Having said that, it's still a pickle because you want clients to like your work. If you've done the best you can and they still don't like it, then maybe it's time to let go and let them take it somewhere else.

When other clients come to me saying that they didn't like the previous studio, before I take on the project, I listen to the songs and ask what they didn't like, to see if I aggree and if I could provide what they want.

Artists/bands with liittle experience in the studio usually aren't happy with their performance rather than the engineering but they usually blame the enginnering and sound instead.

An approach would be to ask if they are happy with their vocal performance, pitching, lyrics, melody and phrasing. Then I'd move onto the drums and ask how they felt with the groove, timing, etc. I bet you find that their performance is a bigger problem than the engineering or maybe both could be improved.

Let's face it, for $150 AUD a song, they're getting the recording at less than rehearsal rates and should be a little more understanding that all parties involved are learning and gaining valuable experience, and that my friend is really what their money is buying.

On the other hand it just may be that you get what you pay for.

All the best.

joaquin · 29th January 2006

I'd say, deliver whatever was paid, and get out of the deal. Do not let people that do not know what they want get on your nerves. If you did your best, and they are your friends, they'll understand. You'll probably see them coming back in a little while with a better attitude.

Cheers....................Joaquin.

Fletcher · 29th January 2006

You have 4 more songs to do to complete the agreement... suggest they invite their "non musical father" along to "produce" the sessions.

How many times has a football fan called the coach an idiot and said he would have done _____ and _____ and would have won the game. This is what you're running into with 'unhappy father'... except he doesn't know what he would have done to make it better.

Put him on the field. Have him 'coach the team'. If he's now in the position of not only being a part of the process but the 'go to guy' for all that is "wrong" then chances are pretty good that he'll shut the fukk up, or you'll get fired [and thusly out of the deal].

In the US [where they play 'gridiron football on Sunday] we have a ton of idiots like that who are called "Monday morning quarterbacks". How do you get them to shut up? Give them a uniform and put them on the field.

Once "Poppa" figures out that this shit is actually hard [and requires skills and knowledge he doesn't have!!] he'll go back to whatever the hell he does and leave y'all alone to make music... or will become an entirely egocentric putz who will reek havoc and make the band's life so miserable that they'll fire him and get on with their career [or fire you and let you get on with your life].

Anyway you look at it... by putting him in the 'drivers seat' instead of the 'backseat drivers seat' you'll have put him in the awkward postion of having the responsibility for the outcome...

Just a thought.

Best of luck with it.

denial · 29th January 2006

I believe "the artist is never happy and the art never finished".

Give 'em back half of what they've paid, thank them for the oppotunity and move on. It's not worth the stress. I don't think you'll please them no matter what you do.

ramjet · 29th January 2006

hi all

thanx for the advise. if i had the money to give back half i would but even though it is a meagre amount($600AUS) i don't have that and so i can't do that. so i think that fletcher has the right idea so htanx for that man.

cheers ramjet

Matt Grondin · 30th January 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramjet

what should i do, i still have 4 songs to do. and to make matters worse it is not the band that dosn't like my job it is the father of the lead singer. and no he is not very musicaly inclined. he usually dosn't like what we do but can't explain what he dosn't like. every one else that i have recorded for the same deal loves what i do and say that for that much cash no one should complain.

Sounds like Brian Wilson's dad... when are these idiots just going to learn to shut up and let the real artists do their thing. Is it an insecurity thing knowing that their children are more talented then they'll ever be, or are they just trying to ride their coattails to fame and fortune that they could never get on their own?

kats · 30th January 2006

Yeah but here's the deal on Fletchers plan. If they like the old stuff better than "papa's" stuff - charge them for it...again, since you comped it on the redo.

29th January 2006	#1
ramjet Gear addict Joined: Aug 2005 Location: ayr, north queensland, australia Posts: 401 Thread Starter	your wisdom please hi all i hope that i am posting in the right thread but here goes. i am recording a local band at great mates rates($150 AUS) per song and we are recording 8 songs. all has been going great and they told me they were happy with the 4 songs we have done already and these are already on sale for them. problem is that no longer like what i have done and to be truthful i didn't like what i had done with the drums so i offered to redo them so that i was happy, and so we did and they still aren't happy even after telling me to my face that they were happy. anyway after talking to some other people behind my back about how crap i was they have decided that they want some one else to master there stuff, i prevoiusly tracked, mixed and matered. so any way the other guy came down and we worked the tracked together and delivered the product and they still aren't satisfied. what should i do, i still have 4 songs to do. and to make matters worse it is not the band that dosn't like my job it is the father of the lead singer. and no he is not very musicaly inclined. he usually dosn't like what we do but can't explain what he dosn't like. every one else that i have recorded for the same deal loves what i do and say that for that much cash no one should complain. i am trying to be diplomatic but i am about to burst i reckon. any suggestion would be most appreciated, i don't want to be a prick as they are mates but they now want to re-record these four songs and not pay to do it as the father is saying that i did a bad job. please help cheers ramjet

29th January 2006	#2
denial Gear addict Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 493	This is where the producer comes in. If you didn't produce the record and they didn't have a producer present during the sessions, then the artist/band has self produced the product and must take responsibility for the end product. Having said that, it's still a pickle because you want clients to like your work. If you've done the best you can and they still don't like it, then maybe it's time to let go and let them take it somewhere else. When other clients come to me saying that they didn't like the previous studio, before I take on the project, I listen to the songs and ask what they didn't like, to see if I aggree and if I could provide what they want. Artists/bands with liittle experience in the studio usually aren't happy with their performance rather than the engineering but they usually blame the enginnering and sound instead. An approach would be to ask if they are happy with their vocal performance, pitching, lyrics, melody and phrasing. Then I'd move onto the drums and ask how they felt with the groove, timing, etc. I bet you find that their performance is a bigger problem than the engineering or maybe both could be improved. Let's face it, for $150 AUD a song, they're getting the recording at less than rehearsal rates and should be a little more understanding that all parties involved are learning and gaining valuable experience, and that my friend is really what their money is buying. On the other hand it just may be that you get what you pay for. All the best. __________________ "Fix it in the marketing"

29th January 2006	#4
Fletcher member no 666 Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 10,110	You have 4 more songs to do to complete the agreement... suggest they invite their "non musical father" along to "produce" the sessions. How many times has a football fan called the coach an idiot and said he would have done _____ and _____ and would have won the game. This is what you're running into with 'unhappy father'... except he doesn't know what he would have done to make it better. Put him on the field. Have him 'coach the team'. If he's now in the position of not only being a part of the process but the 'go to guy' for all that is "wrong" then chances are pretty good that he'll shut the fukk up, or you'll get fired [and thusly out of the deal]. In the US [where they play 'gridiron football on Sunday] we have a ton of idiots like that who are called "Monday morning quarterbacks". How do you get them to shut up? Give them a uniform and put them on the field. Once "Poppa" figures out that this shit is actually hard [and requires skills and knowledge he doesn't have!!] he'll go back to whatever the hell he does and leave y'all alone to make music... or will become an entirely egocentric putz who will reek havoc and make the band's life so miserable that they'll fire him and get on with their career [or fire you and let you get on with your life]. Anyway you look at it... by putting him in the 'drivers seat' instead of the 'backseat drivers seat' you'll have put him in the awkward postion of having the responsibility for the outcome... Just a thought. Best of luck with it. __________________ CN Fletcher Professional Affiliations: R/E/P Professional Recording Engineer and Producer forums - serious hobbyists welcome SoundPure.com mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33 We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light

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29th January 2006	#3
joaquin Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2004 Location: CHILE-Miami Posts: 1,199	I'd say, deliver whatever was paid, and get out of the deal. Do not let people that do not know what they want get on your nerves. If you did your best, and they are your friends, they'll understand. You'll probably see them coming back in a little while with a better attitude. Cheers....................Joaquin.

30th January 2006	#8
kats Lives for gear Joined: May 2005 Posts: 3,685	Yeah but here's the deal on Fletchers plan. If they like the old stuff better than "papa's" stuff - charge them for it...again, since you comped it on the redo.